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Heya all you olds gurus! Seeing as i may have rushed my engine build last time wanting to run the car i am starting again and doing everything slowly making sure to get all the details right!
with that being said i would like some input from all you guys. The car is in storage and the engine is out, i plan on working on the engine when i get home for christmas.
the engine seized after the trans ran out of oil and the rod-bearings got spun. I have gotten the crank ground equally on all the journals but have not gotten to see it yet. Will post pictures after the 15. Desember when i get back
I want to do as much as i can to make sure the engine is in the best possible shape to be put back in, to this end i plan to:
1. replace all oil plugs and freeze plugs
2. Properly clean all the oil pathways
3. check oil clearence on bothe main bearings and the new oversize journal bearings?(connecting rod bearings?)
4. block the exhaust crossover on both heads
5. Check heads and deck to see if it needs resurfacing
6. find some way of telling if all the piston rings are on the correct way as i have too much variance when testing compression.
After reading alot of advice online i would like some feedback of what i should do
1. should i restrict oil going through main bearing 2, 3 and 4?
2. should i restrict oil in the lifter bores?
3. should i polish combustion chambers or do some mild diy porting anywhere?
4. should i have the deck surface and head surface milled?
5. chamfer and elongate oil «holes»?
6. enlarging oil drain holes in the heads?
7. port-matching oil pump and thermostat housing?
i want to do whatever improvements i can while the engine is out. My priority is power and driveabillity. Any diy improvements that i can do to help me get better at engine building is welcome as this is supposed to be a build where i try to learn as much as possible.
I am a youngster so i hope you will be gentle as i am bound to make some dumb mistakes. I am following the olds v8 engine rebuild book by Mike forsythe.
current parts on the engine:
- edelbrock 650cfm with electric choke
- Offenhauser 360 intake
- #4 heads
- 1.6:1 roller rockers
- hydraulic lifters
- new valve springs and retainers
- new stock cam only ran until it seized (will check for damage)
- stock 330 crank ground to .040 due to spun bearings
- i suspect a high volume oil pump but it might be the pressure sender that is faulty
- stock 330 hi-comp pistons
-Shim style intake and headgaskets with cork for valvecovers and oil pan.
-HEI dist, vacuum advance
also, here standard unleaded is 95 octane and premium is 98 if that is neccessary info
Last edited by Kirdid; December 23rd, 2022 at 07:28 AM.
For driveability you may want to not block the intake heat crossover, let's see what others say.
Replace oil plugs and freeze plugs...make sure the correct oil galley plugs are installed at the distributor gear and timing chain.
Turbo 400 is more transmission than needed behind a 330 in a light car. This may be giving up some horsepower vs. a TH350.
If the rings were potentially installed wrong I'd start over with new rings.
Good luck!!!
thank you for the input!
from the pan bolts and shape i made it out to be a th400. I know it might be on the heftier side but as long as i can find the leak on it i hope it will last me some time.
new rings sound smart!
For better power and drivability ditch the offenhauser intake and edelbrock carb. A good Qjet and a better intake will wake it up too.
I will definetely keep that in mind if any come my way (which is rare) i can spend money on a new carb but any way to improve on the offenhauser or should i just keep looking for en rpm or performer? Any other suggestions for intakes or carbs? Need to have a few to pick from seeing as parts are scarce and shipping is hella expensive
I will definetely keep that in mind if any come my way (which is rare) i can spend money on a new carb but any way to improve on the offenhauser or should i just keep looking for en rpm or performer? Any other suggestions for intakes or carbs? Need to have a few to pick from seeing as parts are scarce and shipping is hella expensive
Personally a RPM performer would work better than a plain performer. I also like the 750 vacuum holley way better. Edelbrock carbs are not something I would run. Others will have their opinions too.
Originally Posted by 66SportCoupe;[url=tel:1465237
1465237[/url]]Personally a RPM performer would work better than a plain performer. I also like the 750 vacuum holley way better. Edelbrock carbs are not something I would run. Others will have their opinions too.
