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My 488 has been dubbed "Project Cabrone" for all the hassles it has put me through. I have it back apart now after 500 miles, as I simmered it in nicely, then decided to drop the hammer at the 500 mark and GOOD LORD it shocked the hell out of me. Completely blew though 1st gear on 10" BFG T/A radials, blasted into second, finally did a dead hook on perfect cement at the top end of second, then proceeded to completely obliterate the $$$ Art Carr 200R4 so violently that I thought I blew the engine. I immediately killed the engine, coasted to a stop, then regained my composure enough to fire the engine back up (whole car still filled with tire smoke). Very surprisingly, it fired right up, sounded normal, but had absolutely no response out of any gear selection what so ever - just dead, no matter what position the gear shift was in - no reverse, no noise, acted as if the shift cable wasn't even connected. Trans fluid looked perfect - no odor, no metal, even right on the mark for run time fluid level. What I did notice was that the oil pressure was down about 25 pounds from usual, though no obvious knocks, ticks, or evil noises. I did not have a rev limiter at this time, and believe I hit 7500 RPM +/- when the trans let go....
Flash forward, after blowing the stroker back apart, I found that I had hammered the freshly align honed main caps right out of round - I am surprised that this is all that I have found, as everything else is checking out properly otherwise. Soooo.... now it is in the long drawn out process of getting upgraded to a Scat full counterweighted internal balance CNC billet crank, Dick Miller billet main caps, special coated bearings, along with a their new full pan rail 5 cap girdle package, full main stud package, and their stainless steel DMR windage tray. While it is down, I am also working with Titan Speed to revive the wet sump gerotor oil pump designs for all Olds applications (as they lost almost everything to the California wildfires that destroyed their shop). So far, things are looking promising on a some cool new redesign ideas I am coming up with to allow the Titan pumps to run with common popular oil pans, testing a variety of different versions and ideas right now. This is all going to take time - lots of time to nail it all down just right, hopefully ready for next year.
Meanwhile, I'm building two back up engines to roll with while I take my time to get "Project Cabrone" bull whipped back into shape. Both are 455's, one being a super low mileage virgin '72 Toronado that is so untouched that I almost feel as though I am violating it while I am tearing it down. The other is a marine 455 that the machine shop is currently working with. I am not going to be doing all of the over the top killer work on these that the 488 stroker has. The Toro engine is getting a set of 68cc ProComp / Speedmaster heads to bring the compression up, FelPro 1155 marine head gaskets, a decent valve train, my special billet camshaft thrust plate, an 8 quart pan, essentially leaving the block and rotating mass intact. This is going to be what I am referring to as "the mule" base engine just to roll around with, targeting about 375 horse +/- . The second engine is getting a set of ICON IC886 pistons, Moly rings, some nice H beam rods, special coated bearings, the standard set of ProComp / Speedmaster heads, Cometic MLS head gaskets, 8 quart pan, hotter roller valve train also with another one my billet camshaft thrust plates, and so on. What I am hung up on at the moment is that I can't justify putting a CNC machined full billet crank in this one. I thought I'd dig around and score a stock 455 forged crank somewhere, but see that's not going to happen (as it looks like it would end up being more cost effective to have a custom billet crank made than to score a factory forged 455 crank).
So here's the question I want your help with please:
Do I just grab an Eagle Specialty Products 104554260 "cast steel" drop in crank?
My knee jerk response is to get the Eagle crank, but the 5340 nodular iron Mondello crank is oddly nagging at me.
Please advise, as the machine shop is on hold waiting for me to make a move on this, and i am finding myself torn between the two.
This second middle of the road build will be the spicier back up, targetting 475 +/- horse.
Let me know your thoughts on the crank for the spicier back up Marine 455 engine. Its getting the lighter pistons and H beam rods, full balance job, but I'm not going to hit it with any nitrous, and will be keeping it under 6000 RPM.
Here’s my take.
For most builds, a well machined factory crank can see its way up to the limits of the engine block.
650hp is all you’re going to get before the block takes a dump- unless you’ve got a crazy girdle and using block fill.
Is that where your headed?
Best of luck in your oil pump project. Please keep us posted on that.
I’m not sure how much hp your 488 was making but had you internally balanced it along with using an ATI or similar balancer, as it is on any decent hp big block build, you may not have had any issues..
