442

Question: How much value (if any) is lost in a collectible car if the original color paint is not used in the restoration? The car in question was originally painted with a special order (no paint code on cowl tag) paint sourced from another manufacturer. I know this from talking with the several previous owners, but I have no documentation to back it up. The car has been repainted once in the original color which I don't care for. I would like to re-paint it a color of my choice, but not at the expense of devaluing the car.

Thanks for any info,
Richard S.

Nickyloves442s

Being that its a special order Plum crazy w30 drop top, its probably the only one like it in the world. Super rare and super unique. I have seen your car elsewhere on the web and didnt know the details about it untill I recently joined CO. Mistaked it for a donk project.....I think the color is what makes it. If I hit the power ball, I would love to entertain an offer!

jaunty75

The standard thinking on this is that if you repaint the car in another color that was also available at the time the car was new, you'll probably not affect the value too much. While not exactly the same thing, in judged competitions, this is the stance taken. As stock condition is always the standard against which cars are judged, the color of the car must have been one you could have seen in the showroom in order not to lose points.

On the other hand, and as others will likely point out, it's your car, and you ought to do what you want with it. If you want to paint it day-glo green, go right ahead. While there's certainly an expense and effort involved, if a later owner, or you yourself, wanted to put the car back to original condition, it can be repainted to an original color.

oldsmobiledave

Simple solution....if you want a color change pick one of the other special order colors that would have also carried the -- paint code on your cowl tag....there are a few nice ones to choose from & no one will call you on it.

442

Thanks guys, I've been waiting 5 years for these replies! Just kidding, even though the original post is from 2007, I still haven't painted the car so the opinions are much appreciated. I'm still on the fence on the paint but leaning towards keeping it the original color when I finally get to that point.

Richard.

m455sx

original color for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oldcutlass

That is too funny, it is a very old post. Hey Richard, is the rest of your car original?

442

Hi oldcutlass,
The non original / non numbers matching pieces are things like distributor, carburetor and the interior (not in the car when purchased). Drive train is all original to the car with OW transmission, 323 posi, original F heads, aluminum intake etc. The engine still had the stock bore when I had it rebuilt (it was stuck from sitting in the guys garage for 20 years). It also had no exhaust on it, I plan to put a Gardner exhaust on it one of these days... I like the color of your Cutlass, looks good with the white top. I am still leaning towards original color m455sx, not my favorite but probably one of a kind!

gearheads78

if that is the original color I would never change it

Diego

Richard, so what makes you think your car was originally Plum Crazy? There's a story there - possibly true, possibly not - and if you have properly researched your car and taken photos of old paint hiding in obscure places, it would be a travesty to paint it another color.

Also, since (most of the time) the extra-cost colors received "--" on the data plate, does yours have something to show that it couldn't be confused with an Aegean Aqua, Sebring Yellow, Rallye Red, or "that gold" car?

442

I am certainly leaning that way gearheads78, I would love to paint it black but I feel it is very unique the way it came. Diego, I was very doubtful of the color claim made by the PO, but since the car stayed local to my area since new, I was able to document the ownership history and all 3 previous owners including the owner of the dealership confirmed the color. In addition, a mechanic who worked at the dealership at the time says he saw the car come in to the dealership and had first hand knowledge of how it was ordered. I did get pictures of places on the car which would not have been repainted such as under the vinyl wrap on the windshield frame. The car is in primer now but I had the shop leave a section of the windshield frame in original paint. Also had them leave the underside of the deck lid original. Maybe I can get pictures with one of those spectrophotometer type cameras that matches paint at some point. Link to picture of frame below:

https://picasaweb.google.com/rsheare...19877342461330

oldcutlass

Having grown up in the 60's and 70's I would say it is pretty rare to have a Plum Crazy Olds. The color can be made to work, and it sure is hell a great conversation piece.

