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Well, for those of us that have been around awhile we have seen this 1964 442 Tahitian yellow convertible, with supposed factory auto transmission, for sale a couple times. There was a private seller in Green Bay, WI selling it back in 2014 or so. Now, again it is listed for sale in Las Vegas. I received a call from a good friend last night saying that he reached out to the ebay seller regarding authenticity. In the ad the seller makes mention of the original build sheet being found in the seat springs. So, my friend, who is literally a rocket scientist, asks to see proof of this build sheet. The seller sends him two files. One of the "build sheet", which turns out to be a window sticker, and the POP. The window sticker is torn in several places with pure white paper visible in the ripped areas. According to my friend paper yellows over time, especially paper from the 60s due to acid or kraft pulping processes that leave behind something called lignin. Way over my head, but this guy is wicked smart. So, he gets the files and looks at them. He recalls seeing this SAME window sticker posted on THIS website years ago. How convenient, he goes to his files and finds the window sticker from the forum which is EXACLTY the same as the one sent by the seller. Expect the sellers is all ripped and torn. Notice the lower left hand corner in both pictures. There is the EXACT same signature. the seller has ripped away the VIN number, and some of the options, but the options that are visible are the exactly same. My friend wanted everyone to be aware of this potential fraud. The VIN posted on the Ebay listing is also different from the one listed on the POP but this could be a transcribing error. Someone is going to great lengths to sell this car as an original 64 442 vert. buyer beware. There is also a youtube video of this car or one very similar from 2008. I've posted on this forum before. The youtube description states the car went through a restoration and was cloned as a 442.
Well, for those of us that have been around awhile we have seen this 1964 442 Tahitian yellow convertible, with supposed factory auto transmission, for sale a couple times.
Thanks, Joe. I missed the other thread. Regardless, I'm glad my buddy contacted the seller. Basically incriminated himself by sending the window sticker with claims as "original" documentation.
Thanks, Joe. I missed the other thread. Regardless, I'm glad my buddy contacted the seller. Basically incriminated himself by sending the window sticker with claims as "original" documentation.
I've seen the alleged "documentation" on this car, thanks to another member here. Suffice to say that it is total crap. Other than a "window sticker" with the VIN and any reference to AT conveniently torn away, there is nothing that is any form of factory or dealership documentation. There is a copy of a fax of a copy of an alleged letter from Oldsmobile Historical Society in 2011 that discusses some OTHER car. There are printouts of website info. There is a supposed email from the owner (also from 2011) where he pretty much says he can't prove the car is real. And there's a printout of the 1964 442 production breakout that correctly shows that 436 of the 2999 cars were Cutlass convertibles, with some handwritten note that claims only 100 of the 436 were 442s. HUH?!
Of course, the fact that this car hasn't sold in the many years it has been for sale simply proves the seller isn't fooling anyone.
Keener, if you look at those 2 window stickers they are not copies of each other.
I went through this exercise over the past few days and emailed Joe my findings. There is no verifiable documentation that proves this car is real. The vin on the POP vs the vin from the Olds History center doc do not match. The history center doc shows 824m184744, for a Jade Green car vs the vin on the plate as a 824m18717 so clearly 2 different cars. This is a very misrepresented car being sold on hearsay and vague recollected memories and assumptions. I hope whoever buys it gets a kiss. The last email statement from the salesman selling this car, "I am only 24 and have been studying classics for only 6 months. From my understanding cars equipped with the B09 package dated before 67 were 442s again I could be wrong".
I'll add that I have no idea what the "X" is that the Olds History Center document refers to. An "X" in column 1 indicates power windows. I'm pretty sure the "X" in column 2 of the cowl tag just means floor shift AT, as seen on any Cutlass that year. In any case, when someone writes "believed to be", that's code for "I really don't know". We DO know that 2L indicates floor shift manual trans (as would be correct for a 64 442), and G in column 2 indicates bucket seats (as on any Cutlass that year). As I noted, an X in column 2 would mean AT floor shift, so you couldn't have both 2L and 2X on the same car. And the "SW" believed to be paint is really 5W, meaning deluxe seat belts. Of course, NONE of this applies to the yellow car in the ad.
Keener, if you look at those 2 window stickers they are not copies of each other.
They sure look the same to me. just ripped up. all the prices are the same, the faded signature in the bottom left is the same. The faded purple color is the same. Not arguing, just stating my opinion.
Regarding the olds history center document. This was for a Jade Green 64 442 vert bought off ebay in 2002 or 2003. I recall reading the whole story and recall this exact document. I may have a copy saved somewhere. The letter states body "LA 5729" which does not coincide with what is on this yellow clone ("LA-5846").
Joe, you are incorrect, the olds history letter is talking about the POP, not the body tag. Notice the reference in the letter to "S4". This is stated on the POP and is referring to the high compression 330 engine. The "X" in the letter is again referring to what is on the POP. The "X" has nothing to do with the car being a 442, it is referring to the build date of March.
Last edited by Keener; May 29th, 2017 at 01:43 PM.
don't be confused. the POP in the photos above is different than the one for the jade green vert mentioned in the olds history leytter. The yellow car, like the jade green car, was built in March (evidenced by the "X" on the POP), but the yellow car was delivered in April of 1964 (evidenced on the POP shown in pics above), while the Jade Green car discussed in the olds history letter was delivered in March of 64.
Last edited by Keener; May 29th, 2017 at 01:33 PM.
I'll add that I have no idea what the "X" is that the Olds History Center document refers to. An "X" in column 1 indicates power windows. I'm pretty sure the "X" in column 2 of the cowl tag just means floor shift AT, as seen on any Cutlass that year. In any case, when someone writes "believed to be", that's code for "I really don't know". We DO know that 2L indicates floor shift manual trans (as would be correct for a 64 442), and G in column 2 indicates bucket seats (as on any Cutlass that year). As I noted, an X in column 2 would mean AT floor shift, so you couldn't have both 2L and 2X on the same car. And the "SW" believed to be paint is really 5W, meaning deluxe seat belts. Of course, NONE of this applies to the yellow car in the ad.
The "X" refers to a March build date.
The P-O-P build date code letters for 1964 and 1965 F85s are as follows:
January - Z
February - Y
March - X
April - W
May - V
June - T
July - S
August - R
September - P
October - N
November - L
December - K
Last edited by Keener; May 29th, 2017 at 01:41 PM.
May 29th, 2017, 08:40 AM
