[QUOTE=442craig;1623790]Ok, so here is the video of the pressure test. Runs at 6.5 psi. I ran the electric and mechanical at the same time. when I turned off the electric pump it began to fail.
It's obviously the pump. The engine is somewhat new. about 10,000 miles on a rebuild. I will check the cam eccentric when I pull it out. Still weird that 2 pumps are doing the same thing. First ran in the car for the past 8 years.
So...
What pump should I run? The mechanical pump is a high flow 80 GPH. The engine is hotter than stock and this is the pump (the first one) that the builder installed. What would you guys recommenced replacing with?
Should I just go electric?
Thanks all!
Craig/QUOTE]

So, the first fuel pump lasted 8 years and the 2nd pump lasted two years. That tells me you had two "crap" fuel pumps that were a "knock off" of the Holley pump. Were they warranted ? Put another foreign knock off of a Holley on again, and you can think its weird THREE of them do the same thing.

Unless your engine is pumping out 500 or more horsepower, a stock fuel pump should work. I would try another brand fuel pump. People have been happy with Airtex, and they are made in the USA. RockAuto.com would be one source. Others can chime in.

 

Ok, so we don't like chrome knock offs!!
The car is putting out 400+ HP

Here's what I found at Rock auto...




Any opinions on theses?

Thank you all!

Craig

 

Did we ever get a fuel pressure reading?
Are you going to use the return line? If so make sure the pump is for an A/C car like the Rock Auto punp shows.
Try to find USA-made versions of the stock pump. Delphi pump could be USA?

 

Took a reading, 6.5 PSI. Here's the latest video of it
It is an AC car but not using it.
Will see if anyone has recommendations.

Thank you!

Craig

 

This is a Carter, USA made I believe, says if flows 5.5 - 6.5 psi and 120 GPH (seems high! Typo?)

Thoughts?

 

The Carter Model #M6109 is the correct mechanical fuel pump for your application. I'm not sure where you found the write-up you displayed as an image, but a copy of the image from the official Carter site demonstrates:

 

BTW, I'll add I have used Carter mechanical fuel pumps. They're good mechanical fuel pumps.

 

I am going to order the Carter from Amazon which has a great return policy! I will report back!

Thank you everyone! What a group!!!

Craig

 

I research all/any parts I need (automotive or otherwise) then head directly to Amazon for purchase (Prime). I've always had excellent customer service an everything I've purchased - never a worry. I will say this though - I've noted on "some" products, I've felt/though/considered some suppliers/producers ship "seconds" which may not meet the mustard (QC) test - e.g. coffee filters, other paper products and other "suspect" products. I really am not certain I'm correct about my observations but there are occasions....

 

In this global society, often unchecked, like Forest Gump said... "You never know what your gonna get!" Thanks for the insight! I like that I can exchange it if it doesn't work. How can anyone compete with Amazon? I hate that it's so easy! I'd rather buy from the little guy but am
out of patients with this one!

Thanks Norm!

Craig

 

Just wondering, Craig -- what inspired you to install the electric primer pump in the first place?

× 2 on the M6109. I actually have a spare one kicking around that I bought (erroneously) for my 400G. Probably not worth the effort to ship seeing as they're cheap and plentiful on Amazon.

 

It just takes forever to start after sitting for a few weeks. Probably has do do with the pump now that I think of it. A lot of car forums talk about adding it to
their cars. Kind of 2 fold for me, a good priming and a back up if the mechanical fails.
This is the inspiration...
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=electric+f...%3D7-1Mud8DblA

 

Ok Guys,

I installed the Carter fuel pump. It seems happier. Hasn't stalled out. I haven't driven it yet, don't want to get stuck.

So...
It is still surging and "percolating". Here is the video of it.

Thoughts?????

 

Ignoring the fuel filter imagery for a minute, how is it actually running? What's the fuel PSI with the new Carter pump? Take it for a short drive and report back.

