olds 307 and 403

I believe you need a ballast resistor or a 1500 ohm coil for that distributor. Another member heated and reworked the outlet on the power steering pump. It is something all the earlier power steering car SBO owners have to deal with Edelbrock/Procomp aluminum heads. I hope to part of that group soon.

slade69

Thanks for introducing this "rotor phasing" to me! This is something I have not payed any attention before. Will check "phasing" on mine. There might be couple of ponies left on the table if it's off.

cdrod

I decided to do a mild gasket match on the intake manifold while I was waiting for the distributor gear to arrive. I didn't completely match the intake to the gasket as the ports in the heads are not as tall as the gasket set. I'm not sure how much this will help in the HP/TQ dept. but it didn't seem like it could hurt things. I also cut a notch in the plenum divider, about 5/8" deep. It looks a bit smaller than what I've seen on the Air Gap manifolds, but I'll be running EFI with a square bore throttle body, so I used the throttle body gasket to find the center of the square bore before I cut the notch.




I had a couple of runaways when I was grinding the intake ports and the burr left some scratches on the gasket surface. Most of them are very light, but a couple of them are deep enough to "catch" your finger nail in the groove. Should I be concerned about these scratches? I'm using the SCE gaskets that have the neoprene rubber seal around the ports. Will this gasket conform into the scratches enough to prevent an air leak? I would like a little advice on this issue.
Here's some porting pics:














Since the aluminum heads can't run with a valley pan intake gasket, I decided to have the bottom of the manifold coated with a thermal barrier from PolyDyne. They are local to me. I had them coat my rod & main bearings with a dry film lubricant before machining the rotating assembly. The thermal coating should insulate the intake charge from the hot oil in the lifter valley.

cdrod

I did some research on power steering pump reservoirs and discovered that Tuff Stuff makes a replacement reservoir that solves the cylinder head interference problem when running aluminum heads (i.e. Edelbrock, ProComp).

Here is a pic of my problem, the return line on the Olds pump reservoir hits the head.



The Tuff Stuff reseroir, PN6501 has the return line off to the side and it loops forward clearing the head.





Here is a pic of them side by side. The Olds is on the left, Tuff Stuff on the right.

olds 307 and 403

Sweet, good to know.

cdrod

I finally started my stroker engine the first time today and could really use some help and advice. The engine has good oil pressure (50+ psi) but it doesn't want to idle smoothly the idle speed surges until it stalls. There is also a very loud squealing noise. Could it be the air flow through the throttle body? It has a FiTech EFI system. I'm a bit afraid to give it any throttle until I've identified the squealing noise. This is my first engine build and a considerable investment, really don't want to screw this up - lol. I've attached a short video below. Can anyone help me out?

Rodney

Mr Nick

My Holley Sniper made a whistling/squeal sound (just like a slipping belt), which is solved with a 4 hole spacer. It's a common issue with the Snipers. If you have one laying around give it a shot.

However... you noise sounds more like dry metal rubbing to me. Sounds can be tough to diagnose with speakers.

cdrod

I got the engine to start!!! Kudos to you guys who build engines often or this is your day job; the first-time start up is a real butt pucker but the adrenaline rush once it's running is huge. The squealing sound I mentioned in my previous post was restricted airflow through the throttle body; the throttle blades were completely closed. I adjusted the set screw to open the throttle blades and it starts right up. I'm still having a difficult time getting it to idle without dying. One of the set-up goals is to get the idle air control (IAC) to be in the 3-10 range. Once the engine is started, the computer will make adjustments but once the IAC falls below 10 the engine starts to stumble and will eventually stall.

Here's a few more details:
Timing w/o vac advance = 16˚ BTC, (set with vac gauge)
Vacuum = 21" (seems too high, surges up & down a few inches)
Idle RPM = 1000 rpm
Temp = 240 degrees w/o cap (seems high)
IAC = 0-5
Any suggestions what to do next?

HWYSTR455

If you adjust the throttle blade screw, you have to do a TPS sync so the TPS range is reregistered in the ECU.

Holley now owns FI Tech, you can call support, they are pretty good.

.

