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Thanks Oldsmaniac! Although in jest, you asked why anyone would buy a 67? Legit question, here's a legit answer. I remember every car my dad had when I was growing up. My favorite by far was the 67 Olds Cutlass Supreme he bought new when I was 8. It was red on red, with the 330 in it, bucket seats, and the center console shift. Boy was it beautiful! I've wanted a 67 Cutlass from that day to now. Just thought I'd get one up on old dad by getting the 442 package, I know he'd approve.
My story is similar, pop bought a used family car. It was a 67 Supreme 4dr. When I found out there was a 442 that looked similar wanted one.
Oldsmaniac, that's cool how your story is very similar to mine! Funny how so many memories from our childhood are so vivid like they happened just yesterday, yet I can't remember what I ate for dinner two days ago. Hey, is that your car in the pic? It looks really awesome!
Oldsmaniac, that's cool how your story is very similar to mine! Funny how so many memories from our childhood are so vivid like they happened just yesterday, yet I can't remember what I ate for dinner two days ago. Hey, is that your car in the pic? It looks really awesome!
It is a vintage picture of my 442 and my pop's 4dr Supreme in front of it. I still have mine. Picture is from 1976. And this is what you could get then for 700 bucks.
My story is similar except my first car was a 67 Cutlass Supreme, it was my aunts car and had been hit more times than Joe Lewis. I learned a lot with that car while personalizing it. When looking at cars for my son in 09, mine came up for sale around the corner. I thought it would be cool for my sons first car to also be a 67 Cutlass and after consulting with him and his mom, we bought it. While that part of the story came to a quick and unfortunate end, I continue to work on this one as my toy. The car is very unique at car shows and always draws a crowd by people that love them and those that have no clue what it is.
Hi guys,
The bulk of the info in this thread contains descriptions of the upgraded or replacement components that went into the restoration/rebuild of the 1967 442 I ended up purchasing in November, 2019. Numerous guys on the forum weighed in with their thoughts and opinions on the quality of the car and gave me invaluable insight on things to look for and check when I traveled 500-miles to check out the car and test drive it last October. Eveyone's advice was invaluable in helping me to make an informed decision before purchasing my car.
Well, I've had the car a year now and I've put about 900-miles on it going to cruise-ins, local shows, and just taking my wife out for a cruise on nice days. I'm happy to report the car has been an absolute joy to own, with no issues. It starts reliably, runs strong, and turns heads everywhere we go! We were fortunate to have several cruise-ins and some judged shows here in the St. Louis area during the 2nd half of the summer. I have told this story on a separate forum, but believe it's worth repeating here. My best experience with my car this summer was at the last show I entered on 17 October. A young man in a wheelchair came up to talk with me and he told me he had voted for my car in the "Peoples Choice" portion of the show. He explained he was there with his Dad and their family's 65 Chevelle convertible. He then proceeded to tell me more about 1967 442's than I knew, and told me 67 442's are his favorite 60's muscle car. We talked for at least an hour about my car, his Dad's car, other entries, and cars in general. At the end of the day I ended up placing 3rd overall, and received a small trophy and $50. The real joy, the discussion with the young enthusiast, was priceless!
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; Nov 1, 2020 at 05:31 AM.
Oldcutlass, thank you, I appreciate your best estimate. I welcome any additional responses to my original and second question in this thread.
I just saw your thread and I have a 65 442 with a 400 engine that has a lot of work done to it, and it produces 469 hp on the dyno. You would have to do most of the stuff below to get near 450 hp.
This engine has the ‘correct’ casting numbers from the day, a ‘B’ block, with forged crank #384772. ‘A’ heads that match the POP card proving original to the car. This engine has recently been rebuilt, with extensive modernization of the internal components, resulting in a 100 hp increase over stock(360hp). This was a no expense spared rebuild done at Chief Performance Engines out of Fort Lauderdale, Fl., one of the world’s premier off-shore engine shops. The initial conception was to modernize the engine, lower the compression ratio; yet, put out big horse power on pump gas. The 400ci block was baked, blasted, magnafluxed, and sonic tested for cracks, showing an unusually thick walled block. It was then deburred, the oil pump and rear main galleys polished. The mains were upgraded with studs and steel caps in the center, it was line bored, line honed, decked square to the block. The crankshaft was re-machined at Moldex Crankshaft, polishing the mains; offset grinding and drilling the rod throws to lighten the reciprocating mass. New forged h beam rods, light weight ceramic coated pistons with narrow ring sets made up the final short block.° All the reciprocating and rotating parts were balanced, the pistons, the rods(both ends), crank, flywheel, disc, and clutch were brought into balance; enough weight was removed from the crank to convert it from external balance to internal balance, to reduce vibrations and crank strain. A custom Isky roller cam completes the short block along with Harlan Sharp roller rockers. The heads received new exhaust seals, the combustion chambers were cc’d, polished, the port runners were polished, flowed on a flow bench for maximum flow. All new seals, guides, and springs were installed and the stainless valves were swirl polished. The porting improved the breathing on the heads far over stock.
