Jen

I was lucky! Now I think it is shifting too soon. Which it did not do until I got it back from leak repair. My dad said it should be an easy adjustment....

Jen

This transmission hates me. I love the idea of having the original hydramatic, however, I drive the heck outta this thing and it just won't quit leaking! I am thinking of swapping it for the 200r4. I drove it to a car show a couple hours away, the whole way back I blew transmission fluid all over the nice 62 Impala behind me. oops. So, I just don't feel this transmission can keep up with the kind of miles I am putting on Jezebel. Thoughts on a switch? I would also like increased performance and speed.

Olds Dad

I do know that Ross Racing Engines (and maybe others) make an adapter for the 700R4 and TH400 - to bolt to the 324. It's an option for sure - I know the Ross one is designed so you don't have to mess with the floors - I think others may require sheet metal mods.

I will say that this undertaking is not for the faint of heart - don't know personally as I've never done it - but you'll drop a few hundred on the adapter, similar for a trans, then labor and incidentals. Not sure about starter compatibility, throttle / kickdown linkage. Tony at Ross would be the guy to talk to.

That being said, for your reasons, could be a viable option - may want to get one more opinion on your exisiting trans first though - if it can be fixed (yes, I know - again), it may be a lot less.

My 2 cents

Tedd Thompson

Jen, It's probably nothing that can't be fixed MUCH cheaper than a 200r4 conversion. Last time I checked it was around $1100 bucks for the adapter alone. These are good transmissions and quite reliable, we will often take road trips that amount to 1200- 1500 miles with no problems what so ever with no worries. I would check back with the shop that resealed your transmission last time, they should be able to find that large of a leak and fix you up for cheep... Tedd

Jen

Thank you both for the response. When I was having the exhaust leak fixed, after the transmission leak was fixed, we noticed what looked like tranny fluid pouring out again. We tightened the pan bolts and I took it back to the transmission shop. They didn't see a leak, which could be, since we had just tightened the bolts. Then, a few days later, I drove it to Sanford, a couple hours away. On the way back, my friend was following behind. When we pulled over and checked my fluids, it was transmission fluid that was low. I guy at the show had offered me a free working hydramatic....why didn't I grab it!!!!! I am just thinking I drive this car sooooo much, should I just invest in the other transmission? I saw the adapter was quite expensive, I can get the transmission for a couple hundred bucks. Labor is free. I don't know. Maybe I should just call up the guy in Sanford and go back and grab that hydramatic.

Olds Dad

I'd do that - call him up, ask him what beer he likes, and get that (always good to have a spare anyway) - if labor is free (blood, sweat, and tears aside) then that could be an option.

Funny sidebar: In '97 I attended the Oldsmobile Centennial in Lansing - 8 of us hired a commercial car carrier to get our cars there - (what a sight that was - my '71 Supreme, my dad's '61 Starfire, my friend's '62 Starfire, a 68 442 convertible, a '60 S-88 Convertible - and more..) Well, my friend's '62 starfire was parked "under" the 60 S-88 for the journey - and it's transmission leaked about 2 quarts of trans fluid all over the '62 starfire - which was so fresh you could still smell the paint - when we got to Lansing, we discovered the mess - my friend, who owned the '62 starfire (victim car) was flying in - we decided, in the interest of his cardiac health , to wash off his car and take the secret to our graves...which worked until the next day when the sun came out and warmed up all the trans oil that we missed - try answering "hey, why is my windshield leaking transmission fluid". Let's say we laugh about it now...

Cratethis

While I don't disagree with what the others are saying, sometimes a change is what you need. I'd love to find everything needed to change mine to a manual trans.

I came across this site, don't know about their quality but thought I'd pass it on...

http://www.forwhatyouneed.com/transm...conversion.htm

d2_willys

I have heard some really bad things about Tanson. Would not recommend! Ross Racing has been doing TH400 conversions for Oldsmobiles for a few years and is quality. Might want to look them up.

As far as the 55 transmission, I would try and find out exactly where it is leaking from first. It might turn out to be something simple such as side cover gasket. If it is major, such as case crack, then make a decision as to which way to go. I, personally would rebuild a 55 hydramatic before doing a conversion.

Cratethis

Like I said, I know nothing about that group. I have worked with Ross and that is the direction I'd go if I was making a change.

I'm on the hunt for an original bell housing to convert mine over. Not in a hurry so I'm just keeping my eyes open in case I happen to come across one for a deal.

d2_willys

Original bell housing, for what transmission? The TH400 has the bell housing integral with the case. Ross Racing machines the old bell housing off the case and replaces it with their billeted adapter, which uses the front pump bolts for fastening.

