Hello all. I am a newbie here, and I am looking for a bit of help and information if anyone is willing.

In June I purchased a 68 442 W30 at an estate auction. The father (owner of the car) passed away, and was in the middle of restoring the car. Not sure if he was doing a full restore, or if he was just trying to get it back to drive-able nice condition. Here are some pictures of the car as it sits now. https://plus.google.com/photos/10326...32304591622017

In any event, I am trying to figure out some things with the car. For one, is it a true W30? I am seeing pretty much everything there that would indicate it's a W30, but there are a few issues. For one, there is no data plate. It was apparently removed during painting. However, I do have the Owner Protection Plan booklet that has the metal stamp in the back of it. I am thinking this information may tell me a bit about the originals on the car. Is that information the same as what is on the data plate, or are they different?

I have also read a few places that faking a W30 is difficult, and expensive, and not that common? This is something I wouldn't know, but have read it a few times doing research on the car. So that certainly made me feel a little better about possibly having a fake. But maybe that is wishful thinking.

I am thinking this may not be the original engine in the car. It has "C" heads stamped 394548. But then I found this information at 442.com

C '67 - '69 425 80 394548 A/C '68 H/O's. Toro's and 442's got big.
455 valves. Rumored to flow the best of all BB
heads. Can still be found.

The engine is stamped 396026 G and found this on 442.com

G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine.

Did they put "C" heads on a 400 engine? Or is this most likely something done post production?

Is there a VIN on the engine somewhere that I can try to match to the car?

The VIN on the car appears to make it at least a 442 which is 344778MXXXXXX

Any thought on what I have here would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I am not able to keep the car, and am looking to sell it. Any ballpark guesses on what this car might be worth?

Thanks much.

 

Your Engine should have D heads on it.

 

So "D" heads were only put on a W30 car? I guess what I am trying to figure out is if the car is possibly a W30 with a different motor, or possibly different heads.

 

yes they did put the vin on 68 on the engine. it will be on a small pad just belowe the drivers side head. it will start with 3m8 if it is a the original motor and then it will contain the last six numbers of the vin number. 3 stand for oldsmobile, m would be lansing mich, and 8 would be the year. good luck

 

Thank you. Is it easier to access (see) from above under the hood, or getting under the car? I will go take a look and see what I can find.

 

You can see it from above. It is on a machined pad under the #1 cylinder.

 

All 68 & 69 W-30's & Hurst Oldsmobile's came with the D Head.... If yours has C heads, the car could be a clone or the engine and or heads may have been replace at some time. These cars were run hard back in the day & blowing up an engine was not uncommon. D Heads bring BIG $$ these days.

 

Post the info from the protect-o-plate the info can be decoded and confirm some of the car's ID issues.

 

Here is the protect-o-plate info.

943-DD 336878M337950
QI8427212 SC 4
HPP8B29 01100

 

Looks like a different motor which was expected I guess. The VIN on the motor from what I can tell is 38M389?10

Not sure if that tells us anything.

 

According to your protect o plate the vin showing 33687 is for a holiday coupe (no post) and the pics of your car are of a sedan post car, which vin should start with 33677. Seems your P.O.P. is not to your car. Also it is not a 442 vin.

 

943 = blue "strato" bucket seat interior
DD = "sapphire blue metallic" upper & lower body paint

336878M337950 = VIN# of a '68 V8 Cutlass 2dr hardtop
QI84427212 = engine unit # for a 350 2bbl with manual transmission

SC = 3.08:1 Olds rear axle
4 = ??

HP = ??
P8B29 = trans date code - Muncie 1968 February 29th

01100 = option accesory codes - power steering & radio ??

 

396026 G = 400 cu. in. engine

3 = Oldsmobile
8 = 1968
M = Lansing, MI assembly plant
389?10 = last 6 of VIN# from car it was originally installed in

 

Thanks for the help guys.. I do appreciate it. Looking at the P.O.P info, I do see the name above doesn't match the name of the original owner. It's backwards (for stamping I guess) and I didn't really look very closely at it. This may have been picked up and put in the car as a novelty or something as it matches the car year and make.

The actual VIN on the car (on the dash) is 344778M273721. Is there a place to decode that?

 

Thank you for decoding that for me..

Obviously a non matching motor hurts the value of the car, but is it significant? For a non matching motor, does it at least help that it's an Olds, 68 (same year as the car) and from the Lansing plant?

I want to make sure I am upfront with whoever I sell this car to, and not BS someone into thinking it's something it's not, because I myself don't know what it is. But at the same time, I don't want to give it away either.

 

Anyone maybe know what that engine may have come out of? 400 but with the "C" heads.

Any other things I can look for that would tell me this still might be a W30, but with a different engine?

 

nice car

 

So decoding the VIN on the dash I come up with a 1968, Olds, 442, Sports coupe, assembled in Lancing, MI. Which at least appears to match the car.

Wish there was a way to confirm that W30 package.

 

Thanks.. it's for sale.

 

There is no legitimate reason to remove that data plate for paint or any other restoration related process. That is going to make selling this car more difficult.

Without documentation there is no way to verify if this car is a factory W30. It does have the 442 emblems in the right spot for the stripes and it does have manual drum brakes, which are consistent for a 1968 W30.

Good luck with yoir sale.

 

Another '68 442 is the most probable origin of the engine. (longshot uses of 400s in '68 include Vista Cruisers & a-body "cop cars")
Most used the "C" heads, the only ones that did not are the W-30 cars that used the "D" heads.

What transmission & rear axle are in the car?

The problem with documenting a W30 is lack of paperwork & all of the components being "bolt-on". You have: air cleaner - is it a '68 or '69 unit? original inner fenders? can't see the scoops in the pictures '68 or '69 real or reproduction? These are the highly visible parts, but these are also the easiest to obtain and install on another car.

