ClassicOldsmobile.com  

Go Back   ClassicOldsmobile.com > Repair & Restoration > Transmission and Driveline > Transmission
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Welcome to Classic Oldsmobile Forum!
Welcome to Classic Oldsmobile forum,

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join Classic Oldsmobile Forum today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #1
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
muncie 4 speed trans keeps poping out of 2nd gear.. why?

supposedly, this trans was recently rebuilt, so there shouldnt be anything wrong with it. but, while coasting in 2nd gear it tend to pop out in to neutral, is there any way to adjust it? its a 72 olds with a chevy 402 bb fyi every other gear is nice and smooth
any input is much apriciated
thanks joe
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2010, 10:43 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,777
Possibilities:
linkage won't push the fork all the way into second
ball check/spring to hold fork in second is missing
bad synchro, synchro shoes missing (most likely)
Olds hates having a Chevy engine in it

It's been a while since I had a Munchy apart and so I hope I didn't get anything confused with the truck trannies I've seen more recently, like ball checks etc.
Run to Rund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 15th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #3
Registered User
 
MN71W30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oakdale, Minnesota
Posts: 1,134
I would say it may be the sync clutch sliding sleeve. Thats what they call them on an exploded view of a Muncie. I always call them the shift collars. If you google it, you'll find a pic of it. They get worn and loose and rattle their way out of gear.
__________________
"the guy that puts the most miles on their Olds, wins"
MN71W30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2010, 06:12 AM   #4
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
Sounds kinda costly, and if anything it's prob. something I'd repair myself, that way I get to learn how to do it, iv done a bit of engine assembly, but never been in a tans. Is there anyway to conferm the issue
Plus I thought, a bad syncro means it would have a hard time going into gear, not issues falling out, am I wrong?
Thanks for the help
Joe
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2010, 07:21 AM   #5
Registered User
 
MN71W30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oakdale, Minnesota
Posts: 1,134
Bad Syncro's won't slow the gear down for the shift causing a grind. If you are a mechanically minded person the job isn't too bad. It would be best to get a wrench to loosen the input shaft nut. At least you won't have to pull out the cluster. Read up on it, maybe a tranny expert can confirm my opinion. Take your time and you'll be surprised that it isn't that big of deal.
__________________
"the guy that puts the most miles on their Olds, wins"
MN71W30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2010, 09:34 AM   #6
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
good info thanks you
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16th, 2010, 11:29 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,777
get a factory service manual on ebay, or join the olds perf. club for $9.95 and download it.
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990286665833
Run to Rund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2010, 07:05 AM   #8
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
i tried aligning the shift rods, and it still slips out,(no surprise) should i take the side panel off and check the gears for wear?
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2010, 09:51 AM   #9
Registered User
 
MN71W30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oakdale, Minnesota
Posts: 1,134
I think that would be a waste of time and you would really need to know the fine details of what issues to look for. The selecters have a system that prevents the transmission from being in more than one gear at a time. This also positively holds it in the selected gear. A failure in this system could cause it to fall out of gear but I have never seen something happen like that. I got my money on a loose collar. I hate to give you bad news but I think you need to pull the tranny.
__________________
"the guy that puts the most miles on their Olds, wins"
MN71W30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #10
Registered User
 
69oldsguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Idaho
Posts: 117
This symptom is far more common in 4th gear. It indicates the gear face angle is sloped off or in the case of 4th gear the bearings have worn and it is allowing the input shaft to tilt. The fact that it kicks out on a decel is the key. by loading the other side of the gear it pushes the cluster the opposite direction. I'm afraid to fix this there is no option but to remove the trans and inspect 2nd gear and find out what is actually causing the off angle on the face of the gear. The gear face is worn or slop on the main shaft or the inside of the gear that rides on the shaft. Look at 2nd gear and let us know what you find. Just thinking about this, it could possibly also be the cluster. Either way, it is a trip inside to find out.
Kevin
__________________
69 Cutlass S
69oldsguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2010, 07:13 AM   #11
Registered User
 
MN71W30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: oakdale, Minnesota
Posts: 1,134
I saw an old Doug Nash 5 speed that had 4th gear wobbling on the shaft. But that old 70's design used a brass or some other material ring pressed into the gear that had wear. I'm not an expert but have had many apart over the years and it seems that vibration of some sort rattles them out of gear. Someone may have switched the 3-4 collar with the 1-2 during the rebuilding process. It is hard to tell a good one from a bad one.
__________________
"the guy that puts the most miles on their Olds, wins"
MN71W30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kenosha, Wi.
Posts: 80
When a Muncie under decceleration slips or jumps out of 2nd gear usually its a bad gear or slider, or both...

When this trans was rebuilt, what new parts were used??? Crash
crash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 10:04 AM   #13
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
im not sure.. all i know is the guy i bought it from said the guy he bought it from had the engine, trans., and rearend all rebuilt at the same time..
thats all i know
is there any way to tell if it needs new gears or sliders without takeing the trans. out?
thanks
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 10:33 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Nilsson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by joealexander1234 View Post
im not sure.. all i know is the guy i bought it from said the guy he bought it from had the engine, trans., and rearend all rebuilt at the same time..
thats all i know
is there any way to tell if it needs new gears or sliders without takeing the trans. out?
thanks

You have no choice but to take the tranny out. Either you were lied to or the trans was rebuilt incorrectly.

