mike b

need some help on this. i own a matching #'s 69 camaro ss 396 and bought my son a 68 cutlass s convertible when he was 14. he backed in into a tree at 16 (he's 22 now) and i have been wanted an a body convertible since then. a trip to crusin the coast this fall really got me interested again. my camaro is a 4 speed and i need a comfortable ride with auto and a drop top. been really looking at 68 or 69 cutlass/442 or buick skylark/gs. got a call today from a fellow car guy and there is one on 4 miles away from me. i live in mississippi and nothing is 4 miles away from me. anyway, it's a 69 that i used to see around the area some, but i think he hardly drives it anymore which it why he is selling it. it's parked at his deer camp. the car looks like a true 442, has all the embles, exhast cut outs on the back bumper, 14" super stock ii wheels and a console that lists 3 speeds for the auto. the vin was extremly hard the read, but it looked like 34467M368602 - a 442!.
the trim tag reads:
ST 69 3367LAN 368508
which made me think maybe the vin might be a fake after the ratty vin plate, but my reseach says a lot of the 69 442's came with cutlass trim tag codes. is the fisher body # suppose the match the last numbers on the vin? i can check the title to see if i'm reading the vin correctly. the vin may end in 508 instead of 602.
the second line reads:
TR 933 80 C PNT
blue buckets with a blue top, which seems to check. the interior is black now, but i coulkd see the bucket backs had been sprayed and there was blue underneath. the 80 throws me, i thought it might be a 50 for a white car with a blue top and blue interior, but it does not look like a 50, more like an 80. the car is maroon now and i could see in the door jam it may have been white before the repaint. my son's 68 was white with a white top and blue interior.
the last line reads:
04E
which would be the 5th week in April. from what i've read the trim tag should be 34467 instead of the 33667 by then. any thoughts?
when i opened the hood, i was a liitle disappointed. the motor is gold with a black air cleaner. i was hoping for a bronze motor with a red air cleaner and be the matching number 400. the casting number is 396021F which is a 455? the F is not a plain stick type, more elaborate with vertical end pieces on the top and middle horzonatal portions. i could not see anthing on the oil filler tube. does this mean the motor has been changed out?
where else sould i look to get more info on the motor?
the car is all there although it needs new paint, a few minor bumps fixed (scrape on rear finder, dings alond the body sides, rust line at the end edge of the trunk where it is bubbling up preetty good and what looks like a bullet hole in the hood. car needs a clean up, but was not extremely rusty underneath besides the exhast. the interior looks fairly good except for thr carpet and the vinyl back seat dor panel tops where the top goes up and down and the boot covers them. did not crank it yet. really more than i wanted to do. anybody have a range of what's it's worth? thanks for all your help.

mike b

here's some pics....
IMG_5035.jpg

IMG_5050.jpg

IMG_5051.jpg

IMG_5055.jpg

IMG_5049.jpg

Rickman48

I'd figure between $4-7k and deduct from there! Depends what he's asking for what he thinks he has! And how deep your pockets are!
Is it a real 442 or a clone? All original?
If it runs, how does it idle, how does it drive?[feel, handle?] does it smoke? Responsive? Trans shift well? Top go up and down effortlessly? Brakes?
If you feel you've got to do everything, [engine, trans, body, paint, top, interior, suspension] I'd be on the low side of that figure!
Especially if it doesn't run, or over 100k on miles!

jaunty75

From your photo, you can see that there is actually a "9" before the M. Otherwise, this VIN doesn't have enough digits/letters.

Anyway, yes, the VIN 344679M368602 does translate to a 1969 Olds 442 convertible built at Lansing, Michigan.


The numbers after "LAN" are just the body sequence number for the Lansing plant, and there is no relationship between this number and the VIN. The part after "ST" is the year and the first few digits of the VIN (at least, that what it is on my '67). Unfortunately, we really can't read very well anything in your two photos of the cowl tag. Sometimes it helps to put a piece of paper over it and do a pencil rubbing.


According to this page

http://tech.classicoldsmobile.com/36.shtml

that casting number is correct for a 455 of your year, but apparently the same casting number was used for '68 to '72 455 engines, so it doesn't pinpoint the exact year. However, according to that same page, a '69 455 engine should be red. A gold-colored engine would be a 400, which is actually the correct engine for a '69 442 as the 400 was the only factory-installed engine available for that car that year.

