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So when rebuilding a 455, it's really not worth the time and money to try and reuse factory rods. Trovato's book states that factory forged rods are good for throwing into the garbage as they are very unreliable above 450HP. The big end never remains true.
The Eagle rods are around $500 so it seems like a no brainer. They are lighter and much stronger than factory rods.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by pettrix
So when rebuilding a 455, it's really not worth the time and money to try and reuse factory rods. Trovato's book states that factory forged rods are good for throwing into the garbage as they are very unreliable above 450HP. The big end never remains true.
The Eagle rods are around $500 so it seems like a no brainer. They are lighter and much stronger than factory rods.
On my last 455 build I used Eagle rods, I had to equalized them, I resized them, I had to pin fit the small end, I had to modify the bearing tangs, I then had a decent set of rods to use.
Pulled the engine out and dropped the pan. This was at the bottom of the pan. Haven't pulled the heads off yet. It was running but was burning oil and blowing smoke.
Any guesses what that chunk of aluminum is? Piston?
On my last 455 build I used Eagle rods, I had to equalized them, I resized them, I had to pin fit the small end, I had to modify the bearing tangs, I then had a decent set of rods to use.
On my last 455 build I used Eagle rods, I had to equalized them, I resized them, I had to pin fit the small end, I had to modify the bearing tangs, I then had a decent set of rods to use.
As I said before, you should’ve sent them back if they were really that bad.
And as is typical with your political style, you don’t always tell the whole story. You should’ve noticed by now that virtually all aftermarket bushed rods will come thru on the tight side. That’s fully intentional in case you haven’t figured that out yet.
I also have to wonder if you used the right rod bearing. If you use the Clevite HN they always fit perfectly.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 26th, 2020 at 08:31 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by cutlassefi
As I said before, you should’ve sent them back if they were really that bad.
And as is typical with your political style, you don’t always tell the whole story. You should’ve noticed by now that virtually all aftermarket bushed rods will come thru on the tight side. That’s fully intentional in case you haven’t figured that out yet.
I also have to wonder if you used the right rod bearing. If you use the Clevite HN they always fit perfectly.
The big end of the rods were not tight or low on the spec, they were over the high side of the spec, which is sometimes the case with Scat or Eagle rods. Now its possible I have different measuring equipment (Sunnen) than you which could possibly give a different measurement than you could be getting. As far as the tangs go, I would never force a bearing into a tang, that was the reasoning behind remachining the tangs. And the question I have is: is it a good idea to run a Clevite HN bearing on a cast crank? At the same time I equalized and resized the rods I was able to oval hone the rods a big plus in my opinion. I don't send low end aftermarket parts back, I don't have the time, I have put together a operation that allows me to fix or modify parts to meet my expectations. The results speak for themselves.
Last edited by VORTECPRO; December 27th, 2020 at 08:14 AM.
I mentioned the small ends typically needs attention on all aftermarket rods. So the small end was over the high spec and you had to rebush them? “I had to pin fit the small end”. That’s what you said initially. So that wasn’t the case or was it? Your statement is confusing based on my initial point.
As far as HN bearings go for an Olds, when you use a CAST Eagle crank you HAVE to use then cuz of the radius. And using them on a regular N crank wouldn’t be any different. The rod is what flexes as much as anything. So, if you’re using a good solid rod and your clearances are correct for the application, then you should have 0 issues. I’m speaking from first hand experience because I’ve done dozens of Olds 455 builds. You’ve done two, but apparently you’re now an expert. I gotcha.
And I guess you can’t take 5 minutes to call Eagle, tell them you have a bad set, order another right away then return the bad ones when you have a few minutes? You know when you’re not on here spewing trash? Oh that’s right, you don’t make any money if you don’t have to “fix” something.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 27th, 2020 at 07:48 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by cutlassefi
So the small end was over the high spec and you had to rebush them? That’s not what you said initially.
As far as HN bearings go for an Olds, when you use a CAST Eagle crank you HAVE to use then cuz of the radius. And using them on a regular N crank wouldn’t be any different. The rod is what flexes as much as anything. So, if you’re using a good solid rod and your clearances are correct for the application, then you should have 0 issues. I’m speaking from first hand experience because I’ve done dozens of Olds 455 builds. You’ve done two, but apparently you’re now an expert. I gotcha.
And I guess you can’t take 5 minutes to call Eagle, tell them you have a bad set, order another right away then return the bad ones when you have a few minutes? You know when you’re not on here spewing trash? Oh that’s right, you don’t make any money if you don’t have to “fix” something.
Mark
Its good to see you back feeling good! You are right the small end is undersize, its the big end that I usually find out of spec (BIG).
