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I am pretty sold on the idea of replacing my wimpy Jetaway with a 200-4R in my 1967 Holiday Coupe, with a 330 Ultra High Compression. I will eventually be rebuilding my 330 and I hope to build it to 350 to 375 HP (so not to stock specs and not a monster racer). So, my question is, where to go for this trans? I see one a JEGS that seems OK but I’m not sure they have the heat treated stator. I’ve heard really good things about Art Carr as well. I also wonder if there are other good choices out there. I would love to hear your opinions as well as your choices for a lockup.
Extreme as mentioned above.
Dave Husek of Turbo Buick Performance or Chris Kokonis of CK, both in Long Island, NY
”The Real Art Carr” at California Performance Trans (doesn’t like lockup)
Bow tie Overdrives seems to be well regarded but I have never had contact with anyone running their trans.
There was a well regarded shop in Texas and I can’t presently recall the name, also Jake’s in Texas but I think he has walked away from 200’s.
If you want a Texas based builder, contact Mike Kurtz at Century Automotive in Richmond, TX. He was one of the first guys to make these transmissions last behind high horsepower engines. Here's a link to his website.
If you want a Texas based builder, contact Mike Kurtz at Century Automotive in Richmond, TX. He was one of the first guys to make these transmissions last behind high horsepower engines. Here's a link to his website.
Ok, I will be pulling the trigger on a TH200-4R soon. I think I’ve decided on a 2200/2800 stall lockup torque converter. What will I need to do to keep my current stock floor shifter (1967 CS Holiday Coupe with console shifter on a 2sp JetAway)?
Ok, I will be pulling the trigger on a TH200-4R soon. I think I’ve decided on a 2200/2800 stall lockup torque converter. What will I need to do to keep my current stock floor shifter (1967 CS Holiday Coupe with console shifter on a 2sp JetAway)?
Another question. I currently have a Jetaway with a Switch Pitch torque converter. Could I use the wire from the Jetaway to power the lockup on a 200-R4, or is that no bueno?
Another question. I currently have a Jetaway with a Switch Pitch torque converter. Could I use the wire from the Jetaway to power the lockup on a 200-R4, or is that no bueno?
Not sure exactly what you're asking. There are two wires on the Jetaway. One provides +12V to the kickdown solenoid at wide open throttle. The other provides +12V to the converter pitch solenoid at idle and at W.O.T. Neither of those is what you want for the lockup function.
Not sure exactly what you're asking. There are two wires on the Jetaway. One provides +12V to the kickdown solenoid at wide open throttle. The other provides +12V to the converter pitch solenoid at idle and at W.O.T. Neither of those is what you want for the lockup function.
I was afraid of that, it seemed way to simple. Lol!
I was afraid of that, it seemed way to simple. Lol!
Thanks!
If you connect the pedal end of the kickdown wire to your NEW lock-up circuit (which circuit to use is a whole other debate), you can certainly use that same wire at the transmission end to power the lockup TC in your 200-4R. This allows you to avoid fishing a new wire to do that. I think all that Joe was worried about is that you can't use those wires at the "receiving" end (transmission) without changing how the signal at the sending end (under dash or engine compartment) is generated. I re-used (rather, re-purposed) the kickdown wire from my Jetaway for my 200-4R lockup, and it works just fine. Its just a wire, it can do anything you want as long as you connect both ends to the proper signal (lock-up circuit) and load (lock-up solenoid connection on the trans).
If you connect the pedal end of the kickdown wire to your NEW lock-up circuit (which circuit to use is a whole other debate), you can certainly use that same wire at the transmission end to power the lockup TC in your 200-4R. This allows you to avoid fishing a new wire to do that. I think all that Joe was worried about is that you can't use those wires at the "receiving" end (transmission) without changing how the signal at the sending end (under dash or engine compartment) is generated. I re-used (rather, re-purposed) the kickdown wire from my Jetaway for my 200-4R lockup, and it works just fine. Its just a wire, it can do anything you want as long as you connect both ends to the proper signal (lock-up circuit) and load (lock-up solenoid connection on the trans).
Exactly. Can you reuse the copper? Of course. The issue is what you use to trigger the lockup solenoid and when. The other problem is that the factory ran the lockup wire through a brake pedal switch as a fail safe. This way if the wire stayed energized, stepping on the brake opened the circuit and released the converter lock. By the time you re-route this wire, change the connectors, and implement the right lockup control, it isn't clear that there's a lot of benefit in using the kickdown wire as opposed to simply running a new one.
This was a great lead for a replacement trans. I currently have a 200R4 in my 79 Cutlass mated with a 3:08 posi and I was wondering where to go/what to do once this transmission kicks, its been in the car 15 years or so and would prefer to replace it rather than rebuild the one in it. The issue is would the transmissions Extreme sells be overkill as I have a factory rebuilt spec Olds 260 currently in the car which is pushing out a wheezing 110 HP tops. I may someday get a factory spec Olds 350 R motor (rebuilt) as in the 79 Hurst Olds or a Delta 88 for it but even that won't carry more than 200hp, so higher HP is not really something I will ever have in this car.
I'm not ever planning to drop in a high HP motor in this car, just something mild that will last another 36 years and 100,000++++ miles on long driving trips. I've had this car since 1984 and this is the on I take to the long distance shows. Or up the block.