These parts could be from the same car the engine came from?

It doesn't appear you have correct W30: "D" heads, carb, distributor (big $$$ details).

IMO, You will lose most collectors & their money at the "NO body tag".

 

I agree.. pretty disappointed that data plate was removed.

 

Does the rivets on the vin plate look right? What are the numbers on the tranny. Maybe the car was rebodied? It is a great looking car

 

Here is a picture of the VIN. There is a bezel around it, so I can't see an rivets.

It's a 4 speed manual. Where would I find the numbers on the tranny?

 

Very nice Sport Coupe

It has manual brakes [disc or drums?] and the fender numerals located properly for a stripe. And HD Cooling but not AC. While not definitive, it would be rare for a non-W30 car to have these features.

Too bad the POP isn't *THE* POP for your exact car, the engine code is on it.

You have a G400 = 68-9 400 which came with C heads. The FAQ thing started out with errata and I see has gotten worse since. The wiki version should be better, 'cause we can CHANGE it.

I can make faux replica "D" heads for not too much $. They look like a "D" head, at first glance.

'68 air cleaner has a _SQUARE_ pcv filter hole on driver [LH] side; '69 version has a ROUND pvc grommet hole on the RH side. Ck that detail, and also your carb number and distributor number. I know, for a newcomer who hasn't seen the engine VIN stamp, it'll take some learning.

An easier detail- ck your WP pulley- a OAI car with 2g pulleys should have a "KA" stamped into it- pretty rare part- a handy replacement might be KM or KE or KN. If your engine is a 68-9 replacement, chances are the pulleys came with it.... or maybe you are lucky.

I can be reached for more consulting at 'rocketscience442@hotmail.com" or call/ text 517.449.oh-432
6-10pm is best, or weekends.

 

I took a look at what I could. The car has disk brakes.. at least in front. The red inner fenders look to be authentic. The raised mounts for cruise control have defined sharp edges. I have read that reproductions have undefined globs at best. They have the 4" holes right behind the headlights as well.

Air cleaner definitely has a square hole on the driver side. The air cleaner and OAI hoses appear to be original, and not reproduction. Quality just looks too good, with perfect welding on the black part of the air cleaner.

I am unable to find a stamp on the pulley. Would it be on the front, or the back? Is it pretty large and pretty easy to see with the naked eye, or is it really small? The stamp may just be out of the line of sight.

Thanks to everyone with the help and information.

 

Anyone have a ballpark on what they think this car is worth as it sits? I listed it on craigslist for $17K. Think that is too much? With no way to prove it's a W30 for sure, I can't see that car being worth more than that. I am hoping it's not a whole lot less. Researching the net I have seen non matching 442's that look to be in about the same condition between $14K to $25K. So I felt $17K was fair, but just looking for other opinions.

 

Just currious but what the diff between c heads and d heads? I know the d heads are rare and were on the w30's but how do they compare to c heads?

 

Look under "Heads 1964 - 1990"

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofhed.htm

All W30 442's came with "D" heads.

 

Hey Twintone,
Is this car running? Reason I ask is I notice that what looks like the red wire from the positive battery terminal is connected to the wrong terminal on the horn relay. Shouldn't it connect to the forward terminal? Well if it's running I guess it doesn't matter??
Tom
68 442
70 F85

 

Manual brakes: I'd bet somewhere around 50% of '68 442s had manual drum brakes - this includes ALL of the W-30s (does this car have '68-style 4-piston calipers?). Manual disc brakes was NOT an OPTION in '68.

W-36 stripes were STANDARD with the W-30 package, but they were also OPTIONAL on any '68 442. My uncle has a '68 442 Turnpike Cruiser with factory W-36 stripes.

Evidence is pretty thin that this was a factory W-30 car. All the original W-30/Hurst-Olds/W-31 OAI specific parts that are present could be gathered in a few months on eBay. Do you know for a fact it was a factory 4-speed car?

What was the original color?

 

Good point
the disk brakes [only FRONT disks available back then, and barely even front ones] would have to be added on.

My '68 W30 has manual drums ["darn near adequate"]...

And if the disks are factory original they would have 4-piston calipers and be power... but W30's were not offered with power brakes in '68 therefore no disk brakes.

 

quote <<Reason I ask is I notice that what looks like the red wire from the positive battery terminal is connected to the wrong terminal on the horn relay. Shouldn't it connect to the forward terminal?>>

Answered my own question...after looking at the wiring diagram in my CSM, it looks like both of those terminals are the same contact.

Tom

 

x2

 

Where is it listed, where are you located ? asking 17K ?

 

It's listed on Craigs List in Madison, WI and Chicago IL. I live in Verona, WI which is a suburb of Madison. I am asking $17K yes. Car could be worth more, but if you read the whole thread you will see why I dropped the price. Here is a ad if interested.

http://madison.craigslist.org/cto/3313844645.html

 

"All parts are correct, and appear to be original for a W30" and no mention of no data plate?
That is dishonest advertising. Which will deservedly make it a tough sell.

 

I have received roughly 8 calls on the car, and everyone I have spoken to has been made aware of the car not having a data plate. It isn't something I can hide and it isn't my intention to deceive anyone.

 

Sorry, that still doesn't cut it with me. "All parts are correct, and appear to be original for a W30". Means 4 wheel drum brakes. Means D heads on the engine and a correct carb. You said not original engine, but you also are saying it is correct.
Why would you say that if your intention is not to deceive? That statement is not correct, even "to the best of your knowledge".
I have a very low tolerance for misrepresentation.

 

Then why don't you write ALL of the ads for all Oldsmobiles that are for sale. Leave the guy alone and let him be the seller not you.