Dynoking

Opening the throttle plates by adjusting the set screw will rise the idle speed. (As you noted 1000 RPM). If the programed idle speed parameter is (for instance) 650 RPM the EFI ECU will attempt to lower the idle RPM by closing the IAC. This is why your IAC counts are very low. The set screw is not used to set idle speed. The throttle plate opening must result in a base idle (typically 450 RPM) that is lower than curb idle speed (typically 650 RPM) in order for the ECU to control idle speed.
My explanation and specs. are based upon my years of repairing GM TBI systems. I have seen this issue time after time. The engine will not idle, a misguided "tech" attempts to correct the stall at idle by removing a seal and turns up the throttle stop screw. The stop screw is NOT used to set curb idle. The throttle set screw should never be touched. Now (noted by HWYSTR) the TPS is reading too high further compounding the by confusing the ECU that throttle plates are open. If the engine will not idle the root cause must be repaired.
Is the stall at idle simply caused by a ECU that has not completed its learning process? Was the correct basic information programed into the ECU before the first start up attempts. Have you tried driving the car so the ECU can complete its learning process. These self learning EFI systems typically require the end user to enter basic engine/vehicle information into the ECU then drive the vehicle. You may have to complete several start/drive cycles in order for the ECU to complete its self learn process. I suggest the throttle stop screw be adjusted to its factory setting and the recheck the initial programing and complete the initial drive cycles.

cutlassefi

It’s very simple. If the target idle speed is 800 and you have high IAC counts then adjust the idle set screw up until the IAC counts come down to the desired level.
If the counts are too low and the idle is high then the reverse is true.
What you’re all forgetting is there are other aspects to the idle scenario. Your “throttle stop” will determine how quickly your IAC comes back to idle position once you let off the gas. Plus there are other screens that determine start up idle position etc.
And remember it won’t learn anything until it reaches an operating temp of 160*.
These “self learning” systems really aren’t, at least not totally. There is still lots of stuff you have to set yourself in order for it to run the way it was designed.

oddball

If oil pressure is good, there aren't leaks, and it looks like water is moving, then I'd hold the throttle up over 1k rpm until it warms up, then let it idle down. I assume you have a roller cam so no need to do the cam break in, but following the same basic idea is still good - get revs up until its warm. That gets the oil moving and things settling in.

Idle can be tough on a new build, and getting cold start idle is especially tough. So skip right past that for now, get everything happy with the engine warm, then go back and futz with the cold-start/warmup stuff.

It'll be running open loop while cold, so the fueling can be completely and totally wrong. I've washed down cylinders several times (granted, with carbs...) due to various mistakes. Really don't want to do that.

Seriously, skip right past idle for now.

cdrod

Thanks for all the useful replies. I followed the FiTech set-up instructions before starting and entered all the base parameters. FiTech's documentation is pretty poor. I had to watch a few YouTube videos before i found someone that clearly explained the IAC adjustment. Somehow I missed the initial IAC set-up when I read the FiTech docs so when I started the engine, the butterflies were completely closed - the reason for the horrible squealing sound in my first video. One other thing was causing me problems, I wasn't giving the computer enough time to "learn" the IAC; I expected my adjustment to have an immediate effect so I was making large adjustments to the throttle screw before the system could "learn" the new IAC numbers.

I did finally get a decent idle, although it seems a bit rough, but this is my first performance build so I don't have much experience with larger cams. I also changed one of the initial set-up parameters: the FiTech programming asks you to select a number from 1-4 to optimize the fuel map for cam profile. There was absolutely no guidance in the FiTech docs as to how to set this. So I initially set this parameter to "2" as my cam is larger than stock with a duration of .223/.229 @ .050 but I was getting pretty high vacuum readings (over 20"). So I changed this parameter to "1" which seemed to help the idle but the milder fuel map could be a limiting factor once I get the on the road.

CutlassEFI:
Thanks for your IAC explanation. Your post reassured me that the info I culled from all the YouTube amateurs was accurate. I have a couple more "first start" questions unrelated to the IAC discussion. I was surprised to discover that the engine oil was about a quart low after running it for only a few minutes. I soaked the lifters (roller) overnight when I assembled the engine and primed the oil system through the distributor hole so I don't know where the oil went. I don't think I've run the engine long enough for the rings to be fully seated. Did the oil get passed the rings and burn up in combustion? I didn't see any smoke (other than the dust burning off the headers from sitting for so long). The oil pressure never dropped below 40psi even after it warmed up. Is this a normal? Should I be concerned or look for a problem?

Also, according to the FiTech controller, the engine temp got up to 240 degrees while I was messing with the IAC settings. I left the radiator cap off to allow any air bubbles to work their way out of the cooling passages so the system wasn't pressurized. I'm using a 50/50 pre-mix "Asian Red" anti-freeze and the printing on the jug says it is good to 265 degrees with a 16 lb cap. I have dual 13" Spal electric fans with PWM fan controller and they came on right after the thermostat opened. Any advice or reassurance would be nice. Thanks!

Rodney

cutlassefi

You’ll just have to play with the IAC settings. Remember timing will affect your idle vacuum as well.
As far as your consumption goes, if your plugs aren't oily then it may be just took that much to fill everything up.
And by the way the rings won’t fully seat until you put a load on the engine.
And you made a very common mistake, waiting too long for the fans to come on. First fan should come on about 150°, second fan right BEFORE the thermostat opens. Otherwise you're just chasing your tail.