 

So it runs actually good. I ran another test with the gauge on it and the new Carter is putting out 10PSI. Is that too much? I noticed the top carb gasket getting a little damp, possible indication of the higher pressure?
When it begins to "percolate" the gauge erratically fluctuates between 9-10 PSI. It is solid 10 otherwise. I can't get it to fail now in the garage. It's raining here today in Idaho but will take it for a drive when its clear.
Bottom line does this cause concern?

Thank you!

Craig

 

10 PSI is a lot. A "mild 400" doesn't need anything over 6 and should be happy with anything over 4.5. Do you still have the electric pump on there?

 

Yes, but only running to prime. The 10 PSI is with the Carter alone.

 

Ok... So let's add a wrinkle!!!!
When inquiring about the 10 PSI problem to the people at Carter was told that Carter has a problem with the
pumps right now! He said Delphi has the same problem. Probably the same subcontractor!

THIS IS SO MADDENING!!!!!!!!!

Any thoughts on a pump I can get?

Thank you!

Craig

 

I've read through this thread more than a couple times...I am not convinced the issue relates to the mechanical fuel pump despite someone stating "Carter has a problem with the pumps right now!". I'm not sure I'd place any confidence in that statement. "If" Carter has a problem with the pumps, they can & should easily identify what that problem is what Model No. this supposed "problem" produces. Carter is a good company who stands behind their products. I'd take that advice w/ a grain of salt.

I believe you have a venting issue - somewhere, somehow, some way. If a return line is clogged &/or not sized correctly, the mechanical fuel pump will work harder (generate more psi) to overcome a clogged return line.

 

If you have 10 PSI fuel pressure, you have way to much, as Bang Screech pointed out. A Quadrajet only needs 4.5 to about 5.5 PSI. If you have 10 PSI, you could be forcing the needle open (Fuel inlet needle and seat) and overfilling the float bowl. If you overfill the Quadrajet float bowl all sorts of richness problems happen.

As I see it, you need to send the Carter fuel pump back, in hopes of getting one that works in the 4.5 to 5.5 PSI range. OR you can try an Airtex brand pump. OR you can install a fuel pressure regulator.

As far as "venting" goes, you have plenty ! That 1/2" to 5/8" vertical tube (vent) in the center of the Quadrajet from the float bowl should give you plenty of venting.

 

Going to order a Delphi pump and send the Carter back.
The one that comes up is a 7psi 40GPH MF0152. The output is horizontal, lying flat not angled up like the Carter.
The other looks identical to the Carter 6PSI 30GPH MF0006. It has the angled output that fits the hard line to the carb
Any idea what the difference is?

 

I assume your car has A/C? And more importantly, if you are using that style pump with 3 lines, that the return line is functional, and not just capped off? If the return libe is capped off, you will see excessive fuel pressure.

If the car has a single supply and feed line, you need a pump with just 2 fittings.

 

Interesting! Yes it is an AC car but yes it is capped off. Is it ok to run it with the return line open (not hooked up)? I guess I could hook it back up to the tank.
Carter isn't selling/recommending the pump right now as it is putting out too much pressure. I just ordered a Delphi pump. Interesting thing is you cant order the Carter lookalike from Delphi.
The guy at Carter said they are having the same problem with the supplier.

the saga continues!!!!

Thank you all for the support!

Craig

 

bingo!! I’d be willing to bet the capped off return line is the cause of the excessive pressure.

It would be easy enough to test, get a a
couple feet of 1/4 hose, run the line from the return fitting of the pump into a gas can. Start the engine, verify the pressure is lower than with it capped.

 

I don't see why a hose from the can, a return going to the can, and a hose going to the gauge and a plugged end wouldn't tell you deadhead pressure.

 

So, installed the Delphi pump. Car runs good but has 10 PSI! Was told by the Tech at Carter that Delphi and Carter are having issues at the moment, this pretty much confirms it!
Beware buying a pump right now!
I hooked up the return line to the tank. No change! It's the pump(s)

I think I am going to install a regulator and see what happens.

