Smitty275

Would need either a head or the engineering drawings to do it. Preferably the engineering drawings.

captjim

What is a W-43?? Never heard that term used before.

Seff

W-43 was an experimental (claimed to be production) 32 valve 455. Worked with the same 16 pushrods and a domed piston, as well as a pent roof design combustion chamber.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990418053673

captjim

Great link, thanks!! A 24 valve pushrod engine, very cool.

There was an interesting bit of info that relates to this post,
"It is a little known fact that the reason why the stock Olds V8 engine survived so long in the GM lineup is because the combustion chamber was the only one that could meet emissions requirements without port fuel injection - hence all those carbureted 307s hanging on for as long as they did."

RIF RAF

A copy of the original W43 head is not going to happen or work for that matter. Unless you also have the block that they used. It was different being that the cam was raised higher and there were notches to allow more angle in the pushrods to pull of having them in between the rockers like a Hemi. If you study the pictures from the magazine articles and the 1/2 engine that was for sale a while back its not a std camshaft pattern either. Prodution Olds is IEIEEIEI the w-43 appears to be IEIEIEIE.

To build one would be a completely new design to make it work with our blocks.

Seff

Damn. A man can dream though, right?

olds 307 and 403

There were casting boxes for the W43 heads that disappeared without a word on Ebay. It was very strange. The Olds V8 was designed to be fuel efficient and produce low end torque first and foremost, it did that very well. It is nice to have 3 readily available heads for the Olds V8.

cutlassefi

You'd obviously need the original engineering, then see if its feasible to do it with the current blocks.
Of course once you cast the head then the intake could be done as well. I'm sure with both, there would or could be numerous revisions based on today's tech.
Then lastly new cam cores would need to be made as the valve arrangement is different from the std style core. Or maybe they could just change the head/intake but that would have be evaluated at that point. But with all that, besides a DX block, do we have another block able to hold up to the power those heads would be capable of? Probably not.

It seems the info posted on this topic is fairly consistent. But let me make a couple of points if I could please.
Yes we can all do a home port job, but suppose you screw it up? Hmmmmm, now you scrap iron.
And no ones ported iron heads flow much better, if at all, than a set of stock Edelbrocks with a good valve job.(see kitfoxdaves post). Never mind the weight savings and what we think is a better combustion chamber.
Thanks.

Jmo.

cutlassefi

Curious, how do you know it didn't make more torque below 3000? You said you didn't pull it any lower so how do you really know?
For all- a little dyno info;
You always throw out the first and last numbers, always. They're seldom if ever correct. Cody you should know that.

And I'm having a hard time believing this W30 intake combo made 60hp less than your previously posted combo with the Toro/motor home intake. Seems the build specs posted were extremely similar other than that. I guess we all better start grabbing up those Toro intakes huh. I never knew.
Thanks for the tip.

PS, yes I'm being sarcastic, i think your motorhome build numbers are not anywhere near correct. Per your words "I didn't do the test", then don't post it if you really don't know. Have some respect and consideration for those on here that are just looking for some reliable no nonsense info. Thank you.

Bernhard

I have a question for the pro head porters CJ Smith and Smitty.
Do you ever remove the valve guide boss completely and use solid bronze wall guide for valve support?
What do you think this mod is worth?




CJ thanks for supporting US companies.

The W34 engine is very cool and would have been a game changer but Chevy did not want the competition.


Could you put a value to each mod performed on a set of iron heads as in potential.

cutlassefi

How do you know this to be the truth?

coppercutlass

Watch out mark is out to question everything lol.

holiday88

Speculation: the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"

RE W43: "But it was not to be. After many miles of dyno and street driven testing, Olds pulled the plug on the motor. Many later blamed the death of John Beltz, Oldsmobile's then pro-racing General Manager, but what killed the engine were two things, the recognition of the upcoming EPA rules that this gas guzzler couldn't meet; and the consternation (read screaming) from Chevrolet."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Beltz
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/...feature12.html

Bernhard

There was a article that I read not too long ago that was posted by Olds factory personal stating that Chevy put pressure on to have the program halted. There used to be a healthy competition between the factory programs.
I will look for the link.