As I sit here eating breakfast I've tried to count the 455 Oldsmobiles I've built from the ground up, and I come up with 26 builds. I will proudly state with (0) (ZERO) bearing failures.
"You know when you’re not on here spewing trash? Oh that’s right, you don’t make any money if you don’t have to “fix” something"
CutlassEFI.
LOL. Ok I'am going to take a stab at this, Think I know what your trying to say....................its like breaking cullasefi code LOL.
So what I think your saying/posting............When I find a part I'am not comfortable using in a build, I fix that part and charge the customer? I think thats what your saying/posting...... right, your dam right thats what I do, of course I would call the customer and ask them what they want me to do first.
I truly do appreciate your point of view on here and would never want you to change!
Last edited by VORTECPRO; December 27th, 2020 at 08:11 AM.
Its good to see you back feeling good! You are right the small end is undersize, its the big end that I usually find out of spec (BIG).
As I sit here eating breakfast I've tried to count the 455 Oldsmobiles I've built from the ground up, and I come up with 26 builds. I will proudly state with (0) (ZERO) bearing failures.
I truly do appreciate your point of view on here and would never want you to change!
I am thank you.
Then if the small end was small and the big end was big then say that, consistently. Your sentence/thought structure needs some help to say the least. Or you’re just practicing to become a politician.😀
For the record, some of your posts suggest unfamiliarity with certain scenarios. I’m just commenting on your own statements that’s all.
Last edited by cutlassefi; December 27th, 2020 at 02:31 PM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
[QUOTE=cutlassefi;1304108]Then if the small end was small and the big end was big then say that, consistently. Your sentence/thought structure needs some help to say the least. Or you’re just practicing to become a politician.😀
For the record, some of your posts suggest unfamiliarity with certain scenarios. I’m just commenting on your own statements that’s all.[/QUOTE
Reread post # 8 then reread post #15 and tell me they’re saying the exact same thing. They don’t. You omitted clarification regarding the small end.
You’re consistently inconsistent. But that’s fine. Now I know not to take your posts at face value, no problem, really.
Done with you here.
VORTECPRO
Could you explain the benefits of oval honing a aftermarket rod?
What was the added cost to blueprint the rods?
When building a big block Oldsmobile with a factory weight piston and rod what bearing clearance would you run?
Using a stock rod?
Using a aftermarket rod?
Thanks
Bernhard
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by Bernhard
VORTECPRO
Could you explain the benefits of oval honing a aftermarket rod?
What was the added cost to blueprint the rods?
When building a big block Oldsmobile with a factory weight piston and rod what bearing clearance would you run?
Using a stock rod?
Using a aftermarket rod?
Thanks
Bernhard
1. Could you explain the benefits of oval honing a aftermarket rod?
It gives you the ability to tighten the vertical clearance on a large rod journal engine.
2. What was the added cost to blueprint the rods?
I charge 250.00 on a aftermarket set of rods to oval hone, center to center, pin fit small end.
3. When building a big block Oldsmobile with a factory weight piston and rod what bearing clearance would you run?
I don't know I use light weight components and lighten them from there. Battenrunner had heavy aftermarket components and ran .0028 on the rods.
4. Using a stock rod?
I have used .0028 with production Olds rods. ZERO problems.
You have to understand my way of measuring might be different than someone else. I know with my Buick I fine tuned the bearing clearance over time.
1. Could you explain the benefits of oval honing a aftermarket rod?
It gives you the ability to tighten the vertical clearance on a large rod journal engine.
2. What was the added cost to blueprint the rods?
I charge 250.00 on a aftermarket set of rods to oval hone, center to center, pin fit small end.
3. When building a big block Oldsmobile with a factory weight piston and rod what bearing clearance would you run?
I don't know I use light weight components and lighten them from there. Battenrunner had heavy aftermarket components and ran .0028 on the rods.
4. Using a stock rod?
I have used .0028 with production Olds rods. ZERO problems.
You have to understand my way of measuring might be different than someone else. I know with my Buick I fine tuned the bearing clearance over time.
So when you get the Eagle rods, what bearing manufacturer should you use?
This is engine builder specific and it has to do with how hard the bearing surface is. A harder bearing can take more load but is harder on the crank surface.
A soft bearing is kinder to the crank surface. The majority of Olds crankshafts are cast and thus softer than a steel crank. You can have the cast crank nitrated to add surface hardness.
I wouldn't do that, you can't trust the ring lands or much any thing else on those pistons. If your going to build a engine do it right, get good parts find a quality machine shop in your area. Where are you in Utah?
December 25th, 2020, 04:43 PM