My cars color upon purchase was Fucia with a white top.

stevengerard

It is your car paint it the color you like most. But.... It is a Plum Crazy Purple W30 convertible, I would never be able to paint it any other color than the purple. It is not only most likely a one of one olds it is surely a one of a kind W30. I remember following a few threads about your car, seems too likely not to be true. What's the color behind the door panels, rarely is a car ever completely stripped of all old paint especially under the carpet and behind door panels. (oops just read your response about window frame)

P.S. I agree painting a car any color from the same year will only slightly affect value, sometimes it will help (there is a reason they call it "resale red"). But as a one of a kind W30 convertible Plumb Crazy Purple probably adds a ton of money to the value of it.

droptopron

I'd ask the guy if he would sign a letter for you stating that. It probably won't mean much to a prospective buyer but it could mean something.

Diego

Get it notarized. :twocents:

FWIW, I want to offer a differing opinion on special-order colors and what is considered correct: The car was born with one color. If you paint it any color you want, even though it's a special-order car, then it lacks the authenticity of what it was new. We still don't know enough about how Oldsmobile used data plates and why it seems most of the extra-cost colors received "--" codes but those colors were RPO, not special-order. Do you think an owner with a car born Rallye Red would have license to paint it any color he wanted and claim it was correct just because the data plate had two dashes (or one dash if vinyl top or ragtop)?

In the end, it's your car, so do what you want, but a car with an interesting lineage should be preserved as such in my mind, and I am certainly glad you are leaning towards it at this point.

GAOldsman

I am a fan of Plum Crazy Purple (see the coupe in my signature) and I am a believer of keeping the special ones original as well, so there you go Just my .02

m455sx

OK if you paint it original color, what color W-30 stripes did it have from the factory?

Diego

From a Mopar POV, he could have white, black, or gold.

11971four4two

Wwod

442

Thanks for all the responses, sounds like original is the way to go. I do have signed statements from all owners regarding their knowledge of the cars history, and the mechanic even had his notarized. The previous owners told me the car came with white stripes, white top, black interior and white seats. (TR 977 interior code on cowl tag). The first registered owner was a school teacher, she told me the kids at school nick-named the car the purple people eater. Her registration was still in the glove box when I bought the car and I was able to look her up with that info. She also told me she thought the car was used in a parade or two (with Miss Virginia in it) when the dealership owned it but I have not been able to verify this. The dealership kept the car as a demo for approx. 4000 miles before selling it to her. I do have other pictures of what is most likely the original paint where door panels would go and behind the rear tail pieces at the back of the car. Maybe the Plum Crazy will grow on me...

gearheads78

If you really don't like the color why not sell it and use the money to buy one a color you like?

stevengerard

when you're done fixin er up I'll trade you mine

ThePackRat

Can't say I would have ever had the thought of having a Plum Crazy 442 .....

But that lil' teaser avatar & story behind your car makes me want to see MORE of it.

I say keep the color.

442

I don't really dislike the color, just not my favorite. It looks good on the right Mopar or Hot Rod, just seems strange on an Oldsmobile.

As mentioned above, I can always sell and get another car. Steven, serious or not, thats a tempting offer. Thats a nice looking car you have!

I will try to get my restoration pictures organized and post a link to them in the near future. I need to make some progress on this car, too many self inflicted distractions slowing me down!

Diego

Is the original owner still alive?

What about the original selling dealer?

69HO43

From a buyer's perspective, it isn't worth anything more to me than normal just because there's a "- -" on the cowl tag. Now, if you had a build sheet or other original documents to prove the original color was purple, then that would mean something.

Otherwise, if you painted it sebring yellow for example, how would I know it wasn't the "original" color? Documentation means everything on one-off or unusual options.

Diego

But if he doesn't have documentation, he is able to piece together a history that can be the next best thing. Perhaps a buyer may not be willing to spend extra on a history like that, but the pedigree of the car is nonetheless preserved.

Olds Dad

I've had my '71 convertible since 1987 - was (incorrectly) painted Porsche Guards Red for years and I absolutely loved it. When I did a frame off in the early 90's, I made the decision to go back to the original "Bittersweet" color - a color I thought (at the time) was awful - but I felt it was the right thing to do..

Now, I'm very glad I did the original color - I think it's very unique, a nice color, and - of course - original.

Point is, sometimes the color you wouldn't choose first out of the book turns out to be a great choice.

That being said, unless you plan to turn this car over for a profit (an effort we mostly know is in vain), paint it what you like and be done.