The oil galley plugs at the distributor/cam gear AND in the front of the block at the timing chain have an orifice in them to allow oil to the gears. If the wrong plugs are installed it doesn't end well.
The oil galley plugs at the distributor/cam gear AND in the front of the block at the timing chain have an orifice in them to allow oil to the gears. If the wrong plugs are installed it doesn't end well.
Good luck!!!
ohh i know this all too well, thats why i want to be thorough this time!
Got in the garage and removed all the freeze plugs, front oil plugs and found that the dist gear oiling plug was in fact overlooked by the previous owner and me since i had the wrong book.
started porting the exhaust and intake sides of the heads, a slow proccess, the result is as expected from a beginner, quite rough but smoother than it was. Would have been better but with me being broke the die grinder had to be cheap and the expensive burr i bought is simply too short to get where it needs to be, the finer grinding stones were too cheap so they never stopped bouncing therefore i settled with grinding down with the expensive burr and stopped there. Want to do the chambers to. Unsure if ill have the time before easter.
ill add pictures of both the porting and cam+crank bearings as they look pretty done Crank bearings, pretty worn Cam feels alright but doesnt look all that great The cam that sat in the engine when we got it, havent looked into it yet, not used for long but we thought it might have been causing contact between the valves and pistons Current oem cam Head # Before After yours truly had a crack at it
The area under the valves is where the porting will make the biggest difference. Did you find .040" bearings? Not a common oversize, they may be difficult to find. Most of your list isn't necessary as far as oiling mods. The heads were probably already cut and I assume they sealed fine?
The area under the valves is where the porting will make the biggest difference. Did you find .040" bearings? Not a common oversize, they may be difficult to find. Most of your list isn't necessary as far as oiling mods. The heads were probably already cut and I assume they sealed fine?
Ill probably have time to do port from the valve side before i assemble everything in easter, christmas has been a ****-show this year so my time had been more limited than i might have wanted
I did find some clevite bearings that fit well. Ill keep that in mind and drop the restrictors and cutting as ive never had any sealing problems. Ill have the block and heads chem-cleaned while im away and then put everything back together in easter. Too much metal shavings and sludge around in the block for me to clean it myself.
just to be completely clear were also metric so ill have to actually measure the crank to tell you the oversize, the guy that did the grinding ordered the bearings directly, he had to do some work on a few connecting rods too
Last edited by Kirdid; December 24th, 2022 at 04:26 AM.
As long as the machinist properly measured everything, you should be fine, if he ordered off his measurements. Yeah, we have been officially Metric since 1977. Realistically, we have Metric mixed in with the British Imperial system, us being a Commonwealth with a splash of the US standard system, since we are neighbours.
As long as the machinist properly measured everything, you should be fine, if he ordered off his measurements. Yeah, we have been officially Metric since 1977. Realistically, we have Metric mixed in with the British Imperial system, us being a Commonwealth with a splash of the US standard system, since we are neighbours.
And with that i think im pretty much set to assemble once i get the correct oil plug for the dist and have everything cleaned! Looking forward to easter now, hard to wait.
the pictures say it all i suppose, wrong main bearings and no chance of getting ones that fit so no engine mock up before summer :\ got everything as clean as i could and installed new piston rings + a quick hone(ball hone) so things should run smoothly once i get back home in May/June. Picture was gone but i installed frost plugs around the block, drilled out a plug to install as the dist oiling plug and installed all the other plugs aswell after cleaning all the pathways with rifle brushed and a mix of thinner and brake clean.
I noticed something fishy was going on the second i mocked up the crank and crank bearings. Almost 2mm of cleareance so i checked my book and th shipping manifest and guess what. Wrong crank besrings got sent and not only that but i was told that there wasnt anyone making .040 bearings, only .01, .02, .03 and .60 so before summer ill have to have the crank ground an additional .20 to get it down to .060 and order the appropriate bearings. I know i should have used a micrometer but it seems to have gone wherever all the 10mms go, so with the stores closed this had to do, and was accurate enough for now. I fin it weird of the machinist to firstly: not check whether .040 bearings were actually being made, and two: why did he grinf both the rod journals and main journals down by the same amount even though the spun bearings were on the rods? Results in a shitton of extra work for me. And now a new machinist. Gave the cylinders a quick hone to rid them of the glaze that was on them. Will probably need to hone them further before getting the engine into the car. Any feedback on the cylinder walls appreciated
Last edited by Kirdid; April 4th, 2023 at 04:56 AM.
At this moment I'm looking at this on a phone so not the greatest view but it looks to me like the crosshatch pattern angle isn't steep enough. It looks as though the hone wasn't moved up and down fast enough.
I see the same thing as you Sugar Bear, the hone not moved up and down through the cylinder fast enough to provide the recommended 30 degree crosshatch hone pattern. I am not a proponent of the high volume oil pump in a 330 or other Olds small block built for cruising or the occasional trip to the track. With their smaller diameter main and rod bearings and shorter stroke length they oil just fine with the stock oil pump. Same goes with any oil restrictors; they are not necessary on a small block built for cruising. Use the 292 Ford rear main seal in place of the rope seal. Clean all the residue from the old head gasket off the deck surface of the block and the surface of the heads before attempting any engine assembly. It has been mentioned before but I shall mention again, clean the oil galleries prior to assembly. Don't go crazy with the grinder in those ports, a little bit of smoothing under the valve seats in the pocket area will go a long way. I have never seen any reason to take the grinder to the combustion chamber, it will just lower your compression. Get rid of that Offy intake! Good luck!
1489944[/url]]At this moment I'm looking at this on a phone so not the greatest view but it looks to me like the crosshatch pattern angle isn't steep enough. It looks as though the hone wasn't moved up and down fast enough.
Anyone see it differently?
Good luck!!!
thank you for the input! Ill make sure to aim for the 30° cross when honing it before assembly
I see the same thing as you Sugar Bear, the hone not moved up and down through the cylinder fast enough to provide the recommended 30 degree crosshatch hone pattern. I am not a proponent of the high volume oil pump in a 330 or other Olds small block built for cruising or the occasional trip to the track. With their smaller diameter main and rod bearings and shorter stroke length they oil just fine with the stock oil pump. Same goes with any oil restrictors; they are not necessary on a small block built for cruising. Use the 292 Ford rear main seal in place of the rope seal. Clean all the residue from the old head gasket off the deck surface of the block and the surface of the heads before attempting any engine assembly. It has been mentioned before but I shall mention again, clean the oil galleries prior to assembly. Don't go crazy with the grinder in those ports, a little bit of smoothing under the valve seats in the pocket area will go a long way. I have never seen any reason to take the grinder to the combustion chamber, it will just lower your compression. Get rid of that Offy intake! Good luck!
great input! Im looking for a replacement for the offy but mainly chevy inntakes that pass through here, olds engines are few and far between
Thanks to Bill, and Carl from Speedtalk there will be an engine this summer after all! My pictures are all over the place but i hope to post enough of them.
Waiting for bearings and startup goods so i decided to do something about all the things i dislike about the car.
I used enough soap, thinner, and brake clean to poison myself, but i cleaned everything i could find and got rid of every single white part i could find as that was eating away at me.
got the electronics under the dash tidy while i had the heating out. Still more to tidy up Absolutely sick of the rough transition from white to black so i painted everything that was white, gray. Somewhat sloppily but im more than happy with it. Picked it down, cleaned everything and took notice of all the bolts and washers that were missing The offy isnt the best but i sure think it came out nice after glass blowing and some high temp engine paint. Lets hope it doesnt boil off.
ripped out the interior and soundproofed the floor, door cards, and firewall with some rather thick insulating panels.
ripped out the last remnants of useless wiring i had chose to leave before.
thought of hooking the windows up to something other than a long, hot cable in the car to short with. but ultimately decided against it as the connections on the chrome panel were far too hard to crimp on and i dont have my soldering equipment.
i still plan on tidying a bit and i have to paint the underside of the hood.
once im happy with how clean and tidy the car is ill remove the converter and start examining the transmission for leaks.
If trans good, then:
oil clearance
piston to valve clearance
final assembly
i think ill plop the engine in and build up the panels around it so i have space to work.
The Edelbrock carb you have will run fine when tuned properly, Especially if it is the AVS series. If you stick with it, you need a tuning or calibration kit to dial it in. It comes with an assortment of enrichment rods springs and primary and secondary jets. As cutlassefi always says use a A/F meter to dial it in correctly.
Looks like this, (this is not necessarily the kit for your carb, just an example)
I have a eddy carb on my 455 Cutlass and it runs perfecly.
Last edited by gs72; June 14th, 2023 at 12:15 PM.
Reason: Added more info
The Edelbrock carb you have will run fine when tuned properly, Especially if it is the AVS series. If you stick with it, you need a tuning or calibration kit to dial it in. It comes with an assortment of enrichment rods springs and primary and secondary jets. As cutlassefi always says use a A/F meter to dial it in correctly.
Looks like this, (this is not necessarily the kit for your carb, just an example)
I have a eddy carb on my 455 Cutlass and it runs perfecly.
Got my main bearings today and after giving the thrust bearings half a minute on some sandpaper everything looked good and turned over well.
Torqued the crank down (without seal), and got oil clearances of 0.0015 - 0.0020 so i lubed it all up and torqued it down once again. Curiously the crank wont turn, not even with a bar, so i remove the caps and install them untill it stops and i realize that the fifth main cap with the rope seal is the culprit. I cut the threads as flush as possible on the seal and when the cap was of the seal looked to be seated well, but when torqued down i have zero chance of turning it. The seal was flattened, pressed in and given a few drops of oil to make sure the crank rotates but to no luck. I will look more into it after some sleep.
Get rid of the rope seal and replace with with a lip type seal; Felpro part number BS6141 works fine in the 330 Olds motor. The original application of this rear main seal is for the 292 CID Ford motor but we have been using it in the Olds small block motors successfully for the past 50 or so years! Should be readily available wherever Felpro products are sold.
Get rid of the rope seal and replace with with a lip type seal; Felpro part number BS6141 works fine in the 330 Olds motor. The original application of this rear main seal is for the 292 CID Ford motor but we have been using it in the Olds small block motors successfully for the past 50 or so years! Should be readily available wherever Felpro products are sold.
thank you, I will jot the part number down for next time since time and shipping is killing me!
I gradually tightened the end cap while trying to keep the crank moving with a breaker bar and got it all moving freely after some time and effort so i think im in the clear as of now.
I want to thank everyone here for their continued support and drive to help me through this project. I spit every ounce of time, energy, and money into this car and it has been my dream and every waking thought for the last four years.
The block is cracked and I am both broke, and my mental health has declined sharply. I just don't have it in me to keep chasing this dream. I will buy a Buick 350 to install in the car over the weekend and then sell it to give me some peace of mind. i'll keep the 330 incase i or anyone else might need the parts in the future.
i am exhausted, broke and barely keeping it together, and I need an actually driveable car before I get back to Uni in mid-August so I just need to face reality, and get this beautiful car out to someone who has the stabillity to enjoy it.
Thank you all for your support and i wish it could be different. I hope i'll see you guys on here again sometime, preferably with more success.
I understand, living outside of the US does present logistical challenges.
it sure does! i've been chasing parts and engines for four years and i just don't have the motivation anymore, i need money for actual things like food and a car that drives so i need to throw in the towel.
done everything by the book and still there is no end to the problems, time to buy a VW golf
November 21st, 2022, 01:36 PM