Engine specs Bore 4.130” Cam Specs Int: 293
Combustion Chamber Volume 88 cc Exh: 303 Stroke 4.125” Lobe Separation 112°
Piston to Deck Clr 0.125” I Intake Lobe Centerline 109° Displacement
442.08 CI. HP: 469 HP @ 5200 RPM
Quench distance 0.052” TQ: 535 Ft lbs @ 3500 RPM
Calculated static CR 9.674 to 1 Calculated dynamic CR 7.025 to 1
I just saw your thread and I have a 65 442 with a 400 engine that has a lot of work done to it, and it produces 469 hp on the dyno. You would have to do most of the stuff below to get near 450 hp.
This engine has the ‘correct’ casting numbers from the day, a ‘B’ block, with forged crank #384772. ‘A’ heads that match the POP card proving original to the car. This engine has recently been rebuilt, with extensive modernization of the internal components, resulting in a 100 hp increase over stock(360hp). This was a no expense spared rebuild done at Chief Performance Engines out of Fort Lauderdale, Fl., one of the world’s premier off-shore engine shops. The initial conception was to modernize the engine, lower the compression ratio; yet, put out big horse power on pump gas. The 400ci block was baked, blasted, magnafluxed, and sonic tested for cracks, showing an unusually thick walled block. It was then deburred, the oil pump and rear main galleys polished. The mains were upgraded with studs and steel caps in the center, it was line bored, line honed, decked square to the block. The crankshaft was re-machined at Moldex Crankshaft, polishing the mains; offset grinding and drilling the rod throws to lighten the reciprocating mass. New forged h beam rods, light weight ceramic coated pistons with narrow ring sets made up the final short block.° All the reciprocating and rotating parts were balanced, the pistons, the rods(both ends), crank, flywheel, disc, and clutch were brought into balance; enough weight was removed from the crank to convert it from external balance to internal balance, to reduce vibrations and crank strain. A custom Isky roller cam completes the short block along with Harlan Sharp roller rockers. The heads received new exhaust seals, the combustion chambers were cc’d, polished, the port runners were polished, flowed on a flow bench for maximum flow. All new seals, guides, and springs were installed and the stainless valves were swirl polished. The porting improved the breathing on the heads far over stock.
Engine specs Bore 4.130” Cam Specs Int: 293
Combustion Chamber Volume 88 cc Exh: 303 Stroke 4.125” Lobe Separation 112°
Piston to Deck Clr 0.125” I Intake Lobe Centerline 109° Displacement
442.08 CI. HP: 469 HP @ 5200 RPM
Quench distance 0.052” TQ: 535 Ft lbs @ 3500 RPM
Calculated static CR 9.674 to 1 Calculated dynamic CR 7.025 to 1
JMN442 - Thanks for the detailed upgraded parts list and specs of your motor build. I do not believe the motor upgrades that went into my build are anywhere near what yours are, and as a result I don't believe my HP is anywhere near what yours is putting out. If I had to put my best guess on what mine's putting out I would say maybe around 400, up from the 360 OEM?.
Here's a list of my upgrades. - Original E block and C heads, heads were ported and polished but I do not have any flow rate numbers
- Cam Specs: Advertised 300 degrees intake duration/ Advertised 310 degrees exhaust duration; .496 intake lift / .520 exhaust lift; 224 degrees intake duration @ .050 / 234 degrees exhaust duration @ .050; 112 degrees lobe separation
- .921 hydraulic lifters, new springs, seals, stainless valves, and hardened valve seats
- Edlebrock 2151 Performer intake
- Holley 750 cfm Street Demon carb
- Hooker long tube stainless headers, 1.75" primary tubes, 3.0" collector
- Flowmaster 3.0" stainless exhaust with x-crossover member
- Mallory HEI ignition
What do you think, does 400HP sound reasonable?
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; Nov 4, 2020 at 08:56 AM.
Thats one beautiful car and a great buy at 29k.. really good buy in my opinion.. congrats and enjoy it..
Andy - Thanks so much for the compliments on the car and your opinion on what I paid for it.. I'm super happy with the car so far after 1 season. I put about 900-miles on it last year. The car runs great and doesn't have a leak anywhere.. Here's a few more pics.
