Seff

I'm thinking of welding SSII centers into existing 15" wheel barrels/rims. Is it safe to do, or does it kill the strength of the wheel?

On one hand, the wheels are critical items on a car, and they take quite a beating. On the other hand, it seems the centers are welding in from the factory, so how dangerous can it be?

Sampson

How would you make sure that the centers were perfectly centered in the rim so that the wheel runs true?

Seff

I'd measure them one way or another, using a runout dial. Maybe construct a jig to ensure they're completely centered. Take it to a tire guy when I'm done and have him spin it to see if it's balanced or not.

I'd cut the original weld on the 14x7s and heat the rim to ease the removal of the center from the rim, then clean up the edges of the center and install it in the heated 15x10 rim, setting it correctly and then letting it cool off. Then I'd weld it, alternating sides like when tightening lug nuts.

My big worry is that I'll kill the strength of the wheel by heating it through the welding.

kitfoxdave

15" SSII's from Specialty Wheel to expensive to ship to Europe? As mentioned above you would need some type of fixturing to hold everything in place... and HOPEFULLY the heat from welding will not throw the rim out of round... Generally when you heat up formed pieces of metal, they tend to relax a bit from the heat from welding. I helped my uncle do this years ago using VW centers in a Cadillac rim for wide sand tires on a dune buggy... It worked, but we were lucky in those days!

joe_padavano

They are welded together from the factory, so yes, a properly made weld will be just fine.

Unfortunately, you have a different problem. The SSII/III wheels used a special outer barrel with more "drop" in the center than normal to match the O.D. of the wheel disk. Unless you can get 15" barrels with the correct drop, you won't be able to do this.

svnt442

Yup. They use the same size center on both the 14" and 15" wheels so special outters were made specifically for the 15" rims.
A friend of mine modifies wheels all the time, but he is an AWESOME body man and has been doing it for more than 20 years.

Seff

Joe: Good to know about the welds. I can find an experienced welder very easily.

Does this look like it has enough droop? Or am I going to encounter problems with this?

svnt442

Nope. Those would be a standard 15" wheel. If you measure the diameter of the centers you have you'll see what we are taling about.

Seff

Ah. I don't have them in my possession, so that's a bit difficult. That saves me the trouble of driving to pick them up, though. :P

EDIT: This is the amount of step I should be looking for, isn't it?

svnt442

Well that is a SSII/SSIII bolt on center. Don't look at the tire side for the measurement you need, but the inside diameter where the center will go. No other wheel made uses the same size center and the Olds SSII/SSIII wheels do, but I think a couple of companies make aftermarket outters specifically designed for making them into larger rims. You won't be able to scrounge the outters from other wheels and make it work.

Seff

I was looking at the amount of indentation in the center part of the rim, inside which the center is welded on. I was comparing that indentation to the indentation on the first rims depicted. It being SSII/SSIII bolt-on centers is a good thing, since it's the same kind of center I was thinking of putting in a larger rim.

But, since the rim inner step diameter is unique for SSII wheels, it's useless to look for outers here. I'll have to find custom wheels of some sort, then.

Seff

So, I find out that welding your own wheels is highly illegal over here. Dammit.

I was going to order these, but they're apparently not DOT-approved. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aeo-51-004755

Second choice was to get similar wheels at the local tire guy. He claims he runs 15x10 rims with 5" backspace and 15x8 BS 4.5 rims on his 70 Cutlass. According to what I've read here, that shouldn't work.

Pictures of that:

joe_padavano

Just out of curiosity, how would anyone ever know you welded them yourself?

MDchanic

Yeah. Are the Welding Polizei going to break down your door?


If you're worried about the Welding Polizei, shouldn't you be concerned about whether they're TUV approved?

- Eric

Seff

In case of an accident where my car is involved, they typically inspect every detail of the car if they suspect foul play. If it's proven (by lack of inspection mark, etc) then my insurance doesn't cover any of my liabilities.



I guess so, but if they aren't DOT approved, what're the chances they're TÜV approved?

MDchanic

Even if the wheels had nothing to do with the accident?
Not to sound political, but stuff like that is why, when push comes to shove, this country tends to vote much more conservatively than a lot of economic and social models would suggest that it should.
Intolerable.

Also, for whatever it's worth, if you had a good clear picture of one of those stamp marks, I'm sure you could find someone over here in the US who could make a metal stamp for you, so you could have the peace of mind.

I hate paper-pushers.

- Eric

ps: Wisenheimer mit dem Umlaut. Technischer Überwachungsverein. Indeed.

Seff

I thought I'd use the Umlaut now that I have it.

No, only if the car is suspected of being illegally modified. It all comes down to how much I trust my own welding, I guess.

I too am not fond of the amount of rules we have in this country, but otherwise I like the social system a lot. The average standard of living is pretty great compared to most other places.

Professur

When Quebec went to mandatory 4 winter tires a few years back, a co-worker was in a fender bender. Not his fault, but the police noticed he was still on 4 season tires and cited him for it. The insurance caught wind of it and refused his claim .. on the grounds that the car wasn't roadworthy at the time of the incident.

MDchanic

Can't argue with that.

- Eric

Seff

Professur: They do something similar here, if they can get away with it. To make sure the insurance companies don't do that, the government prohibits homemade wheels.

Eric: The only reason I'm not having an open discussion about systems of government is that it's prohibited on these boards; I don't mind people criticizing our system. :P

rootney

Check out www.stocktonwheel.com.
They do custom stuff. the site doesn't specifically speak to Olds wheels, but they invite folks to call. I'd love to be able to run fat boys on custom SSIII rims, but haven't called them yet as I'm in the middle of an engine build, right now.

George

Seff

George: I sure see an Olds wheel of some sort here: http://www.stocktonwheel.com/specialty.html Nice link, thank you.

rootney

If you contact them, please let us all know the outcome.
As I said, I'm interested in doing the same.

Regards,

George

Seff

I've inquired as to a quote. A set of 15x8 BS 5", and a set of 15x10 BS 5.5".

MDchanic

No criticism. "Let he who is without son throw the first stone."

I've lived in Europe and quite liked it.

- Eric

Seff

Ah yes - Italy, right?

MDchanic

Essattamente.

- Eric

Seff

Very charismatic people. :P

joe_padavano

My point is that aftermarket wheels with custom sizes (think the Wheel Vintiques 15x8 SSIII wheels, for example) are presumably allowed. I'm pretty sure these do not carry factory stampings. How would they know that your welded wheels were build by you and not an aftermarket vendor?

MDchanic

There is actually a good chance that they have to be approved by some EU body and coded a certain way in order to be sold legally there.

Brussels is getting nuttier and nuttier about all kinds of insignificant BS, and employs armies of pencil pushers to create reams of detailed requirements for all sorts of things you'd never think needed to have requirements.

The recent brouhaha about the illegality of restaurants in Italy having a bottle of olive oil on every table is an example - someone in Brussels had decided that all food placed on tables must be in sealed, single-use containers for the sake of cleanliness.

This is becoming a serious issue in the EU (at least in the more permissive southern countries). It's all well and good for the Germans to have an exact requirement for the size of a grain of salt, or the smoothness of the surface of a highway, but the Italians and the Greeks might not find that sort of specificity normal and healthy.

- Eric

Seff

I'm not sure, since I don't know how the importers of custom wheels mark them. Could most likely get away with it, of course.

Eric: Yes, they're making rules to make rules. Hopefully they'll get smarter soon.

rootney

Seff,
Did Stockton wheel give you a quote?

George

Seff

Nope, haven't heard a word from them.