Do it right the first time .
__________________

_If it doesn't have a clutch, you don't have much.__________________________________________


http://motorhead43026.tripod.com/two...vorite_things/


68 442, original engine and 4-speed transmission (Nasty)
69 Cougar 33,000 original miles (Nice)
2003 Honda Accord boring,anemic,dependable (Ho Hum)

"No matter how fast I go, I still can't pass that gas station."
Nilsson is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 11:15 AM   #15
Registered User
 
d2_willys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: earth
Posts: 226
Thrust washers and proper clearance is very important when rebuilding. It may be possible that when you let off on the power that the input or tailshaft is sliding fore and aft, therefore causing the disengagement of gear.

If the linkage is adjusted properly then the following in this order need checking:

Shift forks
syncro hub and sliding sleeve, this includes springs and ***** and the detent grooves that these engage
thrust washers and clearance.
d2_willys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 12:17 PM   #16
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
thanks guys...big help
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 01:00 PM   #17
Land Yacht Captain
 
66ninetyeightls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Shelburne, Ontario
Posts: 1,719
@CoitusMysterios
Do munchies not have detents to hold it in gear? Worn detents is what causes modern manuals to pop out of gear.
__________________
Craig
1966 Ninety Eight LS
__________________________________________________ ________________________
66ninetyeightls is online now   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2010, 09:14 PM   #18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Shorewood, Il.
Posts: 3,057
Usually the reason for 'popping out' is what others have said - worn 1-2 slider and 2 on the mainshaft!
Missed 1-2 shift is usually the reason - from sloppy or worn-out linkage, and/or bad synchros.
Edges of the gears get worn-down and rounded.
If you've never had one apart, find someone who has, as there's about 100 needle bearings, that fall all over, and 3 or 4 different sizes!
Overhaul kits are available, as are most parts, individually.
Not for the inexperienced, as one bearing not installed correctly, will produce around 80 pounds of junk!
I used to skip second and not downshift to promote longevity - helps the motor too!
Rickman48 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2010, 12:50 PM   #19
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
well im going to be ordering a rebuild kit, but there are alot of opinions when it comes to what the problem may. any suggestions on what i should order? should i order new gaskets, and syncros?, new gaskets and 2nd gear?, gaskets, and sliders?, sorry for if its a dumb question but im really pretty new to transmisions
thanks
joe
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Chesrown 67 OAI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dover, Ohio
Posts: 764
Quote:
Originally Posted by joealexander1234 View Post
well im going to be ordering a rebuild kit, but there are alot of opinions when it comes to what the problem may. any suggestions on what i should order? should i order new gaskets, and syncros?, new gaskets and 2nd gear?, gaskets, and sliders?, sorry for if its a dumb question but im really pretty new to transmisions
thanks
joe
Most advise here is sound and correct. My opinion is that you have combination of worn and rounded small teeth on the 2nd gear (not the large teeth) and the edges of the slider teeth are equally rounded. Both caused by missed shifts. sorry -- your fix is to replace 2nd gear and new slider. Smart money says to install a whole new synchronizer while your at it instead of just changing the slider. Cluster gear need not be removed for this job so you dont have to fight all those needle bearings on the cluster shaft. You will still have the larger needle bearing in the rear of the input shaft to deal with but thats minor.
MOO! ( My Opinion Only)!!! My advise is free --- and remember -- you get what you pay for in the real world!!! LOL
__________________

1967 W30 Tribute car
1942 Olds Model #66 Club Coupe
Chesrown 67 OAI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #21
Registered User
 
joealexander1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 42
great in info, thank you
ill order up a gasket set, 2nd gear, the slider, and sync.
joealexander1234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 13th, 2010, 06:26 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Posts: 493
FWIW there is a difference in rebuilt and fixed in most cases these days. someone puts new seals and/or bearings in and they consider it rebuilt. this is a common problem with most things starters being the worst. they clean the armature and install new brushes and sell it as rebuilt but the cause of the problem (usually worn bushings) never gets repaired. this is one of the reasons that "rebuilt" means nothing to me unless I talk to the rebuilder and know exactly what was done.
compedgemarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 10:13 AM   #23
Texas Jim
 
Texas Jim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Killeen, Texas
Posts: 437
Pops out of 2nd. gear-very common gear f/ them to be worn., worn synchros. does that.
__________________
anything mechanical...Why I'm Here: '62 Ford pick-up w/ '71 Olds 455ci/TH400/9" Ford.
Texas Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 14th, 2010, 10:13 AM
ClassicOldsmobile
1957 Oldsmobile




Paid Advertisement
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Richmond gear 5 speed complete conversion WTony Parts For Sale 6 November 3rd, 2009 03:54 PM
2nd gear start in 50 Olds 98 d2_willys Transmission 5 September 19th, 2008 06:07 AM
Trans gear z11375ss General Discussion 10 August 12th, 2008 06:52 PM
3 Speed hydramatic 1963 F85 Driven gear nigelf Transmission 2 March 7th, 2008 04:33 AM
New and need an Olds 303 to Muncie trans adapter cowboy76 Eighty-Eight 0 July 5th, 2006 10:03 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:08 PM.


Advertising - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Jobs
All content Copyright 2008 by Internet Brands, Inc.