Something worth mentioning is front wheel to caliper clearance. The Oldsmobile "rally style" wheel is referred to as the marque's name for it, Super Stock. There's 4 series, but the SS IV is a much later beast, and the SSIII is a painted SSII, so we really only have to discuss the SSII enough to say you don't have those, and focus on the SS1 or SSI, which is the original mounted rims you have loose in a picture above.
The SSI came in in 66, and was before disc brakes. When the first disc brakes were offered in 67 on the Cutlass, only special stamped steel wheels would clear the calipers and you got them with disc brake cars. In 68, the SSII came out, and it (and the SSIII) will clear factory calipers. There was a 1 year only SSI that looks like the 66-68 rim that was made in 69 that will clear the disc brake calipers, and the whole thing was designed into a trim-ring style SSI in 70 that will also take disc calipers. There was a wider, all chrome, 14x7 in 71 that could also do disc brake calipers.
To summarize and not drown you: most all chrome SSI's like you have won't clear a even factory brake caliper, much less larger aftermarket calipers, unless the wheels, too, are aftermarket (and sometimes not even then). There's a very real chance that the changes made to your 442 with the disc brakes will mean those SSIs will no longer fit up front if they are factory Olds rims. You may wish to jack it up one Saturday and see if the wheel can be landed on the lug studs and not hit the caliper. If it does, there is no issue, you should simply sell the rims at that point, and you can do that on here.
Something worth mentioning is front wheel to caliper clearance. The Oldsmobile "rally style" wheel is referred to as the marque's name for it, Super Stock. There's 4 series, but the SS IV is a much later beast, and the SSIII is a painted SSII, so we really only have to discuss the SSII enough to say you don't have those, and focus on the SS1 or SSI, which is the original mounted rims you have loose in a picture above.
The SSI came in in 66, and was before disc brakes. When the first disc brakes were offered in 67 on the Cutlass, only special stamped steel wheels would clear the calipers and you got them with disc brake cars. In 68, the SSII came out, and it (and the SSIII) will clear factory calipers. There was a 1 year only SSI that looks like the 66-68 rim that was made in 69 that will clear the disc brake calipers, and the whole thing was designed into a trim-ring style SSI in 70 that will also take disc calipers. There was a wider, all chrome, 14x7 in 71 that could also do disc brake calipers.
To summarize and not drown you: most all chrome SSI's like you have won't clear a even factory brake caliper, much less larger aftermarket calipers, unless the wheels, too, are aftermarket (and sometimes not even then). There's a very real chance that the changes made to your 442 with the disc brakes will mean those SSIs will no longer fit up front if they are factory Olds rims. You may wish to jack it up one Saturday and see if the wheel can be landed on the lug studs and not hit the caliper. If it does, there is no issue, you should simply sell the rims at that point, and you can do that on here.
Koda - Thanks for the compliment on the paint and the "SS" wheel tutorial. I don't know how accurate it is, but I have a page marked on Oldsmobility.com that gives a detailed progression and pics of the SS varieties.
I am pretty sure mine are repros. I do not know the manufacturer, but here is what is stamped on the inside of the wheels:
Made in U.S.A 15x7.0 Custom JJ DOT CT&W. 2 14 2007
I am assuming the 2 14 2007 is the manufacturing date, leading to my determination they are repros. The previous owner told me they will fit the car with the disc brakes. I guess I'll see, as I intend to put them on in the spring and run them next season. The BFG's on them are like new. I ran a poll on a different thread awhile back and the vast majority of the guys preferred the SS1's. I like both sets of wheels, but I much prefer the raised white letter BFG's that are on the SS1's. Who knows, they might even get me a few more brownie points at the local shows! I'm definitely going to try one on the front first, don't want to get the rears on only to find the fronts won't fit. Here's a pic with the SS1's on it.
Yeah, those are repros. Original SS1s are 14x6, yours are 15x7. The brake clearance is an issue on 14 inch rims, 15 inchers are much more forgiving.
I THINK I can see the caliper behind the wheel there, so you should be all good to go.
Koda - Thanks. I knew original SSIs were 14's, for some reason it just didn't jump out at me as an immediate determining difference between mine being repros vs. originals.
I had my engine built with a Mondello roller cam and lifters, Edelbrock aluminum heads, performer rpm intake, headers and more and it dynoed at 441 hp and 490 tq.
