I'm getting more confused with my 65. I thought I had it narrowed down to 442, but just found a 4 inch hole in the floor about 12 inches from the heater duct. I mentioned this in the other thread, but what I'd like to do is see what clues people have.
How would one tell if they had a Fremont 442 4 speed car or a Fremont Cutlass 4 speed car?
I have the frame,
I have the reg saying Foreign Import,
Tags show Fremont built,
All emblems say 442.
Whole drivetrain has been replaced.
How easy is it to change the name on the car in USA? Can you just go to an agent and say it's a 442, not a Cutlass, and they change it?
My agent thinks it came into Canada as a "442". Doesn't mean it did, though, I suppose.
What clues can we look for? What about under the side scoops? If the holes look factory as opposed to home-drilled, would that be a good clue?
I may have to e-mail Bro, but I thought I'd check with the membership here first. There must be various clues to look for. Anybody?
Does anyone know what happened to the broadcast sheets that were in the Fremont plant?

 

check on the frame for a z bar bracket, hole in the firewall for the clutch rod? had a rubber boot there, ill get some meas. for hole in floor,

 

Here is a site that you need to go to.

http://www.442bro.com/

I learned a lot and don't have a '65.

Mike

 

The frame will have 4 sets of holes where the upper control arms mount if it is a 442. Non 442's only have one set.

 

Actually, I heard back from Bro this morning. Sounds like a 4 speed car comes with a 442 frame in 65, and Fremont cars don't have the 4V on the tag, so if you cloned a 65 Fremont built 4 speed Cutlass into a 442, it would be almost impossible to tell. Fremont used broadcast sheets instead of the usual data plate info on the firewall.

 

seems to me your car has the 442 frame , your question is how do you know its a real 442 not just a 4 speed cutlass with the heavy duty frame from the factory

 

In 65 the 442 was not a model only an option even with badging so I dont think anything should read 442 on title or registrations. It should read f-85 or Cutlass. A 4 inch hole does not seem big enough to me to say factory 4spd car. Pictures would help. it is easy to badge a car any way you want.

 

Partly correct. Non 442s only have one set unless they came with a 4 speed manual (and possibly 3 speed manual) transmission, in which case they were given the 442 frame from the factory.

 

heres what my four speed hole looks like, ignore the nasty cuts, notice that its got a seperate piece over the cutout to accept a weather boot

IMG_7447.jpg

 

My car says 442 Foreign Import on the registration. I'm wondering if that's something that could have been altered in the US before it came to Canada, or is it pretty difficult to just have it changed.

 

Don't think my opening looks like that. Got to drop off a kid and have coffee with the old man now. After lunch I'll peel back the carpet and snap a photo. My descriptions leave much to be desired.

 

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but Fremont is about the best plant to find a build sheet on top of the gas tank. My '71 Buick GS455 had enough of a build sheet left to confirm Stage 1.
Steve

 

Excellent clue. Unfortunatly my gas tank was missing.

 

now you got me wondering how come my factory four speed car has a regular frame? because its canadian built?

 

Dave I know some times there is a sheet in the springs of the seats most likely it won't tell you if it had the 442 option but who knows .

 

Sorry to the members. Looks like I misled people. The carpet was actually glued to the underlay, which was glued to the floor, so I ripped as much as I could away from the floor to get a glimpse of the hump. Also jacked up the car and went right under with a trouble light. Looks like the hole is about where I would expect it to be for an auto console car, and about the correct size. Even has the four holes drilled. Guess I measured wrong. It would appear this had a factory console in it at some time, but no four speed. I put a metal circle on the hump about where the hole is for a picture.
Don't see any hole in the firewall for a clutch pedal rod, just one close with the speedometer cable in it.
The rear frame number looks to be right where a bracket has been welded to the frame in some previous adventure. I presume now the only way to actually prove 442 beyond any doubt would be to remove that bracket or get a peek at the frame number under the driver's door somehow.
At least I'm having fun, aren't I?

 

1. The "hole" for the clutch rod isnt really a hole. Its shared with the steering column, and is stamped into every firewall no matter the transmission. The interior plate that holds the column to the wall will have a hole in it and a boot if the car was a stick.



2. Stick shift car will have this on frame.



3. Floor hole for stick (slightly boogered up). Auto hole (if console equipped is round and directly on top of hump.

 

Are GM of Canada docs available for a 65?

 

Canada built cars only contact


George Zapora
General Motors of Canada
Vintage Vehicle Services
CA1-160-001
1908 Colonel Sam Drive
Oshawa, ON
Canada L1H 8P7

Phone: 905-440-7636
Fax: 905-440-7644

 

Stan, maybe check in with that info Oldstata provided in box 19. I'm curious myself, why the holes in the hump are different as well. TK's is totally different than yours. Maybe one is 4 speed, maybe one is 3 speed manual. What gives with the frame . Does your frame number match the vin? Maybe you can't see yours either. I'm tempted to spend some time with a mirror under the driver's door and try to see my upper surface frame numbers.
Maybe sometimes they just threw a body on whatever frame was available in some plants. Things that make you go Hmmmmm...

 

What about the column shift steering column seen in picture #16 jmho not 442.

 

I thought GM of Canada docs were available if
the car was imported into Canada and originally was sold new there irregardless of what plant they were built at, no?

That 70 4 speed Lansing built Cutlass pace car that was discussed here comes to mind as an example

 

I put that column in recently. It came from an f-85 4 door sedan. The column that was in the car was all falling apart. The turn signals were broken inside and the bottom plate was mangled. I think it, too, was a replacement with the shifter lever removed. We were replacing these things in the eighties, as they were already falling apart back then. Especially the manual steering columns seemed to take a beating on the bearings. This one is power, but who knows since when. Lots of manual steering cars were produced, in Canada anyway.
Feels like I found the bucket seat brackets under the carpet. I couldn't see them, but it feels like they're there.
I've got the correct floor shift column that came from a coupe I bought off Napoleon. I'm going to paint it black and put it in when time permits.

 

I don't think my avatar car was sold new in Canada. I believe it was brought up 15 or 20 years ago. Don't think the reg would say "Foriegn Import" if it was sold new here. I could be wrong, of course.

 

i have all the docs from gm canada, and george wont give me any more info cuz its been more than a month since i PAID for my search. he's clammed up. i guess looking at the frame no.'s is the only way. US fourspeed cars got the 442 frame, canadian cars , not sure. i know they didnt have any 400's in the mid to late 60's so all 442s were imported from the US. im sure the frames were just regular ones. hmmmm!

 

Correct, Mike. Made OR sold new in Canada.