Cratethis

If you'd read my eaeiler post, I'm want to convert my 324 to a manual trans.

d2_willys

Sorry about the confusion, my mistake. But Tanson is not a good idea!

Jen

I will look into all of this. I would love to keep it, but I have had it back in multiple times now to try and figure out the leak. They have changed gaskets and seals, ect....still leaking. Then it will stop. Then it starts leaking again. Again, I drive it too often for this.

Cratethis

Understand! You expect repairs and things to spring up with a car this old. But once you've fixed a part and you keep having to fix it, it becomes disheartening. After a while you just become done with the whole thing.

I had a car like that. Wish I still had it but the same thing kept breaking and it just became too frustrating. So it was time for another owner to worry about its issues. I miss the car but not the headache it caused.

Good luck Jen. You seem like a determined individual and I'm sure you'll figure out a solution.

Cratethis

No worries. Thanks for passing on the word to steer clear of Tanson.

d2_willys

Jen: I am totally into what you are going through. I had a 54 hydramatic years ago that did some weird leaking of it's own. It would leak if it sat for two days or more. I believe it was something along the driver side of the transmission. I changed the side cover gasket, along with sealing the lower side cover bolts with gasket sealer. Seems like nothing worked. If you drove the car everyday, then no leak. My guess is that it might have been the selector lever seals that are at the upper side of the side cover. I finally sold the car, but never did find the leak.

My suggestion is that you keep putting a piece of cardboard, preferably white under the transmission and narrow it down to where the leak seems to be coming from. Then go from there.

If by any chance that the transmission is leaking at the back of the transmission (driveshaft yoke area), you might want to check to see if the driveshaft is suppose to have a plug (kinda like a concave freeze plug) in the yoke where the u-joint goes. I had a truck that I could not find the leak. I took the truck to a transmission shop, and they showed me the driveshaft. The freeze plug was gone. So anything is possible.

Jetstar 88

Your leak problem may be coming from irregularities on the sealing surfaces, not the seals themselves. Of course, if the Hydra is burning fluid, that's a whole other can of worms.
There should be rebuilding services out there for these transmissions that can get everything working like new.

Jen

It always drips from the cross member and pan area. It doesn't always leak lately. When I took it back to the transmission shop, they said it wasn't leaking and that I was seeing an oil leak. Back in my garage after our long journey, it was definitely tranny fluid, with a hint of oil.

d2_willys

Jen: Can you expand a little on what the transmission shop replaced when they sealed it up? Did they in fact drop the transmission and replace the front seal, the torus cover to flywheel gasket, and any other seals/gaskets that require transmission removal? They obviously replaced the side cover gasket, but did they replace the shifter seals, lower pan gasket, dipstick o-ring, and rear seal?

From what you describe, it sounds like the leak is in the front portion of the transmission, as the crossmember is at the bell housing for the side transmission mounts. I would remove the small cover with 2 bolts in the lower bell housing and inspect in there. It might also be leaking around the torus cover drain plug.

Try wiping off the transmission, then place white cardboard under the whole transmission with some weight on the cardboard. This will keep the cardboard from being blown around. Run the engine in Neutral till engine warms up, then with the emergency brake applied, try shifting between DR,S, Lo, and R, then back to Neutral. See if the leak shows up more clearly.

johns59super88

Hey Jen. A couple of things not mentioned/suggested are:
1. Often, pans are overtightened to the point of distorting the metal of the pan right where the bolt{s} are. This results in little divots where the bolt heads are which further results in a "wavy" pan edge that leaks some. I examine the pan and flatten the divots back so the pan's sealing surface is true and flat. Then I'm careful about tightening then pan. All too often, when a leak appears, people will try and re-tighten the pan which exacerbates the problem.
2. I'm not totally sure what your tranny looks like but many parts have bolt holes that are not blind. That is, they go through the casting and the bolt threads are exposed to the fluids, oil, etc inside the casting. These bolt holes can leak when hot and the component is under pressure. Many pan bolt holes are like this. These types of bolts should have a sealant applied to the threads to prevent leaks like this. I use non-hardening Permatex on the threads and both sides of a cork gasket. People may take exception to this but I don't have leaks. (Having said that, I probably will now! )

Lastly, just in case you are counting votes, I hope you don't change transmissions. Your car is awesome the way it is! Hope some of this helps.
John

Jen

First, yes I am counting votes...I get highly defensive when people start to trash talk the rocket engine or my transmission that I am not always fond of. But they are mine.