In my opinion (and I’m barely scratching the surface of transmission knowledge) I think the 200R4 builders mentioned here are overkill for your power output. I’m planning 350 to 400 hp and most of these guys build a Stage I that will take 450. These include the hardened stator, better band, and better/more clutches. I’ve also found one on JEGS that is very reasonably priced (not available till Feb 18) that might be a good replacement for you. https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/60306/10002/-1
A stock 2004R will handle anything a 260 can put out. A stock trans with the Grand National servo with handle anything a mild 350 can put out. The 2004R really isn’t as bad as people think.
Man a 260/2004R and 3.08 gear is loafing along. I would not worry about a 260 killing anything, including a bone stock 2004R. If you push more than 400 ft/lbs, the forward drum and shaft are on borrowed time.
If you live anywhere near Weatherford TX, go to Phoenix transmission. On the Palo Pinto highway, just west of the split. They can fix you up with all you need to make the 200-4R work properly. They will install it if you want.
Awesome, you will enjoy it a lot. Better first gear than even a TH350, massively better than your Jetaway and the .67 OD is awesome especially with the lock up converter. What rear gears is in your car? Anything less than 3.08 is definitely too talll. Good luck and enjoy!
Ok, searching for ideas again. I’m going to be doing the trans swap by myself so I need to use a trans jack which means I need to get my car about 3 feet in the air to get the old trans out and the new trans in while on the trans jack. I do not have a lift and my jack stands only get me to about 2 feet. What else can I use that is safe?
Taller jack stands and either a higher lifting floor jack or bottle jack. Either that or lower the old trans down. Then slide off the jack and put the new 2004R on the transmission jack under vehicle. I have done more times than I care to think of. Good luck.
I have a 1/4 inch piece of steel plate cut in the basic shape of the TH400 pan. I welded angle iron to the plate to match the corners of the pan so it can’t slide off. In the center of the plate I welded a steel rod the same diameter of the jack saddle. Remove the jack lift pad, install the homemade transmission plate to the jack, set the transmission in the locating tabs. Here is my car sitting on several pieces of 2x12 wood. I used these homemade stands to set the pinion angle. The car needs to be sitting on the tires, just as it would be on the ground. I since added 2 more 2x12s to the stack, that allow just enough clearance to the transmission to slide under the car.
The treated wood was expensive (and with lumber prices the way the are it’s really expensive now) but I can use the stands for other purposes. I had my car trailer sitting on them when I rewired the lights last fall. The wood doesn’t move around like car stands do. I made wheel chocks so the car can’t roll off even with the driveshaft removed. It was expensive, but they are useful.
I have a 1/4 inch piece of steel plate cut in the basic shape of the TH400 pan. I welded angle iron to the plate to match the corners of the pan so it can’t slide off. In the center of the plate I welded a steel rod the same diameter of the jack saddle. Remove the jack lift pad, install the homemade transmission plate to the jack, set the transmission in the locating tabs.
I've done ATs with the half-fast adapters on a floor jack. I've also used a real trans jack that has pitch and roll adjustment capability. There is no comparison between the two. Rent or buy a real trans jack and don't look back. I got this one from Harbor Freight over a decade ago for $149. Best money I ever spent. And yeah, it appears to be over twice as much today. I got it on sale with a coupon.
I agree, those work great if the car is up high enough. The problem is the lifting saddle is so far off the ground, the car needs to be pretty high up for the transmission and jack to fit under it. Those work great for multiple transmission designs. Obviously my homemade plate will only work on TH400 (and in its original design, only with a deep pan.) I neglected to consider the possibility of using it with a stock shallow pan, the angle iron was too long. That was nothing for the whiz wheel of death to correct!!
I agree, those work great if the car is up high enough. The problem is the lifting saddle is so far off the ground, the car needs to be pretty high up for the transmission and jack to fit under it.
Actually, my trans jack goes lower than my floor jack.
Yeah, I took off the four corner brackets and just sit the pan on the flat plate. Makes it easier to slide it the last fraction of an inch to engage the dowel pins anyway.
I thought having a 4-post lift would make this job easier, and in some ways it did, but I still needed an extra set of hands to heave the trans + jack up high enough to get in the car (the first stop on my lift is MORE than high enough to get the trans under the car, TOO high in fact).
Wow, you mean I'm not the only one crazy enough to do that?
Good to hear you guys much more knowledgeable than myself also have done it this way, it bloody well sucks. Good thing the 2004R is nearly as light as they come. I have also done them on a 4 post lift with a telescopic trans jack. Once you get the trans off and then on the jack, it is super easy. I have also used the floor adapter, it sits really high, not ideal for sure. I think a proper floor trans jack is the way to go for my next trans swap, there is always another dealing with GM's wonderful transmission's.
Good to hear you guys much more knowledgeable than myself also have done it this way, it bloody well sucks. Good thing the 2004R is nearly as light as they come.
The trick, by the way, is to put the converter in the trans after you get it up on the jack. The 200-4R lockup converter weighs about 10 lb more than a TH400 converter.
The trick, by the way, is to put the converter in the trans after you get it up on the jack. The 200-4R lockup converter weighs about 10 lb more than a TH400 converter.
I agree, it makes a big difference and one less thing to worry about falling out and having to secure.
November 27th, 2020, 09:12 AM
