Hi everyone. I tore apart my 68 442 in the hopes of finding a broadcast card... I did find (and almost missed it), a hog ringed tag tucked in the back seat! What I get from it is that it matches the cowl plate for the car. I would love to know if anybody can decipher the first line. What does it mean? Thanks!
Shawn

 

Looks like a tag used to direct the right seat to the right car.

I found (most of) the build sheet of my Chevelle hog-ringed into exactly the same location.
Take a close look while you're there and see if any other bits of paper are sticking out anywhere - you never know...

- Eric

 

From what I can see of your cowl tag, this is what I can decipher:
01C - your car was built in the 3rd week of January. Jan is the first month, C is the third week
68 - obviously the model year
33667 is further broken down as
3 = Oldsmobile division
36 = Cutlass with V8 engine
67 = Convertible

LAN - Lansing production car
250197 - production line sequence
940 - interior trim code = Black vinyl strato bucket seats
Y = Saffron Yellow
2 = Black vinyl top

 

Although the trim tag indicates your car is a Cutlass, the VIN should show that it is a 4-4-2 if the first numbers are 344678M------. For some reason, Lansing continued to use Cutlass indicators in their trim tags in '68 and '69, regardless of whether or not the car was a 4-4-2.

As well, since your car is a convertible the "2" on the trim line means "black convertible top".

Randy C.

 

Randy, the next comment is not directed at you, it is a "You gotta be kidding me" kind of statement directed to the concept of using 'incorrect' cowl tags.
Trim tag using 336 instead of 344? That makes no sense at all - how lazy could they have been in the tag tooling? IMO it would lend to dicreditation of the cars provenance. Sort of like: which one do you believe the cowl or VIN? And this was a common practice at Lansing?

I would love to see a pic of the VIN on this car.

 

Thats awesome you found the broadcast sheet for your car. I remember finding mine rolled up like a funny cigarette... Then found the second broadcast card in the front bucket seat (driver side).

 

Is the paper approx 1 3/4" X 4 1/4"? I found the same type, in the same place, completely intact but faded completely away. If so it's a Fisher body card. See below for my explanation on why it won't tell you much about whether the car is a 442 or W30




Allen,

You're the only one that doesn't seem to believe that a 336 cowl tag could still be a 344 VIN car. It actually makes perfect sense. The car was still a Cutlass body. Unlike 70 when the stripes started, there were no 442 specific attributes on a 68-69 body. The VIN wasn't installed until after it was on the assembly line. They probably didn't decide what bodies would become 442's until they were cued up to go down the line. It gave them a lot more flexiblity. BTW fenders were painted and pierced in the plant in Lansing so the 68 fender stripe option was added there too.


Here's thread from ROP where daveh explains how it worked. He also explains that until 1970 the body was not assigned a 442 designation until the car got to the plant in Lansing (for Lansing built cars only)

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...t=vin+cowl+tag

 

Really? Did I say I don't believe it could be a 442? Go back and read my post. I said I don't understand why they would use 2 different body identifications on the car. I also said I'd like to see the actual VIN. You offered a speculation about why you think it's right - do you hear me tearing that apart? I'll wait to see what others have to say. You might even be right.

I hardly think that means I'm a naysayer. Just want to see it, that's all. If they could match body styles for cowl and VIN for earlier and later years, I just was curious why 68/69 was so special this way.

BTW the deciphering I used for the cowl tag was from the 68 CSM. I did not see anything written in there that said anything about what you stated.

Maybe it is a 442. Show me the VIN.

EDIT: Ah, I see you edited it before I could post my reply. I'll go have a read there.

 

Looks like I missed some conversation... I will add a vin pic in a little bit. Just got home from the movies with my girls!

 

Hi guys. Didn't mean to start any speculation of it being a cutlass or a 442. I bought it as a 442, just didn't communicate that well in this post. My first worry before buying this car was why the cowl tag and vin didn't link up... I did lots of research and found what allyolds has a link to. definately a wierd thing that is unique to Lansing cars in 68 and part of 69. Have a great Christmas guys.
Shawn

 

Hey Shawn,
Glad your car turned out to be what you thought it was. Merry Christmas back to you and your family.

 

Allen,

Here are a few quotes from previous posts from the experts:

I'm really not trying to start an argument. I can tell you that if you find a 68 Lansing built 442 with a Lansing 442 cowl plate it's definitely a fake .

BTW I went back and edited this again. You guys both posted while I was compiling my list of quotes to backup my position as well as removing a wise *** remark I made about my own cowl tag

 

I think it would help to put some perspective on what *appears to us* to be an anomaly. First understand that sources like the Data plate and even the VIN were never developed and used to give collectors identification as to what the car was and what options it had on it. And more specifically, as Mike has been saying, the body tag has only to do with what *body-wise* is specific to that vehicle. So the only reason there is *anything* on a body tag that reveals an option that is on the car is because there is a specific *body* feature unique to that option. Often just a hole!
And what is relevant in this case is not only that the Cutlass and 442 bodies were alike, but that 1968 was the first year the 442 was a separate option. So in this case (with the same bodies) there was no functional need to add another body number.
Their concern was getting the cars out the door with the right equipment on them. And in this case, the Cutlass body was the "right equipment".
They had no concern whatsoever about matching any numbers per say.

Seems we somehow lose the perspective that what makes a part correct is part itself, not what number is on it. The part number is an aid to identifying a part. Despite what seems to be popular opinion, putting a correct part number on a part does not make the part what that number says it is!!!

 

Mike, there was never any intention to create an argument from either of us. Sorry if it seemed that way. I just have never seen this oddity before since I'm not heavily into 68/69 and don't have a Fisher Body Manual for those years, just access to the CSMs. That BFM would have been nice, as Joe P says....

I sincerely appreciate all the work you went through to provide documentation that I could read; I know how much time it takes to compile that stuff. FWIW, I would never have accused anyone of their car being a fake, I just didn't understand how the VIN and Cowl info were so differentiated back then.

As Kurt points out ^^^ and what I think you were also alluding to, one of the big distinctions was the 442 being a separate option and GM would just use the car as a 'part' for the later assembly of the option. I get where you guys are coming from now. Pass the eggnog??

 

So getting back to the hog ringed tag... First, for Allyolds(I think you were the one that asked), yes the back seat tag is 1.75 wide and what is left of it is 4 inches long. The first line on the paper tag is what I would like to know about... "-30-22-1" if it means anything at all. The second line means they put in the correctly identified car "56197" that's why I added a pic of cowl tag, third line shows strato buckets and saffron paint "667-940 Y2", the 4th line has "-29-U80". The "U80" is for single rear speaker. What is the "-29"?