I do feel like it has something to do with the beat up pan. When it was leaking again, we retightened the bolts, then it stopped for a bit. Then it started again. The transmission shop did mention that the pan was beat up and that they didn't want to stress it anymore than needed. So, next question, is it possible to just replace the pan and see if that helps? Remember I am new to this, so if that is silly, let me know! Just seems if that is all that it may need, why do anything to the rest?? I think I have a picture of it somewhere so you can see how beat up it is.

Olds Dad

Jen - I've been loosely following this thread, so if this has been mentioned already, I apologize: But, on the side pan (the one where the throttle / selector linkage goes through), the bolts along the bottom of that pan have special copper/brass washers and the service manual stresses that those be placed there to avoid leaks. Also, I found that the rubber O-ring that goes inside the pan, behind the selector shaft, is hard to find (the correct one) - the correct one is 'stepped', and not just a simple o-ring. I wonder if the shop was aware of these two issues. With respect to replacing just the pan, that is definately not a bad idea if yours is mis-shapen - new is likely not going to happen, but there are a lot around - but try this guy http://www.autotran.us/ - he'll be able to send you the correct o-ring and possibly will have a pan for you. He's very reasonable pricewise as well.

If it makes you feel any better, my '55 driver recently stopped leaking transmission fluid - I think I got the special order "clotting" transmission - or maybe Stephen King is writing a book about her!

Jen

All great suggestions! I am feeling a little more confident in my abilities lately, so I think I will get to the garage and check all of these things. Before, I was terrified to touch anything having to do with the transmission. At this point, might as well dive in and see what I can figure out. Can't get much worse. Or can it?

I will try to hunt down a "better" pan. I will have to grab the paperwork to let you know exactly what they changed at the transmission shop. Transmission is my top priority this week.

Tedd Thompson

No Gorden, it just ran out of fluid........Tedd

johns59super88

Hi again Jen. If the pan is beat up I think it is definitely worth replacing. If you have a pic of it, that would be good to see. I looked further back in the thread and noticed where you said they shop ordered new seals, etc. Also where they said the leak was fixed, then said it again, then said it was motor oil.

I liked D2Willy's suggestion where he said "Try wiping off the transmission, then place white cardboard under the whole transmission with some weight on the cardboard. This will keep the cardboard from being blown around. Run the engine in Neutral till engine warms up, then with the emergency brake applied, try shifting between DR,S, Lo, and R, then back to Neutral. See if the leak shows up more clearly." But if it is dripping from the cross member, you'll want the cardboard between the cross member and pan so you can pinpoint exactly the site of the leak. This may or may not be possible. Also, I would go a step further than simply wiping the tranny. I would use some type of cleaner/solvent that dries quickly that will leave the transmission surfaces TOTALLY DRY. That way you can spot even a little bit of ooze. You may want to use a good light and a mirror. The one in your purse is perfect! It's pretty hard to see up there so you'll have to get up close but you'll find it!


I am beginning to feel suspicious about the tranny shop. Can't tell about the quality of their work but they should at least stand behind it from a customer service standpoint. If you said it leaks then it leaks! Maybe you have to leave it there for a few days and let them drive it around and keep checking it. Bottom line, they said it was fixed and it ain't!

Finally, I think your questions and ideas are spot on and not at all silly! You can work elbow to elbow with me anytime! It's really great to see your natural curiosity and inclination to get dirty to solve the problem!

John

Jen

I will take a picture when I get home. I am definitely going to spend time on this over the weekend. I am done with the transmission shop, one of those, nevermind, I will figure it out myself kinda situations. The guys that regularly help me out are very pro-get rid of the hydramatic....but I am not giving up yet (besides I don't have the $1000 it will take to switch it right now). Plus, it gives me the chance to learn more about transmissions, yay. It needs to make a couple of trips over the next month or two, all less than two hours long. Just keep pouring in the tranny fluid for now and all is ok. Also, the guy at autotran.us said he thinks he has a new pan, he will get back to me. I will keep you all posted and thanks for the help!

d2_willys

If you can get the new pan, then hopefully the leak will be fixed. I have no idea of what type of gasket is supplied for the hydros, but I myself will NOT use a paper composition gasket. I typically use 1/8" thick cork composition gasket material and cut it myself to the pan. I have done many Ford C4 transmission fluid drains and have found that the cork compostion seals the best.