jfb

I stated in a previous thread that I have a 1.5 garage and my olds is in there but it has been freezing this questions the edelbrocks true quality can the weather make them crack this week? true answers only please this could be serious! I have almost 80 percent coolant flowing in there now 20 water.

coppercutlass

I have probably a 50 / 50 mix in my daily driver with aluminum heads and block and it stayed out side in the -40 weather we had. I don't see how the aluminum will be compromised by temps that low unless the coolant freezes expands and cracks the heads. Tommorow will be 40 fire it up and find out.

captjim

I can barely understand this post. Cold will not harm them, freezing water can, as it can to iron heads.

olds 307 and 403

An 80/20 mix will start gelling if anything. Saw what water in the winter did to the our old 56 Fargo with super tough flat 6. Four cracks in the iron block.

cutlassefi

Not true. If you have proof, I'm all ears. If you're spewing heresay or total crap then I'll ask for substantiation.
I think everybody deserves that courtesy.

RIF RAF

NO.
Reason being with the stock "fin/divider" what ever you want to call it on the leading edge of the guide helps split the air smoothly around the guide. Having just the guide hanging out there is a poor aerodynamic shape and causes turbulence in the port. Taking out that material may be enough to increase flow even though it becomes turbulent but air is one thing. Air with Fuel in it is another, smooth fast airflow is better for the air/fuel mix, sudden changes is direction (turbulence) can drop the fuel out of the air.

The only heads out there with guides just hanging in the ports are mostly Imports and motorcycles both of which usually have small short ports where the guide is about 3/8" into the port max vs over 1/2". With their steeper valve angles the guide hanging out has less effect too.

Are there cases where doing that type of mod would be beneficial...its possible but the only time I might try it is with big boost when Volume is needed. In most cases I would think that you'd have aluminum heads at this point.

Mark,
I didn't do the coatings test - Joe did. On the Twister engine which was 14+ compression, Alcohol, Max effort edelbrocks, Batten intake, Huge Cam, Lightened Crank, etc.
I didn't do the work on that Motorhome engine either. That was the old crew here. I DID assemble and dyno that engine though.

And how do I give out first and last dyno numbers on a customers engine? Its not a test mule and they're not going to pay a second dyno fee just to know that...yup it was a weak suck.

Now we can go back and forth only to arrive at the same conclusion. It seems that you think I shouldn't share any dyno numbers unless its be done with R&D scrutiny. Things don't work that way in real life, between busting my butt trying to keep this place in business and get new products on the market for our Olds platform I just don't have the time. This not a hobby for me, Its my career.

507OLDS

I've seen some ported iron Olds heads,where the removed the material around the guide AND the part if the guide that stuck out. All that remained was valve stem. No idea how those flowed or performed. They were a pair of F-heads that passed through here many years ago.

cutlassefi

I hope so.

The new Procomps have a nicer taper cast into the runner at the guide than the Edelbrocks. But the Edelbrocks flowed better out of the box. However if you look at the port entry of the Procomp vs the Edelbrock I believe it's easy to see why.

67 Cutlass Freak

If we all continue supporting foreign countries ours is headed into the toilet. I do think Edelbrock should lower their prices to be more competative, or at least sell Olds heads for the same coin as Chevy, or Ford heads. I realize we can not easaly compete with their ultra cheap labor force in China, but maybe the government should raise the impot tax. That might level out the playing field. Screw the free trade act. No other countries are playing fair.

Cody you were talking about how the air flow on a head with just the guide hanging out would show more flow on a bench, but in reality with fuel added to the picture, it creates more turbulance. What ever happened to Joe's wet flow bench? Did the idea never catch on? Was it because the industry had too many dry benches in the field, and now we would have to create a different standard or baseline?

Bernhard

CJ thanks for the reply, and good luck in growing the business.

Milan..

Here is a engine I built with very lightly ported heads , more polishing and some conturing on the intake side , egr bumps removed , no heat riser fill or divider work. Cast iron intake with the divider modified , did spend money on a hyd. roller , which I feel is where the power came from.

