NastyNate6695

Hey i just bought a 69 442 holiday coupe and was hoping you guys could help me out with a few questions.

Since the car does not have the original motor just a turbo 400 that is going with it i am trying to find a 455. I believe i found one and the guy want $400 for it. It came out of a 74 Delta 88.. Now since i do not know a thing about oldsmobile (the reason i joined this site) i was hoping you guys could help me out. Will the motor out of the 74 bolt up to turbo 400 or did the bolt pattern change? Also is a 455 out of a Delta 88 able to go into a my car? I am doing this build or my father and this is my first car pre 91 besides a cj7 so my information is limited. Also is there anything i should look for when i go to look at this motor.. Any typical problems that they had... And is the price right..(i believe it is)?

Also the car is coming with a 10 bolt rear. Will this be fine or do i need to upgrade to a 12 bolt instead. I read on here that the 10 bolts have clips in them and a clip eliminator kit should be installed. Would the Delta 88 that this guy took the motor out of have a 12 bolt and if so will it fit under the car without any major mods?

Also someone wanted me to post pics of the car.. its rough but still worth it in my opinion. its coming out of upstate NY and i am having it shipped down here to Daytona at the end of January beginning of February
Also i tried to search and see if you guys had a page to decode the vins but no luck really. Any help would be greatly appreciated. 3448791130948

Plus any recommendations on where to start restoring and what to look out for are openly appreciated. I am doing this project not for myself but for my dad who has always wanted a 442 or a gto.. and has always said when her retires he would start one... well its been 5 years now and if i do not give him a finished project he will never get around to doing one himself.
69442.jpg

69442d.jpg

69442c.jpg

69442b.jpg

69442a.jpg

J-(Chicago)

The delta 88 motor will swap over. You may need to buy a pair of notched valve covers to clear the brake booster and ac box if either motor does not come with them.

The delta 88 rear should physically go under the cutlass, but it is wider, and the drive shaft will need to be modified in order to run the double cardan joint for the pinion yoke.

If he has the rear for sale cheap, i'd get it just because.
Also, the 69 should have a type o rear end with bolt in axles. 12 bolt cover covering a 10 bolt ring gear. So technically it's a 10 bolt rear.

The delta rear should be a bolt in axle Actual 12 bolt. Stronger rear end, but hard to find steep gearing for it.

allyolds68

Errr, I've never heard of anyone putting a Delta rear under an A-body.

The 10 bolt is fine if you're not going to race it or beat the crap out of it. I've got a Brian Trick 3.42 10 bolt behind my 455 four speed.

Coming from someone who restored a car from the Northeast, please don't take this the wrong way but.....

I know you're already commited to this car but you've got an incredible amount of work there. The doors are shot (I see what looks like more doors in the background), the rockers look like they have rust which is not normal for an a-body. The fenders have typical rust, the hood is shot, etc......

On the plus side it looks like a pretty complete car.

A lot of 68-69 parts are available (more all the time) but if I ever do it again I'll spend a couple extra grand for a car that as far away from here as possible (& my car came from MA which is better than here)

Allan R

3448791130948
3 = Olds
44 = 442 V8
87 = 2 door Holiday coupe
9 = model year 1969
1 = Production plant (Oshawa Ontario, Canada)
130948 = line production sequence.

NOW PAY ATTENTION TO THIS NEXT BIT OF INFORMATION:
Because your car was built in Canada, the GM historical records for it still exist! If you want to know where the car was sold, what options, how many were exported/imported etc give GM Historical Services an email, fax or call. The fellow who maintains these records is George Zapora. The phone number is 1 905 440 7697. Mon-Fri 0800-5:00 EST.
The website is: http://vintagevehicleservices.com/options.html clik the link for 64 and newer; it will open a request form you can fill out and fax/mail to George. Docuementation cost 73.45 You lucked out. There is NO USA documentation that exists like this unless you find the build sheet in the car.

Allan R

Post a pic of the cowl tag and we can provide even more info about the car.

NastyNate6695

First off
@ J -- thank you for the info it sets my mind a little more at ease when i go to look tomorrow. Ill probably just keep the rear end that is under the car. You guys cleared up another question i had. I do believe it is a 12 bolt cover 10 bolt rear. Because i read somewhere that all the ones that came out of canada were 12 bolt. The seller listed it as a 10 bolt but he must have meant the inside bolt pattern.

@allyolds68--I completely understand man.. i was born and raised in Erie PA. A city known for lake effect snow and road salt. That is one of the reasons i moved to florida. But on the bright side I picked up 2 clean doors and a clean hood for $550 so that will save me some time. Ive done body work before and have no problem fixing whats wrong. I could not pass this car up though. IT was in my price range and i had a family member who lived 45mins away who could store it in a barn until i can arranged to have it shipped down here. plus the pieces for the interior are all there and that to me is the hardest part.