Any suggestions on a regulator?

Thank you all!

Craig

 

Craig,
I am in need of a new pump after my car has been on the hoist for 15 years. Getting ready to start it and the pump leaks. I have a 68 Toronado motor in my 65 442. Years ago I installed an 80 gallon per hour pump. I thought it was a Holley. So not having much luck finding a replacement, I searched and found your thread!! I was getting ready to pull the trigger on the Speedway model, you first mentioned. But after ready all the way through your post, I know the Speedway pump looks similar to my old pump, but mine says made in the USA on it!!
But here is the kicker, back when I installed that Holley pump, I had too much pressure. I do have the second outlet plugged. At that time I added a pressure regulator inline after the pump. I adjusted it and that ran great until I parked it in 2010. So it worked from 1979 till I parked it. It is a deadhead type regulator with no return to the tank. Works great! It would be better to have a return, but I intend to fuel inject in the future and all this goes. I spent the last 15 years, replacing the suspension and disk brakes and Tremec 5 speed and new rear axle. Long story.. but now I need a fuel pump.

So I feel confident if you add a regulator, it will fix your problems!!
Off to Amazon I go!! Thanks for sharing your problem to help with mine!!

The regulator I am using is Blue one from a Blue Holley electric pump. The rebuild kit for the regulator is Holley 12-807. I did some research. The 12-803 Holley is what I have, but it was blue back 30 years ago or so.. I hope that helps.


Dick

It used to be blue, I powder coated it.

Here's where I have it mounted. Fuel pump is removed at the moment.

Here's the rebuild kit for the regulator.

 

Hi Dick!

Thanks for the input. This is the damnedest thing! I ran the "Holly" pump for nine years on recommendation from my builder. It ran fine until the problem occurred. Replaced it with Speedway pump and it did the same problem. So changing the pump seems to have fixed it
feel like I'm chasing my tail on this. I am going back to stock as much as I can. I got rid of the glass fuel filter and put the stock, in carb, filter back in. Going to look for a regulator with a pressure gauge port so i can see the output real time.

Glad my misery helped you!

Craig

 

On that MF0152 pump I see IN marked on the larger tube fitting, I am assuming the output is on the threaded fitting.
Is the small tube an in or an out? I'm guessing an output. But I would rather know for sure.
Instructions in the box don't specify. And the pump is made in China.. go figure.
I called Holley and the tech found a site that may offer a rebuild kit, of sorts.

http://classicpreservation.com/
Is the site the Holley Tech mentioned.
I may reach out to him and see what he can do. I wouldn't mind rebuilding my Holley!!

Thanks Craig for the info!!
Dick

 

Dang this sounds frustrating. Just saw this but we've had pressure issues with Carters on the mopars for a few years now (9 psi output, lifts the needle and seat). Can't believe they are finally recognizing the issue.

Any of those three way / tee style regulators will work. You can hard plumb them in if you want... they have NPT threaded outlets, get NPT to 3/8" tube inverted flare fittings (which are probably 5/8" thread if memory is correct) and bend your own steel line. Takes more time than the hoses. We've put the regulator right on the outlet of a Carter fuel pump before when it had NPT threaded outlets (just used an NPT nipple).

 

The large tube is the in and the little tube is the back flow to the tank for AC cars and the threaded is the output to the carb. I bought a pressure regulator that is coming this week so will report back with the results!

 

I bought a Speedway regulator that has a gauge port. It's supposed to arrive the week, I'll report back and hopefully I can retire this long thread!

Thank you all!

Craig

 

Hopefully, you'll be able to create a post indicating how you resolved the issue. Hope it's working out.

 

​​​@442craig , any news on the fuel issue? I am asking since I have exactly the same issue. Glass filter is installed on the fuel line since I bought the car from the previous owner two years ago. On days with higher temperature (here in Germany this means above 80°F), the engine stalls when driving after having driven a while and then doing a break of 1/2 to 3 hours. I see exactly the same effect like you on the filter (fuel level going down more and more, then disappearing). I rebuilt the engine last winter and installed lots of new (stock) parts.