69HO43

Depends on what history could be cobbled together. Does anyone know for sure, right now, that the car was purple from the factory? I'm not advocating against the car at all. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

Otherwise, I agree with Olds Dad. Don't worry about it, paint it the color you want if you don't like the current color and ENJOY the car how you see fit. If you're worried about resale value down the road, you're doing this hobby for the wrong reasons.

droptopron

That is an interesting tid bit. It's odd that they would order a special color to keep on the lot. That would seem to be a customer's preference. I wonder if someone ordered it that way & then renegged on the deal.

stevengerard

I certainly would think twice about it, one odd colored W30 for one highly optioned one.

One thing to think about, your car most likely would have come with argent wheels on it, of course who knows how it came from the factory since it may have come with plum purple. The reason I suggest thinking about the argent is that right now that is a LOT of purple. Many of the 70 - 72 cars look good with color coded SSIIIs but I think many of the colors are set off better with the argent rims. I think, and its just my opinion, that your car would look much better with Argent rims against the purple body.

BTW Olds Dad's bittersweet 71 above is a perfect example of a color that looks perfect with SSIIIs that mach the body (to me anyway - beautiful car!!!).

RAMBOW

Without hard evidence (build sheet, or order form, or other physical documentation) who's to say what color it really was.

With that in mind, its actually liberating having that -- as the paint code.
You can paint it whatever FACTORY color (or known special order color) from that year that you like, and you will likely not be dinged at all come selling time.

Keeping it purple on the other hand, whihc may or may not be correct, while cool, will still LIMIT the number of interested parties come sell time.

Just my $.02

Build it for you to enjoy, not the next guy.

442

The previous owners including the dealer are alive and well. I keep in touch with a couple of them, never know when a piece of original documentation or pictures might show up.

While original factory/dealer docs are ideal, I think the documented history with signatures is the next best thing. Has anyone had any luck getting registration history on a car from their local DMV type agencies? I was told no way by Virginia DMV but that was 4 years ago so may have to try again.

The wheels were argent originally, the PO had them painted with the car, he also had the side stripes omitted and the incorrect stripes put on the deck lid. Definitely will correct all that.

The dealership owner said he had the car ordered through a GM paint program that let him choose any color he wanted for $50.00 more his cost. An additional benefit was that it circumvented his allotment of 442s as long as he ordered through this program. He said the car was not ordered for a specific customer though.

Has anyone come across a tag similar to the one I have attached? It was in the car when I bought it but I have no idea if it is factory or something else. Thanks again for all the suggestions / information!

Diego

I'll raise you two cents!

Again, I don't believe having a "--" gives you license to paint it whatever factory color. Being the owner of a car gives you license, and that's about it. Otherwise, the possible pedigree of the car becomes lost and then the car becomes just another Rallye Red ragtop.

allyolds68

I know a lot of people have read your posts about this car here but I like this article because it really runs through all the effort you've gone through to verify the authenticity of the car. I think you have one of the best "undocumented" cars out there.

http://wmachineregistry.com/index.ph...zy-purple.html

69HO43

You should be so lucky as to know the original dealership/owners to help in your search. It's probably likely that not many dealers took advantage of the $50 paint change program.

That tag sure looks like it was from 1970...is there any information on the tag other than the printed fill in the blanks? But then again, wouldn't that be the standard tag with the -- body color choice?

It's kinda funny how weird stuff like this NEVER seems to have documention saved because back then, who knew? Most people tend to just chuck the old contracts and order forms after they pay off the car during spring cleanings, etc. Thus, no records seem to remain.

442

Thanks Mike, I actually enjoy tracking the history of the car, and the previous owners seem to enjoy talking about it.

Unfortunately there is no writing on the red tag 69HO43, its just a blank tag that may or may not be a GM paint / body tag. I was hoping an ex Olds employee or other person familiar with the assembly process could shed some light if they see the posts.

Richard.

Diego

Did the dealership sell other brands?

442

I don't think the dealer (Phillips Oldsmobile) sold other brands at the time the car was new, but not 100% sure on that.

Richard.

Diego

It would be interesting to find out. Personally I was wondering if they sold a Mopar product too.

My initial thoughts were that it's mighty strange for a dealer to order a special-order car like that, just for its own use or as a demo. If what you say indeed is true, I think it's something worth researching more. It'll pay off later when are your resources have passed on.