help me save my Grandfathers 442

Old May 3rd, 2013, 01:18 PM
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It is a shame what has happened, the real car guys, or the ones that want it for sentimental purposes, versus the auto investors that run the prices up.
Maybe use the 57 chevy for a bargaining chip, if you or your Dad has a claim to that as well. Don't detail the 442 for the apprasal if you want it to be low as possible.
Sorry for your loss. Bet Grandad was an interesting guy.
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 08:43 PM
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It is kind of like asking "how far is up". About the only conclusion is that it is not a $90,000 - $100,000 car.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 01:57 AM
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For the purpose of keeping the car in the family since IT SHOULD BE, worth more in sentimental value than actual cash value, why not just use the figure that most here are saying it's worth and go with it. The members here probably know more about that car than any appraiser would who will likely charge $400-$500 for a full blown documented appraisel which means nothing really. Many times appraisels are for insurance purposes, and can be escalated for the purpose of good comprehensive coverage. Tell the family to settle up as $20,000 as the value and work with it. That should be fair for everyone involved.

Just remember, the value of anything is what someone is willing and able to pay for it, not what the appraiser says it's worth.

Last edited by hotrodpc; May 5th, 2013 at 07:30 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 02:26 AM
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grandfathers 442

Sorry for your loss,i agree its not a six figure value.I'm thinking 30k ish,in todays market who knows?Its what the market will bear.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 07:27 AM
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i bet the probate attorney ends up with the car
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Old May 4th, 2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chrismcgurk View Post
i bet the probate attorney ends up with the car
That's usually the only winner in a probate case is the attorneys.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 02:26 PM
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Thanks to every one here for your opinions and support. maybe with this new cash value it will at least get to stay in the family...

I would offer to buy it myself but don't have the means at the moment. (Just graduated college, have a good job but have a wedding in October and need to get out of my tiny apartment and into a house)

Last edited by cole9953; May 5th, 2013 at 03:35 PM.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 03:47 PM
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Well, try and let everyone know that you are interested and would like to keep it in the family, just maybe you'll end up with it.
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Old May 4th, 2013, 04:26 PM
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No doubt that is a great car & I don't blame you for trying to obtain it or at least keep it in the family.

The reality of things must prevail @ some point - legit car w/ enough documentation to verify it's origin & mediocre (no offense intended) pedigree. Good, original condition. Less than desirable color, auto trans limit value. The whole engine thing kicks the car's value right in the gut - it stinks of improper replacement of key parts, possibly the whole engine being "wrong".

I would love to own that car but it would be in the aforementioned $20k-30k range. IMO MAYBE $20k if nobody could come up with a good enough story on the engine situation, upwards of $30k if my skepticism could be allayed with documentation or the engine number was correct & someone just changed the induction parts. If the engine question turns out to be simply a misunderstanding & it is the original engine w/ all proper major parts it might cozy up near $40k in an auction environment provided the right people are participating.

Good luck to you, I hope the family doesn't get hooked on the TV auction crack pipe & even if they do everyone needs to understand that this particular car is not the one from TV - it is not a documented (or fabricated) W30 car that brings the upper 5 figures & sometimes 6 figures.

Last edited by bccan; May 5th, 2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:17 PM
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But new update. The carwas not races by the dealership as I said before. It was speced out and built, for my grandfather. Story is he went to the dealership and did not want the OAI or red wheel liners but did specify the hottest engine you make. After he took delivery he found the plugs and wires were fried every 1,000-1500 miles. So he took it back to the dealership and they said it was normal due to the engine he selected. And was apparently some sort of "factory built race engine and not for highway use"....
Which explains why he had to wave the warranty at purchase.

Anybody ever heard of something like this? What were the available engine options if you were specing out a new car at the dealership in 1970?
Base
W-30
Race?

Last edited by cole9953; May 6th, 2013 at 07:58 AM.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:33 PM
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i hear those stories at car shows,and shake my head

your grandfather stretched it a bit,and that is putting it mildly.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:45 PM
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Okay if it is in fact a W30, there would be tell-tale signs of such. 1) The dealership would do most anything for a sale. 2) It is possible that it was ordered and delivered as a W30 and the dealership removed the red inner fenders and W25 hood 3) It is possible to be W30 stripe delete 4) I don't think it is possible to have it delivered from the factory without the W30 badges but the dealership could've changed the fenders or ?

Now that said there are ways to tell what you have.

1) Look at the transmission tag on the passenger's side does it say OW with the O on the left side of the tag and W on the right side of the tag?