@Allan R---thanks for the info. I will gladly pull up the documentation and add it to the file I'm putting together for my father when i give him the car.

Here is a pic of the cowl tag. I appreciate all the help so far. Im really going to need it by the end of Jan. though.
69442e.jpg

70Post

Being a Canadian built '69 442 I believe your car would have come with a Chevy c-clip type 12 bolt rear.

The 71 up type 10 bolt rears (I think they're referred to as a "Corporate design"...also called 8.5" rears) are good rearends and will withstand a lot of abuse. Readily available for reasonable $ I believe and plenty of aftermarket parts made.

Allan R

So Cool! Look at that large MADE IN CANADA stamping. Told ya it was made up here! Anyway, yes this is a real 442
ST69 - 1969 model year
3 - Olds
44 - 442
87 - 2 door hoiday coupe
OS - Oshawa Production
535393 - body production sequence (this is the fisher body number)
TR930 - Black vinyl interior with A51 Strato bucket seats
69 - Should be the paint code for Platinum - lower body color (your car is definitely painted a different color)
2 - Black vinyl roof - upper body color
B10 - Cannot find info on B10 My guess is it is the vinyl roof molding.
2A - Built 1st week of February (2 = month, A = week of month)
C50 - Rear window defogger
C60 - Manual air conditioning
D55 - Front compartment console (makes sense since you have A51 Strato buckets)
M40 - Th400 Transmission

Jamesbo

69 is really fine.

NastyNate6695

What exactly is "manual air conditioning"? Isnt that just rolling the windows down? ...and what is "front compartment console" is that the center console between the two bucket seats?

I really appreciate the information guys...Ill have to see what the silver looks like. My business partner and i were debating on what color to paint it and whether or not to keep the black vinyl top or just paint that area after soda blasting the whole thing. Any opinions?

Also i bought the motor for it today. A 1973 delta 88 455. It has all the accessories except a starter but that is no biggie. The guy told me its a blue motor... no idea what that means....But on the good side for an extra $100 he threw in a brand new edlebrock alum. intake. so i cant wait to start tearing into this thing. Unfortunately i to rebuild a chevy 6.5 turbo liter diesel motor first....oh and before i forget the turbo 400 that came in the car should be a short shaft right? So the drive shaft should be the right length when i bolt everything together...right?

Lady72nRob71

Welcome Nate! Looks like you have quite a project here, but we all are proud of your decision to restore it. And being a real 442 it deserves it! I have seen guys restore cars that were rusted out to the looks of a turkey carcass (or a wishbone after it was sandblasted), so this one will be much easier.

If you are going to restore it to its original condition, you might consider refitting the vinyl roof for historical reasons. Just do it better than the factory did (like painting the metal under it.) Once done, you will seldome store it in the rain.
If you decide to go custom on the car, I would leave it off.

Adjusting the A/C with little levers with your fingers.
Some of the big cars (Toronado, 88) had auto temp control.

You got it!

Means it is painted blue... Many of the 455s were painted blue from the factory.

Keep this thread updated as you go - will be fun to see the transportation transformation!

501Paratrooper

Welcome to CO.
The TH400's in 69 442's had a short tail. Good luck on your resto!

NastyNate6695

@ Lady72nrob71--thanks for the info.. yea i will definitely paint the entire car before i put the vinyl on. I can't believe the factory wouldnt have done this.. I mean you figure it would have saved them time instead of having to pain lines or mask off. I am expecting rust on the car and some panels to be eaten up.. but it appears that the car has sat around longer then it was driven on the rode with the salt so in that sense im lucky. Im trying not to go custom since the car is not for me to keep and any modifications my father wants he can make after i give it to him in as close as stock condition as i can get. Now granted i will mess with the motor the best i can..after all i have to make sure it runs fine before i give it him.

As far as painting the motor blue i cant say im a fan.. reminds me too much of Ford. I will probably try to go with the "Olds Gold" look i have seen around the internet. In fact if anyone can direct me to some information on what parts olds painted what that would be great.. I keep seeing orange/red inner fenders mentioned whats up with that?

@501 paratrooper- Thank you that sets my mind at ease and frees up part of the budget plan.


I will need to get a front and rear bumper because the back is rusted and the front is gone. ive seen them as cheap as $350 and as high as $450 I was warned about the cheap ones on ebay being from china and not fitting properly.. anyone have a recommendation on what to look out for/avoid but still be reasonably priced?
Also whats up with the grill on these things... ive seen two different types the "Black Egg crate" and the "Chrome Cheese Grader" which option went with what or is there not a difference?

allyolds68

The engine should be Bronze not gold. Gold was the color for a 350.