Update from the OP - Over 3-years now and going strong
Hi guys,
Well, I've owned my car for over 3-years now and it has been both a gem and a joy. This past season I had it out to a total of 33 events that included 15 judged shows and 18 non-judged cruise-ins. I put a seasonal record of 1600-miles on it last summer. I've become a regular on the St. Louis car scene, and I am a member of the St. Louis Archway Oldsmobile Club. This wonderful car has become such a joyful part of my retirement, whether it's taking it out to an event or tinkering with it in my garage. Here are some of my favorite pictures from this past season:
At the Archway Oldsmobile Club's Fall "All Oldsmobile Show"
At a judged show in St. Genevieve, MO put on by the Knights of Columbus
An early arrival at a large cruise-in put on monthly by a local church
I know you guys like to see engines. Original "E" block and "C" heads (ported and polished)
A pic of the Show Sign I created using reproductions of vintage '67 4-4-2 advertisements
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; Feb 8, 2023 at 06:36 AM.
Been reading about your journey with your '67 442. I'm about to join the club as I pick up this all original, nicely optioned '67 ragtop early next week. It's an unrestored driver but all there and solid. Can't wait to get into it! Oh, and I also own a '67 Toronado Deluxe.
Hey Man,
Been reading about your journey with your '67 442. I'm about to join the club as I pick up this all original, nicely optioned '67 ragtop early next week. It's an unrestored driver but all there and solid. Can't wait to get into it! Oh, and I also own a '67 Toronado Deluxe.
Gregg - Thanks for checking out the thread, always love to hear from the other '67 4-4-2 owners. That is an absolutely gorgeous car you've been able to pick up! I especially love that it's a Vert, and the blue interior is beautiful. You're going to love that baby! Welcome to the group. In your start-up Post show us more pics if you have them yet.
My name is Chris Nixon and I'm in the St. Louis, MO area.
Gregg - Thanks for checking out the thread, always love to hear from the other '67 4-4-2 owners. That is an absolutely gorgeous car you've been able to pick up! I especially love that it's a Vert, and the blue interior is beautiful. You're going to love that baby! Welcome to the group. In your start-up Post show us more pics if you have them yet.
My name is Chris Nixon and I'm in the St. Louis, MO area.
Much appreciated Chris - it should be fun...a documented, verified, real 442 with a/c, power windows, locking diff - only thing not original on this 115K piece is the repaint (correct midnight blue, done in the late 90s), the vert top (correct white, redone in 2019), an Edelbrock carb (comes with a Q-jet but not the original 7027157), and the SS1 wheels (it comes with the original steel wheels and simulated wire hubcaps). Researching seat cover and carpet kits and will dive into that and some weatherstripping that needs to be replaced (trunk seal, vent windows). Maybe BFG Silvertown Redlines to approximate original. Otherwise I just plan to drive it and enjoy it for now! I'm in NW GA. And below was my first car in high school, so I'm reverting to my childhood! LOL...
Much appreciated Chris - it should be fun...a documented, verified, real 442 with a/c, power windows, locking diff - only thing not original on this 115K piece is the repaint (correct midnight blue, done in the late 90s), the vert top (correct white, redone in 2019), an Edelbrock carb (comes with a Q-jet but not the original 7027157), and the SS1 wheels (it comes with the original steel wheels and simulated wire hubcaps). Researching seat cover and carpet kits and will dive into that and some weatherstripping that needs to be replaced (trunk seal, vent windows). Maybe BFG Silvertown Redlines to approximate original. Otherwise I just plan to drive it and enjoy it for now! I'm in NW GA. And below was my first car in high school, so I'm reverting to my childhood! LOL...
Gregg - Sounds like you have a good plan for your car. Funny, I was reverting to my childhood too when I bought mine, LoL! I was 8-yrs old in 1967 when my Dad bought a brand new Red on Red Holiday Coupe 4-4-2. I can still remember riding home from the dealership with him in that car. Always thought that car was the coolest one we ever had when I was growing up. I always wanted a nice one but could never justify the cost until I retired and mine was my retirement present to myself. Here's a couple of recent pics with Repro 15" SSI's on it now and a light refresh in the engine bay. If you're ever coming through the StL area you'll have to let me know and stop on by if you have a little extra time to kill.
Your car is absolutely gorgeous and it goes without saying that you got a good one! I hope that mine is a good as I'm spending money in my retirement that I maybe shouldn't but this car is SO original and SO unmolested that it's almost a sure bet (italicized since nothing in life is). Love the 15" all-chrome SSIs and the engine freshening - in fact, would love to do the 15" SSIs very soon as I'd like to fill-up those wheel wells a bit, but my car had the factory drums and I'm not yet clear on what fits and what doesn't. Soooo many questions for the future!