I would also take OLDSDAD's advice and try some soft copper/brass washers at the lower bolts of the side cover. And if you can get the seal for the shifter from Autotran.us, then try that too.

Like I said, HYDRAMATICS are tough transmissions, and will last if taken care of . I personally will never change out my Hydramatics for something else, in fact I am changing out other boxes for the hydramatic.

Keep your persistence, and this will work out. Again, any pics would help. You can PM me with pics or other questions on the hydramatic, and of course the Oldsmobile itself.

Jen

I don't know if you can see all the bends and space in the seam. The last picture I tried to do a closeup.

d2_willys

Jen: Tried to reply to your pictures, but reply was lost when I sent the message. I will try and recreate this evening, and put some pics of what may help diagnose the leak area.

Jen

Thanks!

johns59super88

Well Jen, from what I can see, your pan(s) definitely are distorted but unless I missed something in the pics, they can be saved! Looks like the bolts were over tightened as described a few posts earlier. I would remove them and have someone who knows their way around working metal straighten them out. Don't need a torch or anything like that, just time and the right tools to get a good smooth straight surface again. It basically involves beating the surfaces back into alignment. Then clean all the gasket surfaces on the pan(s) and the transmission with a solvent and dry them before reassembly. You really shouldn't need any kind of sealer but you have danced with this problem so long that I think you should use a sealant on both sides of the gaskets! Definitely use new gaskets no matter how "good" the old ones look. We want this issue to go away! And check on whether the bolt threads need sealer. Again, I would use non-hardening Permatex. When the pans are tightened, follow the torque specs. If someone does it for you, threaten them something if they overtighten!

That's my two cents worth. We'll see what the experts say!

John

Jen

I am going to give it a try! My dad is coming to visit. I unfortunately believe that I have a bad cylinder. So, he will be helping me with that. While we wait to get it back, we might as well tackle transmission leaking, especially since I will have my most trusted garage mentor. Yay awesome dad! His Florida vacation will be spent with my Olds. sounds like a good vacation to me.

Intragration

I would take the pans off and clean them up really good, get all the old material off. Then put them face down on a flat surface and using some light, see how badly warped they are. If the areas right by the bolts are warped, i.e. many waves over the whole gasket surface, this would seem to be more of a problem and would need to be corrected. But if the whole thing is generally just slightly warped, i.e. the whole pan is twisted slightly, this SHOULD work itself out when all the bolts are installed and tightened properly. I agree with using a new gasket and sealing it on both sides. Get everything perfectly clean with no sealer or gasket residue, clean all the surfaces with acetone or alcohol, and then redo them, tightening them in a star pattern, loosely at first, and then tighter and tighter up to spec. (I'm pretty **** about doing this tightening routine very slowly and deliberately, doing the star pattern five or more times) Not a bad idea to use sealer on the bolts I suppose, although I haven't personally had to do this. They don't have to be very tight, the most important thing is doing it gradually, in a star pattern like when tightening a wheel.

d2_willys

OK Jen, here goes:

Looking at the attached drawing shows a piece of cardboard that is used to shield the front of the transmission from the pan area. What the purpose is? To place in vehicle and then drive around a few miles, then inspect the cardboard to see if it has any fluid on it, side closest to crossmember. If fluid, then it sounds like the leak is toward the front of the transmission, and not the pan areas. If the cardboard has no fluid, then the pan areas will be wet with leaking fluid. Thought this might narrow down the culprit area. Good luck.

hydramatic test.jpg

Jen

Good thinking! I love the creativity and ingenuity this brings out in people.

Cratethis

Any progress updates on the trans?

Jen

We pulled the heads off before I tried to find the leak again. My dad had very limited time here. We will put them back on in about two weeks (have to wait for him to fly back). Then, will start on the transmission again......

Jen

I copy/pasted all of the suggestions from here into a word document and printed. I ordered the second rocker arm assembly, missing bolts and a spin on oil filter kit today. So after dad and I get the Olds back together, we can see what can be done with this transmission situation. It will help to have Dad do this with me, as I tend to make HUGE messes when it comes to working on ANYTHING. I have so far spilled many gallons of gas when completing the tank repair project, sent antifreeze spewing all over the garage when I pulled the manifolds off (I didn't know that would happen) and also sprayed lubricant all over my windshield when trying to take care of my super busted hood hinge. Good thing I have my own garage now. People were probably ready to boot me out of theirs. Live and ya learn.