Bernhard

If we all continue supporting foreign countries ours is headed into the toilet. I do think Edelbrock should lower their prices to be more competative, or at least sell Olds heads for the same coin as Chevy or Ford heads. I realize we can not easaly compete with their ultra cheap labor force in China but maybe the government should raise the impot tax. That might level out the playing field. Srew the free trade act. No other countries are playing fair.Quote





I'm for fare trade what we have today is dumping of cheep products from China into the North American market . I'm Canadian so I buy products made in Canada first then the US. I would expect the US citizen to buy US products first as well. I don't mind paying more for Can and US products because I know that the people making the products are getting a working wage and that it is good for the countries.
When people have jobs to go to it lifts up the community and the country.

Milan..

Also with less labor intensive work on the heads and more emphasis on a modern valve train , less worry about water leaks and structural integrity of the heads ( heat riser fill coming loose or cracking from welds)

Bernhard

Milan great numbers.
Would you mind sharing more of this build.
Comp?
cam specs?
pistons?
The intake mod is that the one were the divider is cut down?
Bore and stroke?

Milan..

If you want 450 hp stockish iron heads will work , if you want 500 hp , its aluminum. Your budget will tell you what you can have .... Thanks Milan

Milan..

234 - 246 @ .050 Lsa 112 in A 110 lift is .574 int .595 exh. This is the same came I used to make 525hp with un-ported E-brocks and big valves.

jfb

jfb

I agree us and Canadian products are the best in quality,I will give a example Chinese made gas de-icer froze my cars gas line this last week with almost a full tank of gas and I had no choice on the product at that moment. I bought a Canadian made de-icer and a us made gas de-icer and it unfroze even at 10 degrees. Chinese products have very sloppy tolerances period. I did not want jack your quote I just totally agree buddy.

J-(Chicago)

There you have it.......and there you have it.

450 on irons. and 525 on aluminums. This was a good combo to build because it is on the threshold of the limitations.

Now.....how many people really need 500 hp in their old project car? If you're one of them who does, get the aluminum. If not, you're just fine with your old factory junk and a little bit of grinding.

J-(Chicago)

Milan has a rock solid recipe for 450hp with your old "junk" irons right there.
All you need to do is whip out the credit card, choose your hp goal and heads, and start double clicking the mouse.

jfb

hey j I agree but why if you can obviously not have more power then needed on hand? I have not really other then a engine stabilizer have scene more maitenance on a street driven more powerfully built engine. I am into max power cars that can be driven on the street the way Detroit meant it to be,by the way I am not old enough to be there just brought up in speed shop environments and a healthy respect for our past. I did not mean to jack your quote but we are of the same idea buddy.

J-(Chicago)

Valid point taken. I'd get the aluminums if my goal was 500+hp.

However, you must also know your audience. I'd guess 70% of the guys crazy enough to **** money away on their love for an old rusty Oldsmobile are living off of their pension and social security checks, and have 3 or 4 kids.
The difference between $700 and 2k can be significant.

If you were born in 1945 and had a brand new 442 back in the day when you and your wife were young , you would be 69 years old.

RandyS

You almost pegged me to a 'T'. Born in '47, had a 66 L69 back in the day. Best car ever (no wife, no kids). Now restoring an L69 on a Pension and SS, and the $$ do make a difference....(using iron heads)...... but I am managing to '**** away' plenty. I'll post some pics when it's done.

J-(Chicago)

I know all about it, my ol' man was born in 46', and had 4 boys.

captjim

If wish you guys would stop saying $2,000 when it isn't. And, look at what you get for your $700 vs the Pro Comps. It really doesn't take long to have a grand in the iron heads.

I do agree that the fuel pump deal and milling are issues on the SBO, but for even a mild performance build on a BBO, the benefits of the Pro Comps so outweigh the extra cost that it is a no-brainer. IMHO.

Bernhard

Milan is this a custom cam that you had ground?

Does this cam have the Mopar profile or Olds?
Standard Olds hyd roller lifter?

What are your thoughts of this cam in a smaller cu engine say 427cu?

Milan
Thanks for sharing you expertise