I already did the following checks and modifications, all did not help:
- rebuilt the complete engine and I stalled a new stock fuel pump (ordered from Rockauto)
- installed a new filter insert
- removed the filter insert and kept only the glass housing (stock insert in carb still there)

My personal strong guess in my car is actually a fuel temperature problem: Fuel gets too hot and so it boils. It is very annoying since I use premium fuel only, and add octane booster when refueling. My carb is the stock quadrajet with an overhaul kit installed, runs perfectly fine all other times.

I am in vacation for two weeks now but when back I'll do the following two tryouts:
1) Drive the car until gas is empty and fill in some "ultra" gasoline with 102 octane, then check if boiling behavior still persists
2) Remove the glass filter housing completely and run a one-piece hose from pump to carb (hoping for potentially less heat transfer for the hose instead of the glass filter since this gets really crazy hot behind the radiator and fan on my engine with stock 195° thermostat).

Any comment welcome, seems not to be a very uncommon issue. The connecting element between @442craig and me is at least the glass filter. Anybody else using the glass filter without issues?

Let's see what we find out. I'll post again here my results.

Best regards, Steffen

Here some pics for illustration:


Engine view during install, brand new stock pump in foreground (the round device on the right of fuel pump is a dealer-install pressure damper, described in an original service bulletin which I suppose will add to heating up the fuel additionally).


Overall view of fuel line to carb


Photo when issue is happening (no fuel left between filter insert and glass housing, small bubbles at top of insert show boiling fuel inside filter insert)...

Here I add a video showing the fuel boiling:

 

​​​@442craig , any news on the fuel issue? I am asking since I have exactly the same issue. Glass filter is installed on the fuel line since I bought the car from the previous owner two years ago. On days with higher temperature (here in Germany this means above 80°F), the engine stalls when driving after having driven a while and then doing a break of 1/2 to 3 hours. I see exactly the same effect like you on the filter (fuel level going down more and more, then disappearing). I rebuilt the engine last winter and installed lots of new stock grade parts (honed cylinders, installed new piston rings, crankshaft and connecting rod bearings, etc.). So far have 700 mls on it. The car is an A/C vehicle, with fuel return line, but the air condition is not in operation currently.

I already did the following checks and modifications, all did not help:
- Installed a new stock fuel pump (ordered from Rockauto)
- installed a new filter insert
- removed the filter insert and kept only the glass housing (stock insert in carb still there)

My personal strong guess in my car is actually a fuel temperature problem: Fuel gets too hot and so it boils (actually vapor lock). It is very annoying since I use premium fuel only, and add octane booster when refueling. My carb is the stock quadrajet with an overhaul kit installed, runs perfectly fine all other times.

I am in vacation for two weeks now but when back I'll do the following two tryouts:
1) Drive the car until gas is empty and fill in some "ultra" gasoline with 102 octane, then check if boiling behavior still persists
2) Remove the glass filter housing completely and run a one-piece hose from pump to carb (hoping for potentially less heat transfer for the hose instead of the glass filter since this gets really crazy hot behind the radiator and fan on my engine with stock 195° thermostat).

Any comment welcome, seems not to be a very uncommon issue. The connecting element between @442craig and me is at least the glass filter. Anybody else using the glass filter without issues?

Let's see what we find out. I'll post again here my results.

Best regards, Steffen

Here some pics for illustration:


Engine view during install, brand new stock pump in foreground (the round device on the right of fuel pump is a dealer-install pressure damper, described in an original service bulletin which I suppose will add to heating up the fuel additionally).


Overall view of fuel line to carb


Photo when issue is happening (no fuel left between filter insert and glass housing, small bubbles at top of insert show boiling fuel inside filter insert)...

Here I add a video showing the fuel boiling: