pettrix

1972 W-25 OEM hood. Excellent condition, no bodywork needed but it developed cracks and chips over the years so it needs to be sanded down to base, resprayed the metallic blue paint and then cleared.

How much is a professional paint job going for these days? I am estimating around $1,500 - $2,000 for the job? Am I under estimating?

BSiegPaint

Maybe you have your answer already, but I think you're probably close. My friend had his '68 hood painted (solid color) to fix some peeled areas and it was $1000. I looked at having my rear bumper repainted (before doing it myself) and the quote was $800. It takes the same amount of prep and time to shoot a small area as it does a large area, so the price is high....

pettrix

The paint shop also said that they will have to blend the new blue metallic (silver) paint into the top of the fenders so it can match. They said that if they just spray the hood, the fenders won't match so they have to blend the new paint onto the horizontal plane of the fenders. Not the vertical part as they will cut it at the line.

Is this true?

BSiegPaint

Absolutely true, otherwise you would see the difference in the way the metallic lays or a slight difference in reflected color, etc on the flat plane that is the hood and fenders. Always take the new material to a natural break point, like the top of the fenders.

VC455

Don't ignore the significance of this when restoring your hood. Cracks indicate the underlying fiberglass has been over-stressed. This is normal for the age of the hood. The cracks will continue and will show up through new paint.

The remedy is to V-notch the entire crack and do a proper repair. Taking it to a body shop specializing in Corvettes is one route to getting this done correctly. You can then have your hood painted by your favorite paint shop.

After you get the hood repaired, read up on how to adjust the three (front) bumpers and how to close the hood to ensure the cracks stay away.

Good luck with the project.

Brad J.

VC455 is giving good advice. I used to relaminate corvette bodies. Basically add another layer or resin and glass mat. Fortunately for me I haven't done a vette in years and I shouldn't have to do one again.

Any big repairs on fiberglass will show through your paint. That is why we would relaminate in order to try and get a consistent foundation. Once the sun hits the glass and it starts expanding at different rates due to different material thickness/densities then it looks like crap. Nicest job in the world in the shop and once the sun heats it up then it's over. That is why I won't work with fiberglass anymore.

If you "v" out an area and re glass it can ghost through when the sun heats it up. Then it will shrink back down and disapear in the shade.

Keeping the thickness same across the board and similar resin and glass go a long way to a better job.

Spraying gel coat over the bare glass or epoxy primers aren't going to save you. Gel coat can seal small stress cracks but it's a gamble.

If they spend time getting the color right they could get it really close. Maybe not close enough for a fender/door but hoods can be more forgiving.

pettrix

The shop said the fiberglass was bad so they removed the bad fiberglass and then added new fiberglass resin to those areas. They then primed and sanded. Pics are attached.

pettrix

Brad J.

That is a lot of paint layers, why wouldn't you have them strip all the paint while they are half way there? It would be twice the cost but worth it.

pettrix

The whitish green tone is the fiberglass and the yellow is the primer. They stripped down and repaired the cracked areas but the other areas were OK. The cost was only to fix the front 1/3 of the hood. If they had to strip the entire hood, the cost would have doubled. Out of budget for me and the rest of the hood was fine so why disturb something that's not broken? Once you start messing with fiberglass, it can create other problems.

Brad J.

I see some grey,gold,yellow,blue paint that is being covered up with more primer, base, and 4-6 more coats of clear. I can't believe a shop would put their name on that.

They surely won't back their work if a bubble happens in the middle of the hood a month later. Then you'll be paying again for the re-do only it will be the entire strip and repaint. I'm just saying your halfway there to a proper job but then again I see it's in a collision shop and it's two different worlds between resto and collision.

For instance, do you see just under the left side hood scoop that has the gold dime size mark with yellow primer feathered around it. That is probably a star or a bubble or other glass imperfection that was just burried in 2k filler primer. It wasn't investigated or repaired, just blocked down and paved over.

Not trying to be a jerk but their is a reason why a proper paint job cost a lot more than a regular one. Nobody is getting fat on a 30k job, it's just the man hours add up for the details.

pettrix

I agree that removing ALL LAYERS down to the fiberglass would be best but the cost would be insane. As anyone here can attest to. These vehicles can quickly become MONEY PITS and most people put in more money than these cars are worth. So one has to balance between going insane with spending $$$ and trying for perfection vs. spending not as much and getting a very nice result. This vehicle is a driver, not a trailer show queen. So it will eventually see rock chips in the hood. Spending $3,000 to get the hood to show quality perfection but then only have it chipped away from driving seems kind of a waste of money. Perfection can be attained with $$ but once you drive the car, eventually it will show wear and chips on the hood. It's just the nature of the beast.

The hood had some fiberglass issues in front, couple of rocks chips and wear from 20 years since restoration. The middle to back of the hood was perfectly fine. Spending $1,000 to get the hood back to where it was when I restored 20 years ago is something worth spending $1k on but I don't want to spend $3k on a hood paint job. Only to have it damaged again by driving it down the road. This 442 is driven and it's only a matter of time before a rock chip dings the front hood again. It's just the way it is for a street driven car. Trailer queens are a whole other story.

Plus there is the danger of "fixing" something that isn't broken and creating other problems. With fiberglass, if the area is fine, why tamper with that area only to possibly create future problems by disturbing it?

Brad J.

I understand your view point. As a restorer I don't agree with it.

3-4 hours to strip the remainder of the hood. Repair/inspect and spray epoxy over it and start over. They still have to paint/cut/buff the entire hood regardless of how much more is stripped.

They will be blocking the primer on the whole hood instead of the the front quarter. It better not double price as many of the steps are the same whether it's stripped or not. Just trying to educate from my point of view as a restorer. I don't work on this type of car other than I'm helping my dad recreate a 68' that he purchased new. I used to but moved away from the muscle/vettes years ago.

I wish the best of luck on your project and I'm sure you will be happy.

pettrix

During the strip down, what happens if you hit the fiberglass and damage it, requiring it to be filled and repaired? That's where the unknown labor hours come into play. Plus now you are messing with fiberglass that was fine and didn't have problems with it.

I know it's easy to do when stripping and sanding down. It's not an exact science and when sanding, it happens a lot. Unlike metal, when you sand and hit the fiberglass, it will need to be repaired and filled.

pettrix

They mixed the paint and get it 99% close. With the fender blend, it won't be noticeable. I'm glad I saved the original DuPont paint codes from the paint mix back in 1998.

pettrix

I've seen people restore vehicles, spending so much $$$ and time, trying to replicate every bolt and nut exactly to how the factory did it. To me, I don't get it. Once the vehicle is rolling down the street, the entire undercarriage will get road grime, asphalt markings, hot tar, rock chips, etc. Who cares if the factory chalk mark is replicated? Or if the brake calipers are colored the way they were 50 years ago? Road grime, brake dust, etc. will coat that area and nobody will tell the difference once all is said and done. UNLESS, you plan on it being a trailer queen, sitting on trailers and inside a garage it's entire life.

These vehicles were meant to be driven. That's the purpose of a car, to drive it. Artwork can be enjoyed hanging on a wall but theses cars will built with tires, they are meant to be driven.

Brad J.

You DA the paint down through each color layer until you arrive at the glass. So you sand the blue off and start over. Then sand the yellow off and start over, then sand the orange off, etc.... Your not taking a hammer and chisel to the hood.

Once down to bare glass then you can apply Epoxy primer to seal the glass. Do your filler work over the epoxy and you have a great foundation. 20 year old whatever foundation is nothing I'd paint over. Do it once and forget about it. I know several body shop owners and non of them use epoxy primer. It's a slower product but a superior product as to self etch primer or just 2k urethane primer that isn't designed for bare metal but they use it anyway because they are in a hurry all the time.

I get you with all the markings and such. It's a waste of time but doesn't take very long and will clean right up with the modern paint materials we use. You guys are lucky you can find modern replicas of the proper fasteners. I have to stand at a lathe and make nuts and bolts for the cars I work on. They have their own special thread pitch and head heights. If your restoring a car and have to put it together, why not put the correct parts on it? Putting the proper fasteners on the car doesn't take any longer than putting SS hardware bolts on. On my dad's 68' I've been able to save 95% of the original fasteners and re plate them. I'll admit that plating takes more time and it's a crappy job to get stuck with.

Go to a corvette meet and you'll hang yourself from a short rope listening to these boring guys rambling on about hose clamps indexed at 2:00 o'clock. The Old's nationals might be like this.

My customer base will have a car completely restored to the highest level and then drive it like a used car. They have people to clean them up for them.

pettrix

I never understood that mindset of trying to replicate the way a hose clamp was installed 50 years ago and spending so much time and energy in trying to replicate that. Who cares? I met a purist who obsessed about those things. He cared more about that than obsessing about his own health. If he only took the time to check and verify his own health as he did about how a heater hose was supposed to be molded 50 years ago. He would be alive today. He died of a heart attack that was preventable had he taken his blood pressure and gotten a yearly physical to see that he was getting coronary artery disease.

Those "types" of people or "purists" are slowly fading away. Dying away more like it. Not to sound mean but that's the reality of it. This hobby can only survive through the younger generation (20-30 year olds) having interest in these vehicles. Jay Leno said it best, and I'm paraphrasing, this hobby requires the younger generation to get involved. The older cars have to be modified to stop better, handle better and be more reliable than they were built 50 years ago. Auto technology advanced greatly since then. A new muscle car will put an older muscle car to shame in handling, braking, comfort, reliability, safety, MPG, horsepower (800HP factory cars being produced today), etc. So why would anyone want a 50 year old car that has the correct factory firewall smudges or the correct caliper paint color? They don't give a care about that and that is not what will draw the younger generation to the hobby.

I drive them like they were supposed to be driven. I modify them to make them safer and faster. I could care less about what the correct master cylinder color was or is. Even the GM engineers knew these vehicles would fall apart and become junkyard scrap in a few years after being built. The odometers only went up to 99,999 miles back in the 70s'. They knew they weren't engineered to last past that mileage. Today's engineered cars can easily go over 200,000 miles when maintained. Anyways, that's my rant.

pettrix

Here is the repaired and finished hood...

Brad J.

I think the drivability upgrades are dependant on your location. Jay is in an area that would suck to have old cars. Traffic is hard on brakes and hard on cooling systems. I was into the LS thing 15+ years ago and had a chevelle with a 5.3 back then. It's ran it's course for me and they are done to death. Any of these 60's/70's cars have plenty of engine and most have good brakes. Especially the Olds v-8's and they look cool and will last a long time with modern oils.

Cars of the 40's/50's have pretty darn good brakes. At least the Cadillacs,Packards,Buicks I work on. They lock the tires up with good feel, can't ask for much more. Our 35' Auburn has very good brakes but our 31' Buick can be darn right scary sometimes. Now the 3 cars from the turn of century that are in the shop only have rear brakes. You have to be very careful and were fortunate to live in a low traffic area.

The new muscle cars can't duplicate sticking your arm out the window and driving. Their is a feel/bond associated with the driving experience. As we all get older most can't remember or have ever driven these vehicles. I own a 59' GMC truck on a modern frame and a 4.3 fuel injected motor out of a 2010 vehicle. I built it as a shop truck and I like everything about it except the driving experience. Not as interesting as the 4 speed creeper gear six cylinder that was in the car. All the driving feeling is gone from that vehicle. That is just my take from a mid 40 year old that has driven a bunch of vehicles from 1908 through 1972. Jay is right about engergizing the younger generation. This will be harder as the years roll on because kids don't use the cars like we did to escape and see your friends. They bury their noses in a stupid phone and can communicate without opening their mouths.

Your hood looks nice.

VC455

Well put, Brad.

pettrix

After the shop did some wet sanding and some buffing. I noticed some swirl marks in the clear. Can this be buffed out or will buffing just create more fine swirls in the clear?

Brad J.

They usually can be buffed out. But, chances are they didn't go fine enough with compounds and types of foam pads. Insurance shops usually don't have the necessary foam pads and polish that is required because aren't normally bringing a finish to the required level that a resto shop does. In keeping the price lower they don't spend the time it takes.

They usually do a 2 step polish and some guys still use wool which is pretty good at making swirl marks. It's fine for modern collision shop but we have to use 4 or more different types of foam with different polish and sometimes da type polishers for dark colors.

pettrix

I was thinking of using an orbital buffer since it's safer and then using 3M ultra fine compound.

That should help, right?

Brad J.

At this point it's trial and error. If you have an orbital and some ultra fine compound then you can try it. I'm not familair with ultra fine. I'd lean towards a black foam pad and 3m perfect it 2 (#2) on the bottle and go from there.

You can't hurt it with compound unless your using a wool pad and the old school paste that is really gritty. A lot of the 3-4 step compounds use yellow pads to cut, white cut a little less, black polish, and blue finer polish. Some have even more colors but your not doing black so it shouldn't be a problem.

Why not bring it back to the shop and ask them if they can get it better?

Jeff99

Let the clear dry for as long as you can. Soft clear will always swirl and you won’t get rid of it. No matter how much you buff