2) Does it have an aluminum intake? If so does it say OLDSMOBILE-455 on it?

3) There are more ways to tell but let's see what you come up with from here.

As far as burning up plugs and wires every 1,000 - 1,500 miles, not something I've ever heard of before nor believe to be accurate. Now with the OAI system, it is not recommended for highway use. Now I have seen the literature on this but it wasn't due to burning up plugs nor wires.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 03:45 PM
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in next couple weekends i'm going to drive out there and pull numbers of the block and carb and the option tag under the hood. as weel as on the 57. i know the 57 is not a numbers matching original but still need to check it out.

Edit: and check for the things you mentioned here^^^^
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Old May 5th, 2013, 06:26 PM
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option tag under the hood
The cowl tag, which will only give a couple of options at the most, and will not tell you if it is a W-30.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by cole9953 View Post
in next couple weekends i'm going to drive out there and pull numbers of the block and carb and the option tag under the hood. as weel as on the 57. i know the 57 is not a numbers matching original but still need to check it out.

Edit: and check for the things you mentioned here^^^^
Make a list of everything before you go and bring it with you. How are you getting your information regarding the history of the car, is it hearsay through the family? Get all the information off the motor, the cowl tag, the carb, etc. Theres a lot of good members here, they'll be sure to help you out.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 07:45 AM
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things my grand father has told me in the past, and hearsay from family. also he has a file somewhere with every document on the car since order/purchase. so that should help once i find it
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Old May 6th, 2013, 09:13 AM
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any Markings on the rear end i should look for? it has a factory posi.
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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GAOldsman View Post
Okay if it is in fact a W30, there would be tell-tale signs of such. 1) The dealership would do most anything for a sale. 2) It is possible that it was ordered and delivered as a W30 and the dealership removed the red inner fenders and W25 hood 3) It is possible to be W30 stripe delete 4) I don't think it is possible to have it delivered from the factory without the W30 badges but the dealership could've changed the fenders or ?

Now that said there are ways to tell what you have.

1) Look at the transmission tag on the passenger's side does it say OW with the O on the left side of the tag and W on the right side of the tag?

2) Does it have an aluminum intake? If so does it say OLDSMOBILE-455 on it?

3) There are more ways to tell but let's see what you come up with from here.

As far as burning up plugs and wires every 1,000 - 1,500 miles, not something I've ever heard of before nor believe to be accurate. Now with the OAI system, it is not recommended for highway use. Now I have seen the literature on this but it wasn't due to burning up plugs nor wires.

Don't forget that he has the broadcast card (that shows that it was not a W30).
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Old May 7th, 2013, 06:53 PM
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How did I miss not one but two posts of the broadcast card? Yup no W30
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Old May 7th, 2013, 07:07 PM
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Im asking this because I don't know. Was the K66 electronic ignition offered in 70? I read an article long ago about the K66 in Vettes, saying it was such a hot ignition that just street driving one would burn up a set of plugs in about 4 hours! Is this true with these ignitions, is it possible this car has it and that's why its frying the plugs and wires?
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Old May 7th, 2013, 09:58 PM
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Was the K66 electronic ignition offered in 70?
No.
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Old May 8th, 2013, 12:42 PM
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Old May 8th, 2013, 12:48 PM
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That looks like a pretty good comparison vehicle.

It has fewer miles and is probably in slightly better condition, and auction prices tend to run high (especially when you deduct the auction house's vig), so I would deduct a bit from that price for yours.

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Old May 8th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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It's a very good comparison. Take out transportation costs and buyer's premium and you're low twenties
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Old May 8th, 2013, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
The fiberglass "ram air" (not an Olds term) hood. W-29 option. OAI is Outside Air Induction
Ya mean W-25?

Another blue-striped car has been found!
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Old May 8th, 2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Diego View Post
Ya mean W-25?
Yeah, Sorry Diego, 70-72's aren't exactly my strong point
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Old May 8th, 2013, 01:51 PM
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Another Azure NC car, wonder how many sold in the east and/or south east because of the NC Tarheels? It is a decent comparison. Both nice original cars that many of us would love to own but I agree as much as I like the azure blue with blue stripes more people like resale red or black!
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Old May 8th, 2013, 09:09 PM
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Same color combo of my SX of a few decades ago, and a nice looking car.
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Old May 9th, 2013, 07:44 AM
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So i dont think this ever got answered

is there and engine option other than the base 455 and the w-30 455 also exactly what is the difference between these two?