I purchased a Scat stock stroke billet crank for my upcoming Dyno mule. But I did it knowing they’re not going to be available anymore at the current price, and I’m sure someday I’ll end up selling the mule. With that said, the stock N cranks are fine to 650 or so if done right. If you go with the Eagle, check all journals for round and taper. Often times they do need to be cut .010/.010 to make them right. Otherwise I’ve had no issues with them.
Best of luck.
My 488 has been dubbed "Project Cabrone" for all the hassles it has put me through. I have it back apart now after 500 miles, as I simmered it in nicely, then decided to drop the hammer at the 500 mark and GOOD LORD it shocked the hell out of me. Completely blew though 1st gear on 10" BFG T/A radials, blasted into second, finally did a dead hook on perfect cement at the top end of second, then proceeded to completely obliterate the $$$ Art Carr 200R4 so violently that I thought I blew the engine. I immediately killed the engine, coasted to a stop, then regained my composure enough to fire the engine back up (whole car still filled with tire smoke). Very surprisingly, it fired right up, sounded normal, but had absolutely no response out of any gear selection what so ever - just dead, no matter what position the gear shift was in - no reverse, no noise, acted as if the shift cable wasn't even connected. Trans fluid looked perfect - no odor, no metal, even right on the mark for run time fluid level. What I did notice was that the oil pressure was down about 25 pounds from usual, though no obvious knocks, ticks, or evil noises. I did not have a rev limiter at this time, and believe I hit 7500 RPM +/- when the trans let go....
Flash forward, after blowing the stroker back apart, I found that I had hammered the freshly align honed main caps right out of round - I am surprised that this is all that I have found, as everything else is checking out properly otherwise. Soooo.... now it is in the long drawn out process of getting upgraded to a Scat full counterweighted internal balance CNC billet crank, Dick Miller billet main caps, special coated bearings, along with a their new full pan rail 5 cap girdle package, full main stud package, and their stainless steel DMR windage tray. While it is down, I am also working with Titan Speed to revive the wet sump gerotor oil pump designs for all Olds applications (as they lost almost everything to the California wildfires that destroyed their shop). So far, things are looking promising on a some cool new redesign ideas I am coming up with to allow the Titan pumps to run with common popular oil pans, testing a variety of different versions and ideas right now. This is all going to take time - lots of time to nail it all down just right, hopefully ready for next year.
Meanwhile, I'm building two back up engines to roll with while I take my time to get "Project Cabrone" bull whipped back into shape. Both are 455's, one being a super low mileage virgin '72 Toronado that is so untouched that I almost feel as though I am violating it while I am tearing it down. The other is a marine 455 that the machine shop is currently working with. I am not going to be doing all of the over the top killer work on these that the 488 stroker has. The Toro engine is getting a set of 68cc ProComp / Speedmaster heads to bring the compression up, FelPro 1155 marine head gaskets, a decent valve train, my special billet camshaft thrust plate, an 8 quart pan, essentially leaving the block and rotating mass intact. This is going to be what I am referring to as "the mule" base engine just to roll around with, targeting about 375 horse +/- . The second engine is getting a set of ICON IC886 pistons, Moly rings, some nice H beam rods, special coated bearings, the standard set of ProComp / Speedmaster heads, Cometic MLS head gaskets, 8 quart pan, hotter roller valve train also with another one my billet camshaft thrust plates, and so on. What I am hung up on at the moment is that I can't justify putting a CNC machined full billet crank in this one. I thought I'd dig around and score a stock 455 forged crank somewhere, but see that's not going to happen (as it looks like it would end up being more cost effective to have a custom billet crank made than to score a factory forged 455 crank).
So here's the question I want your help with please:
Do I just grab an Eagle Specialty Products 104554260 "cast steel" drop in crank?
My knee jerk response is to get the Eagle crank, but the 5340 nodular iron Mondello crank is oddly nagging at me.
Please advise, as the machine shop is on hold waiting for me to make a move on this, and i am finding myself torn between the two.
This second middle of the road build will be the spicier back up, targetting 475 +/- horse.
Let me know your thoughts on the crank for the spicier back up Marine 455 engine. Its getting the lighter pistons and H beam rods, full balance job, but I'm not going to hit it with any nitrous, and will be keeping it under 6000 RPM.
Your thoughts and input are highly welcomed!
Thank you kindly!
Paul
Ask Mondello what a 5340 casting is…. then post the material specs here
we need a laugh.
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; March 3rd, 2022 at 02:07 PM.