So you seem to have a bit of a conundrum. Your engine's casting number indicates a 455, but its color indicates a 400, and a 400 is what your car should have if it has its original engine. It appears that your car has an engine that is different from the one installed at the factory, although it is correct for that era, and then that engine was painted to look like a factory-installed engine.

mike b

i did leave the 9 out in the vin. sorry. from my research the correct engine would be a 400 with a casting of 396026 G and be bronze in color. the 350 and down were gold. from what i saw at 442.com:
F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif).
F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical
and a base serif.
i'd guess the 455 in this car is a 70-72 since it has the fancy F vs the stick type. the owner says it runs and drives fine and wants $12. i have not even cranked it up since we are so far apart. i was thinking $8-9 if it had the matching number 400. now i think i'll pass and look for a 68. i used to like thr 70 better, but i fell in love with the 68 when we had it. here is some pics of the 69...
IMG_4995.jpg

IMG_5001.jpg

IMG_5009.jpg

IMG_5033.jpg

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Jamesbo

I passed on the same color/year drop top last year @ 12.

mike b

here some before and after of the 68
CASDGDAZ.jpg

CAELQLSH.jpg

CAANS9E7.jpg

CA01LU46.jpg

CAY1WVYR.jpg

rcorrigan5

Mike,
From what I can tell, your assessment is correct thus far. I see what you mean about the "80" for the color code - it sure looks like an 80 but it is probably a 50.
To tell what model year your engine is from, you would need to check the VIN deriviative, which is stamped onto a raised pad on the left (driver) forward side of the engine block. It's hard to see because it's just past the power steering bracket on the block just under the head. You will probably have to use a mirror and a flashlight and even clean the area first so it is clear of any dirt and oil. A good starting point is to go straight down from the letter designation of the head on the driver side.
The VIN deriviative should consist of 2 numbers, a letter, and then 6 numbers. The number just before the letter will tell you what model year the engine came from (i.e., "0" = 1970, "1" = 1971, and "2" = 1972.
Hope this helps some.
Randy C.

joe_padavano

Yeah, don't believe everything you read there. The only definitive way to tell the year of the motor (well, at least the year of the block) is to read the VIN derivative. As for the 33667... cowl tag vs. the 34467... VIN, this is well documented in the Fisher Body Manual for 1968 and 1969. Many (in fact most) 68-69 442s received Cutlass cowl tags. My 1969 H/O has a 33687... cowl tag.

4fortwo

For what it's worth, the gold painted engine would be a 350 the 400 would be bronze.

rocketraider

If numbers matching is important to you, you're probably better off not to get this car because the 455's presence would always bug you- never mind it's a far better engine than the 68-9 G block 400. You just thought early 396 Chevys were bad about slinging rods thru the block....

80 is Powder Blue, which was a Toronado-only color in 69. That indicates this car was probably a special order of some type. Possibly the color was expanded to the rest of the lineup late in the year as they did with Nugget Gold which was a special-order Toronado-exclusive color until about May 1969 when they expanded it to the F-body.

Powder Blue (a light Carolina blue) would work with 933 blue vinyl Strato-Bucket interior and blue convertible top.

mike b

thanks, the 80 does make sense now, just doesn't look like a 50. as far as matching numbers, it's really not that important to me other than i would think the car would be worth more with the matching 400 in it. i just don't want to pay the higher price for a matching number car. $12k seems high for the condition the car is in. it would need a new repaint with little bumps and brusies fixed and the rust on the trunk lid. the interior needs small things, new carpet, new vinyl around the upper armrest panels, etc. and i have not even cranked it up yet. still for a true 442 with the prices i've seen lately if the mechanics were ok, i might not be too upside down in it. 8-9 just sounds so much better than 12.

allyolds68

Your research is correct. Lansing built 68 & 69 442's had cutlass trim tags.

The VIN will not match the trim tag unless except by coincidence (I've yet to see that)

MN71W30

It looks like my step brothers old car The trunk lid was damaged so we put a cutlass deck lid on it. He bought it in 1983 and sold it in 1996?

spiderjason

My thought to you is take $8,000 or $9,000 CASH and stick it in his face and say this is all I have do you want to sale!!!!!

mike b

i lloked at it again today. was suppose to drive it yesterday, but could not get the guy. think he is pretty well off and the friend that told me about it said he was already offered $10k, so i don't know if flashing $9K cash would get it might be worth a try. just needs alot of TLC. i did look at the heads and it is a big G followed by a smaller A (both upper case). 442.com says:
Ga '72 455 80 409100 W-30's, manual 442's used big valves.
while year one states all '72 442 had the G a. This matching the F block casting so it might be a 72 455. resto book says 8.5 comp with 270 net hp, 340 gross hp, 460 ft. lb. sounds like it sould burn some tires on regular gas if it was running right. what do you think of this engine?
i did miss out on a 68 442 on ebay. it was just listed for a day and then taken off (sold). he had it on 442.com classified but i missed it. i called, didn't sound like a bad deal. think i would rather have a 68 to match my old one, but i could live with a 69.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=110612118029

4fortwo

In today's economy you can do a lot better for 10K. The '72 was an underpowered appeasement of the regulators. Keep looking and find a 69 or 70. They are what 442 was about, low profile power.
'71 and on were just trying to live up to a bygone era's credentials.

jaunty75

Great line!

joe_padavano

ALL 1972 455s used GA heads. What the FAQ should say is that "ONLY W-30s and manual trans 442s used the big valves."

mike b

no offense, but where would you suggest to look?
i live in mississippi so there are very few cars for sale locally. i hit ebay, trader on line, cars.com and other internet sites. i try to check the classifies on some of the olds and buick boards, but rarely see a convertible less for $10k that doesn't needed very much work or is just a regular cutlass or skylark. seems like with the advent of tv auctions, everybody thinks their car is worth twice or three times as much as i do. i'd like to find a nice car, doesn't have to be matching number would prefer a true 442 or gs, but it doesn't have to be. i'd pay about $15k for a nice one that needs little work, but they seem to be going for $10k more than that. any suggestions would be appricated.

Dan K

Try craigslist. Would suggest using a search engine such as http://www.searchtempest.com, as you can set the parameters such as search terms (year model etc) + distance. Will then search all the big + little city CL's with listings.

Can be a bit aggravating as lots of people mis-spell things, or use abbreviations, so my search for a

"1968 oldsmobile convertible" would be

"(68|1968) (olds|oldsmobile|cutlass|442) (conv|convert|convertible|convertable)"

to try and pick up all the ads.

Here a few '68s converts that I came up doing a search today "nationwide"

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/2069438955.html
http://eastky.craigslist.org/cto/2073207902.html
http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/2023540018.html
http://roanoke.craigslist.org/cto/2003032836.html
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/cto/2020485748.html
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/2072570430.html

Didn't list them all but U get the idea - ads running the whole gamut with the occasional good deal - Dan

jaunty75

Wow. Check the asking price on this one! Did he type one too many zeros?

Dan K

Yeah - I did a triple-take when I saw that

Like I said, you get the whole gamut rangng from cars in pieces to people with a pipe dream on their price... but patience usually yields a good deal.

I picked up this '71 cutlass CV for $4K two years ago on CL (have since sold)..





(pics look better then the car did in real life... but still a good deal - same owner since '75)

mike b

thanks Dan K. i never could figure out how to search craig's list like that. looks like you got a killer deal for $4K, i only paid $5 for the white 8 we had. i liked the 2 black ones priced within reason, but i can be patient and hope to get the right one. i'll just keep drivin the camaro (lucy is feeling left out with all this talk of oldsmobiles so i posted a few pics of her..) keep me in mind if somebody runs across a killer deal on a convertible. thanks again.
CACDUNSD.jpg

CAIIU082.jpg

CAK5YFWP.jpg

mike b

while i was searching tempest, it asked me if i wanted to try http://www.autotempest.com/
has links to cl plus ebay, cars.com and many others.

spiderjason

If you don't mind me asking what did you sale the 71 cutlass for?

Dan K

Around $6500. Had some fun making a video of it with my kids. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pssGwlmskU