everything on this car is straight from the factory/dealership, is there any possibility that something rare is on the car?
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Old May 9th, 2013, 08:12 AM
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The difference between the two is a rated 5 hp wink wink. The W30 got a different carb, cam, distributor, heads (F), intake, hood, air cleaner etc. That car even though not a W30 is very desirable because it represents the pinnacle of Oldsmobile muscle cars before they started reducing the horsepower output. Is there something rare on this car? Yes, the entire car being that they produced less than 20,000 442s in 1970. Which is less than they produced in either of these years respectively '65, '66, '67, '68 and '69
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Old May 9th, 2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cole9953 View Post
So i dont think this ever got answered

is there and engine option other than the base 455 and the w-30 455 also exactly what is the difference between these two?

everything on this car is straight from the factory/dealership, is there any possibility that something rare is on the car?
There were only two engines available in the 442 in 70. Like GA Oldsman said above, they were only "rated" at a difference of 5 hp. There was no other engine available for the 442.

I'd imagine that the dealership changed a few things on your Grandpa's car but they wouldn't be "factory" changes. Maybe they added the K66 ignition system, who knows. If they wouldn't warranty it maybe they changed the cam. If you can find the purchase paperwork that will answer a few questions.

There is nothing I see that's particularily rare. It's got a few options that I think a lot of poeple probably ordered

Last edited by allyolds68; May 9th, 2013 at 08:38 AM.
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Old May 9th, 2013, 09:00 AM
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Cole, I don't want to be a wet blanket, but I don't think you're going to find anything "special" or "unique" on this car (other than the fact that it is a '70 442, which is pretty special).

When my grandfather was alive, he talked about a lot of very "special" and "unique" things that he had, and the famous or influential people he had gotten them from, and told me about how he'd leave them to me one day.
When he passed on and I went through his things, it was mostly a bunch of junk, at least as far as monetary value.
He played up the qualities of every tool, every old thing he had, but the reality was different.
He grew up with nothing, and worked like a dog for the things he had, and I think that everything was special to him, so he made it sound special to the rest of us.

I suspect the story is similar with your grandfather. He had some cool stuff, but he wanted it to be even cooler to a bunch of little kids, so he made up stories.
The car is special to you because of your grandfather, but I suspect that to a buyer, it would be fairly ordinary.

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Old May 9th, 2013, 11:05 AM
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With 72 posts, I think you have about all the info your are going to get. Let us know how you come out. Good luck.
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Old May 9th, 2013, 12:39 PM
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I personally love that color combo and would prefer it over red or black. I hope to get a 442 sometime in the future myself. I really hope you find a way to keep that car. Good luck
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Old May 9th, 2013, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by allyolds68 View Post
There were only two engines available in the 442 in 70.
True .... and not so true.

The fact is that, while there may have been only two engines on the option sheet, each of those options actually included at least two different engines: one for manual transmission cars and one for automatic-eqiupped cars. So that's four engines total, when considering major engine components like heads, pistons, and camshafts. We can nitpick further if you want to start talking about A/C .....
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Old May 9th, 2013, 08:45 PM
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Off topic, but Black Gold, you're in W. Michigan, are you going to the spring dust-off at the Gilmore Car museum Saturday?
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Old May 9th, 2013, 10:24 PM
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Cole,

I am in Houston. What part of Houston are you in? I'm Northeast, Humble area. I'd like to help you figure out what you've got...

Steve
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Old May 10th, 2013, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ah64pilot View Post
Cole,

I am in Houston. What part of Houston are you in? I'm Northeast, Humble area. I'd like to help you figure out what you've got...

Steve
Iím in Seabrook (near Kemah) but the car is in Louisiana, not sure if it will be making the journey to Houston or not.
Good news though my dad told me one of my aunts wants to keep the car (not the best news, but still good). Maybe she will want to keep it in my dadís garage since she doesnít really have anywhere to keep it.
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Old May 10th, 2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by cole9953 View Post
Iím in Seabrook (near Kemah) but the car is in Louisiana, not sure if it will be making the journey to Houston or not.
Good news though my dad told me one of my aunts wants to keep the car (not the best news, but still good). Maybe she will want to keep it in my dadís garage since she doesnít really have anywhere to keep it.
Wouldn't that be nice lol! Well good, glad it's going to stay in the family!
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Old May 24th, 2013, 09:00 AM
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so ill be driving out to see the car this weekend.

can tell me where different casting marks can be found?

1. the block
2.the heads
3. intake mani
4. carb
5. tranny
6. rear end
7. where in the bay is the body tag.
8. any thing else i should look for in order find out exactly what this car has?
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