Got to freshen my engine too as for some reason when it got its body repaint in the 90s, they decided to also paint the engine blue. THAT will change for sure. As mentioned above, I have so many questions and thoughts about mods to do or not, but for now, I'm going to go with mostly cosmetic stuff like the interior freshening, engine paint, get the a/c working and BFG Silvertown tires to just enjoy driving the car. And would love to meet up if I'm ever in the STL area!
Your car is absolutely gorgeous and it goes without saying that you got a good one! I hope that mine is a good as I'm spending money in my retirement that I maybe shouldn't but this car is SO original and SO unmolested that it's almost a sure bet (italicized since nothing in life is). Love the 15" all-chrome SSIs and the engine freshening - in fact, would love to do the 15" SSIs very soon as I'd like to fill-up those wheel wells a bit, but my car had the factory drums and I'm not yet clear on what fits and what doesn't. Soooo many questions for the future!
Got to freshen my engine too as for some reason when it got its body repaint in the 90s, they decided to also paint the engine blue. THAT will change for sure. As mentioned above, I have so many questions and thoughts about mods to do or not, but for now, I'm going to go with mostly cosmetic stuff like the interior freshening, engine paint, get the a/c working and BFG Silvertown tires to just enjoy driving the car. And would love to meet up if I'm ever in the STL area!
Gregg - Thanks for the compliments on my car, they are very much appreciated! You've got a beautiful and very original, very special car yourself. I hope you have a blast as you spruce it up a bit, and "make it your own". I won't be a stranger.
Gregg - Thanks for the compliments on my car, they are very much appreciated! You've got a beautiful and very original, very special car yourself. I hope you have a blast as you spruce it up a bit, and "make it your own". I won't be a stranger.
Thanks my friend...I certainly won't. As an update, I pick up the car tomorrow so by tomorrow afternoon, she'll be in MY garage for the first time! Can't wait...
Thanks my friend...I certainly won't. As an update, I pick up the car tomorrow so by tomorrow afternoon, she'll be in MY garage for the first time! Can't wait...
That's terrific! After you get it home, take a ton of pics and post them for all of us, I'm sure everyone will love seeing them! Safe travels going to get her!
Your car is absolutely gorgeous and it goes without saying that you got a good one! I hope that mine is a good as I'm spending money in my retirement that I maybe shouldn't but this car is SO original and SO unmolested that it's almost a sure bet (italicized since nothing in life is). Love the 15" all-chrome SSIs and the engine freshening - in fact, would love to do the 15" SSIs very soon as I'd like to fill-up those wheel wells a bit, but my car had the factory drums and I'm not yet clear on what fits and what doesn't. Soooo many questions for the future!
Got to freshen my engine too as for some reason when it got its body repaint in the 90s, they decided to also paint the engine blue. THAT will change for sure. As mentioned above, I have so many questions and thoughts about mods to do or not, but for now, I'm going to go with mostly cosmetic stuff like the interior freshening, engine paint, get the a/c working and BFG Silvertown tires to just enjoy driving the car. And would love to meet up if I'm ever in the STL area!
A 4 wheel drum car can handle the SSIs you currently have, and everything else. Bear in mind that wheel diameter is not completely tied to tire diameter, but it is somewhat correlated. If you have a car that is so original and unmolested, the mods to do are zero. I would highly recommend getting the car to stock specs first, then you can see if you are happy with it. There is a "new car guy" tendency to immediately modernize things because he judges them from a failed condition, which is not fair to the car. For instance, you might have undersized tires, and the correct tires might look just right on 14" rims. Good luck, we'll be here.
That's terrific! After you get it home, take a ton of pics and post them for all of us, I'm sure everyone will love seeing them! Safe travels going to get her!
Thanks...right now, I fully intend to bring the car back to stock and enjoy it for a while. As for the wheels and tires, I'm leaning toward going back to the steel wheels, wire hubcaps and redlines. The gentleman I'm buying it from shared this pick from 2019 before he put the SSIs on it.
Glad you and everyone else will be here...I'll have a ton of questions. I know first-gen Toros inside and out, but this beast is a whole new game!
Great looking car, sounds perfect for the cruises and shows!
Thanks for checking out the thread and the compliment on my car, much appreciated! It definitely does not sit in the garage. It's been out to almost 35-events each of the last 2 Seasons. Slow start to this Season though, it's been so wet here in the St. Louis area, I'm hoping that changes soon.
Herkguy - if you're talking about my new-to-me Midnight Blue ragtop, thanks...exactly the idea! If you're talking about Dream67Olds442's, well, I'm not worthy! LOL...
Herkguy - if you're talking about my new-to-me Midnight Blue ragtop, thanks...exactly the idea! If you're talking about Dream67Olds442's, well, I'm not worthy! LOL...