Red Inner fenders were on W30's

Lady72nRob71

The 455 blue is a tasteful light blue, so should be different enough from the Phords.

To this day I am wondering why the 350s were gold and not the 455s. It certainly did not follow the nowdays marketing trend of "putting gold color on anything makes it our top of the line model"....

Jamesbo

The 455 in the 69 H/O was red. MHO, I don't like the blue. Here's a pic of the one that went into my 69 Vista Cruiser.

I think you may be refering to the grillls as Cheeese grader or egg crates

The egg crate is for later model. The cheese grader is what you're look'in for.Fusicks as repos but I'm sure sum memebrs may have some in varying degrees of condition. I may have a few with repaired tabs.

Allan R

Looks like you got the answers to your questions about the options.

re: the color code for platinum silver. Here's a website that shows the color. If you scroll down just a bit, you will see a couple examples of what the color looks like on a camaro and a vette. BTW, when I was looking at the pics you posted, it looks a lot like there's original paint showing on the left/right filler panels below the headlights.
http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/colorcod...sname=Platinum Silver. It's actually the color I put on my 72 because I liked it better than code 14 pewter.

Also, if you look at the front A pillars, I believe you can see remnants of the original black vinyl roof?

One more thing about the front bumper you are looking for? Be careful about who you buy from. The 69 and 70 front bumpers look a lot alike but are different in the heights of the center where the hood tooth is. I'm hoping your hood is repairable - it has a fairly large rust out just above the nose tooth. If it's too far gone I think there may still be some of these floating around.

NastyNate6695

@ jamesbo--red huh..? that works for me.. not a big fan of the blue either. I'll have to compare the bronze to the red and see which one looks better in the engine bay. They also painted the brake booster bronze didnt they...? I have seen a couple of cars with the brake booster and master cylinder this color and was a little confused..

@Allan R--Yes I've had a lot of my questions answered. A buddy and i noticed the remnants of the vinyl top at first we thought it was rust but after closer inspection realized what it was. As far as the grill goes though. you are telling me the one in the pics that the car has on it now is wrong for that year? As far as the hood. yea i know its bad but the guy sold me another to go with the car and this one is solid so im not to worried about that. I appreciate the heads up on the bumper info.

I did get an early Christmas present last night... came home from the shop after installing a heater core on one of my chevy's and found my Year one catalog had arrived..So excited.. although the prices on some of the parts had me a little sick...but thats the pain in restoration i guess. Although they didnt have any Vinyl roof replacements at least not that i can remember. I ll have to look through it again.

Hope everyone is enjoying their holiday..whatever it is you do be safe.

NastyNate6695

oh and that silver does look good..take that with 2 black racing stripes up the hood and a black vinyl top and it should be looking sharp. If the old man doesnt like it he can change it to whatever he wants.

Lady72nRob71

Be sure to check Rockauto, Fusicks, the Parts Place, Legendary auto interiors, and OPG for parts also. YO has the highest prices of all.

NastyNate6695

yea i have ordered a bunch of others theirs is the first to arrive.

MX442

Just for the record, a 69 442 should have a bronze engine. Enjoy your project, it will be a challenging one, but rewarding.

501Paratrooper

x2

MDchanic

Nate, to follow up on what Mike, James, and MX said,
in 1969, 350s were gold, 400s were bronze, and 455s were red.

The '69 442 came with a 400, the '69 Hurst Olds ("HO"), came with a 455, but it was a sort of a low-production, special-order non-option, not a RPO.

The right color for a '69 442 motor would be bronze, and there would be no obvious visual difference between a 455 and a 400.

Toronado 455s were always blue metallic, and all 455s began to be blue metallic in 1970, and around 1975 all Olds motors began to be painted GM "corporate blue."

- Eric

Allan R

???? How did you figure that? I didn't say anything about the grills. I DID say you can see remnants of what looks to be the original paint on the lower filler panels.... I've seen 69 bumpers being sold as 70's and vice versa. Also seen 69 front clips on 70 cars & vice versa. Your grills look just fine to me - they can probably be refinished to look new if you have the patience and time.

NastyNate6695

sorry allan James commented on the grill.. got my responses messed up..

gearheads78

I fixed it for you but FYI is you put a single space between pictures they will not go off to the side like you had them.

NastyNate6695

So after dropping a motor into a corvette i had some time to pull the 455 out and take a look at it. I took some pictures.. but was wondering if you guys could tell me anything significant about it. Or if there was anything out of place... I did get an aluminum intake from edlebrock with it, although that is sitting on the self for now. My one buddy told me to be careful when installing it because not all the vacuum lines may be able to plumb through and i might have to reroute some.. Now granted he had a bad experience with is torino but that cant be the majority of the cases....can it?