Plus, it's also cryogenically frozen to increase its strength.
Look, I'm not up for a pissing match here, I have vastly better things to do... Whatever your point is, I clearly see that you are drinking the "Hatorade" for Mondello.
Clark455 let me give you a free lesson. Every item that Lynn sells as "Mondello" can be bought through other sources minus the purple anodizing and Mondello logo for about 1/2 the price. And don't fall for that freezing it bullshyt.
Plus, it's also cryogenically frozen to increase its strength.
Look, I'm not up for a pissing match here, I have vastly better things to do... Whatever your point is, I clearly see that you are drinking the "Hatorade" for Mondello.
Paul
oh ya, it’s cryo’d
its gotta be true then. It’s an eagle cast steel crank in a purple Mondello package.
Im sure it’s the right crank for you. It’s sooo special , one of a kind….for your three engines posted here.
Clark455 let me give you a free lesson. Every item that Lynn sells as "Mondello" can be bought through other sources minus the purple anodizing and Mondello logo for about 1/2 the price. And don't fall for that freezing it bullshyt.
SAE AMS Standard List SAE AMS 5340
Steel, Corrosion-Resistant, Investment Castings, 14Cr - 4.25Ni - 2.25Mo - 0.25Cb - 3.25Cu, Homogenization and Solution Heat Treated
Allow me to interject here. What I see is 14% Chrome, 4 1/4% Nickel, 2 1/4% Molybdinum, 1/4% Cobalt (I think), 3 1/4% Copper. I don't see carbon content except in the AMS number (5340) 4%. Due to the higher Chrome and nickel content, its gonna be a little tougher to machine.
On the subject of "cryogenic tempering". This process converts additional Austenite to Martensite grain structure and increases strength......and something in my memory says it also increases resistance to fatigue failure.
Clark455 let me give you a free lesson. Every item that Lynn sells as "Mondello" can be bought through other sources minus the purple anodizing and Mondello logo for about 1/2 the price. And don't fall for that freezing it bullshyt.
Agreed. Whatever he's trying to sell you is an off the shelf item, available anywhere, for far less money.
They're the only ones still pushing cryo. If it really worked, everyone would be doing it.
Last edited by fleming442; March 4th, 2022 at 02:26 AM.
BUT, I'm concerned with how much corrosion I'm seeing on the journals - could be a gamble on this one. I am also considering ponying up for Rocket Racing's new $$$ billet drop in:
You can also offset grind a more plentiful 425 crank to 4.24 on a Chevy rod journal.
The forged 455 cranks are pretty heavy, from what i hear, and $2-3k is ridiculous.
Agreed. Whatever he's trying to sell you is an off the shelf item, available anywhere, for far less money.
They're the only ones still pushing cryo. If it really worked, everyone would be doing it.
The Cryogenic tempering process has been around for many years. Its more beneficial for parts in high stress conditions. Its not a cheap process or a process that is needed in every engine build.
The cranks that are being Cryo'd because the "off shore" manufacturer has had them break. A couple people I talked to have their Oldsmobile cranks (un-forged) Cryo'd when they are offset ground (to 4 1/2" stroke).
Originally Posted by fleming442
You can also offset grind a more plentiful 425 crank to 4.24 on a Chevy rod journal.
The forged 455 cranks are pretty heavy, from what i hear, and $2-3k is ridiculous.
And if you offset grind a 425 crank to 4.240" stroke, you back to almost 455. People who are boring and stroking 455's want more cubic inches. More cubic inches means more torque and more horsepower.
You can offset grind a good std/std 425 crank to the 455 stock 4.250 stroke using a 2.200 BBC journal no problem. The factory forged 455 cranks aren't anything special. Rare, yes. Special, no. Good std/std ones go for $600-$750 and that's still too much. The guy asking $1500 for the one in the for sale section is on drugs. There's a reason it's been for sale for three years.
Last edited by chadman; March 4th, 2022 at 11:58 AM.
You can offset grind a good std/std 425 crank to the 455 stock 4.250 stroke using a 2.200 BBC journal no problem. The factory forged 455 cranks aren't anything special. Rare, yes. Special, no. Good std/std ones go for $600-$750 and that's still too much. The guy asking $1500 for the one in the for sale section is on drugs. There's a reason it's been for sale for three years.
February 26th, 2022, 03:21 AM
While my 488 is down for upgrades...