As far as the the 455 motor goes i have tried to look at the FAQ section but got a little confused on the whole decoding thing.
I started on the drivers side and worked my way back and around.

Behind the alternator and on the head is a "J"
On the closest exhaust manifold to that is an"X" followed by this shaggy175.jpg
on the down turn of the manifolds there is a three digit number "236"
On the heads in the middle is an "X"
On the back of the valve heads closest to the driver is a three digit number "298"
Just below the distributor is a large "8" and below the 8 is "193"
In between the flywheel and the motor on the passengers side is a "F8"
On the downturn of the exhaust manifold on the passengers side.shaggy183-2.jpg
On the valve heads near the flywheel passengers side is a "J"
On the valve heads in the center there is a split number "411" on one side and "783" on the other.. a bolt splits them.
On the very front of the exhaust manifold is a "Z"
and then finally behind the water pump i have what appears to be "8060" but i cant tell from the rust and the pic.. it was late and i was tired.

If you guys need more info let me know if not ill leave you with the entire thing strapped down in the shop waiting its turn for the engine stand.
shaggy190.jpg
shaggy191.jpg

Jamesbo

The grill looks good from what I can tell. FWIW, the 442 were flat black with a silverish leading edge while the 69 H/O was a solid flat black.

Not real sure what you ment about the egg carton vs. cheese grader.

BTW, nice Canoe.

NastyNate6695

Thanks james when not paddling the intercoastal it keeps the other motors dust free.. as far as the grills go i am considering the one i have on there now an egg crate while i have seen some that are vertical and chromed.. so i wasnt sure what the difference was

Jamesbo

There are 2 69 grills designs black mesh for the 442 and H/O and vertical bars for the Cutlass and Vista

allyolds68

The motor is a low compression, J Headed motor. If you're going to freshen it up anyway I'd look for a set of C, E, G, or Ga heads for it. You can pick a set up needing a rebuild for less than $150. If you're going to try and use it as is then it will work fine. Just won't have the power of a 68-72 motor. A 74 block should still have the threaded boss for a Z-bar should you ever want to convert it to a standard. The crank probably won't be drilled for an input shaft so, if you were going to rebuild it you could do that work for less than $100. If you're going to keep the auto then skip the additional expense.

NastyNate6695

@james--thanks for the answer.. at least i now know the difference.
@allyolds68--Im a firm believer that for any car to be considered a muscle car it must be standard, this way the driver feels the motor and has to pay more attention to his car. But this one is an automatic and im going to keep it that way. Im trying to keep it as original as i can afford and just polishing up the shifter and rebuilding the turbo 400 or at least having it inspected is my best bet.

As far as the motor is concerned i will be rebuilding it. I already have an alum. intake, i will be saving up for alum. valve heads. I will also be doing crank pistons and cam while im in there and upgrading the exhaust. I just havent figured out what setup i would like to run. I want my dad to be able to drive it without it ripping the tires off and sucking all the gas out of the tank,, but i also want him to be able to let it run when he wants too. Also i was reading an article about installing oil restrictor's


http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tec...ild/index.html

is this important for this motor or is this only if you are really going to build it up for racing?

Del70

I never realized that the Oshawa Ca plant built the Cutlass/442 model in 68. Did that plant also build the 1970 Cutlass?. Anyone know how many 68, 69, 70 Cutlass 2 Doors were built in that plant?.

marxjunk

I know for a fact they built 70 GTOs and Judges in 70 at Oshawa, theres a few documented floating around

They built Skylarks til 70 also..

i dont know about the Cutlass, but i'd bet they where avail in 70...Ive just never seen one...
.
In 71 the rules for importing cars changed in Canada, before then, they had rules in place that X amount of cars had to built in Canada, a way to save their economy...

All a-bodys built in Oshawa had chevelle 12 bolts, even lowley 6 cylinders, and 4 doors, because the supply point was New York..ive personally pulled 4 chevelle 12 bolts out of 68-69 Canada built 4 door skylarks...they where a nice surprise, now i look for made in Canada trim tags..lol...

all GMs built in Canada have production records, so, if some one has reviewed the records, the amount of cars built is known.

Allan R

You get that documentation through GM Vintage services in Canada - care of George Zapora. Price has gone up to around 73.00, probably go up again in 2012

We also invented HOCKEY, are the worlds best CURLERS, and are incredibly modest

Del70

thanks the info. My 70 is Lansing built....it would have been nice if we had records for the US built units too.

NastyNate6695

I thought the swede's were the best Curlers..?