A/C programmer location
April 30th, 2010, 06:06 PM
#1
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
A/C programmer location
Does anyone know where the A/C programmer for a 1995 Olds (98) Regency hides? Also would be handy if you have any tips to access or pull it out.
My A/C is acting up again. There's nothing wrong with the compressor; the A/C blows nice and cold. The problem is the air distribution in the car defaults to the defrost position. I took the car to a dealer (who duplicated the condition). They say the programmer (which is all electronic) is no good, and the part is discontinued since the car is from 1995. I need to go to the boneyard and hunt one down, but don't want to "practice" on my car. Any help (pics would be great) would be helpful. thx
My A/C is acting up again. There's nothing wrong with the compressor; the A/C blows nice and cold. The problem is the air distribution in the car defaults to the defrost position. I took the car to a dealer (who duplicated the condition). They say the programmer (which is all electronic) is no good, and the part is discontinued since the car is from 1995. I need to go to the boneyard and hunt one down, but don't want to "practice" on my car. Any help (pics would be great) would be helpful. thx
July 1st, 2010, 07:15 PM
#2
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Half way there
Ok,
I found out where the programmer hides on just about every kind of car that can be used as a donor. Duh! under the glove box or near the passenger kick panel......You just need the right sockets and some patience.
Today I went out to the wreckers. Kind of neat...they have an inventory listed on the web page you can browse through before you go now. Not that it's accurate because it's so new. Anyway it was nice out so I packed a took kit and headed out.
Only took about 2 minutes to find a Buick Park Avenue with auto air. Kinda did a butcher job getting the programmer out, but I mostly wanted to see what it looked like inside first.
2 rows over was my target: a 1996 LSS 88. Now the really nice thing about this car is that the interior is EXACTLY the same as mine. So now I was very careful to take the glove box and lower valences out so I could access the programmer. Disconnecting the main plug, the pushrod for venting and undoing the 2 9/32 bolts that hold it in place were easy. So was disconnecting the pink line that goes to the engine vacuum line.
The 2 biggest PITAs: disconnecting the sun load sensor plug from the top end of the programmer. (Its hard to see and you need to know how it's assembled to get it right the first time) Anyway, after about 10 minutes of farting around, I got the plug out.
Now the problem is: How to disconnect the male/female connector from the programmer. It is seated with an 8 mm nut on about a 1 inch threaded bolt. I didn't have deep sockets so I just cut the vacuum lines where I know there will be no issues. Now I need an 8 mm deep socket to take the connectors apart.
And, the reason the AC doesn't work right? The male connector going from the programmer to the female connector has gone soft (maybe I should give it a shot of liquid viagra??) and needs to be replaced or bypassed.
Tomorrow morning it's off to the tool bin and find a deep 8 mm. Then I'm going to fix this stupid AC system myself. (I did find some NOS replacements for about 500.00) The programmer I got from the wrecker cost me $35.00 - including tax and core of 5.00 One of the local stores here told me that it would be around the "ballpark" of a "couple hundred" to fix. Now I know they're full of BS. They would use the bypass technique I read about, claim 2 hours and shop supplies and give me some lame *** excuse about how difficult the repair is.
I'll post photos in case anyone's interested. BTW - the programmer in the Olds LSS, 88, 98 Buick Park Avenue, Lesabre, Pontiac Grand prix and Bonneville are all the same from about 1989-1999. That's a lot of cars that have good donor parts.
I found out where the programmer hides on just about every kind of car that can be used as a donor. Duh! under the glove box or near the passenger kick panel......You just need the right sockets and some patience.
Today I went out to the wreckers. Kind of neat...they have an inventory listed on the web page you can browse through before you go now. Not that it's accurate because it's so new. Anyway it was nice out so I packed a took kit and headed out.
Only took about 2 minutes to find a Buick Park Avenue with auto air. Kinda did a butcher job getting the programmer out, but I mostly wanted to see what it looked like inside first.
2 rows over was my target: a 1996 LSS 88. Now the really nice thing about this car is that the interior is EXACTLY the same as mine. So now I was very careful to take the glove box and lower valences out so I could access the programmer. Disconnecting the main plug, the pushrod for venting and undoing the 2 9/32 bolts that hold it in place were easy. So was disconnecting the pink line that goes to the engine vacuum line.
The 2 biggest PITAs: disconnecting the sun load sensor plug from the top end of the programmer. (Its hard to see and you need to know how it's assembled to get it right the first time) Anyway, after about 10 minutes of farting around, I got the plug out.
Now the problem is: How to disconnect the male/female connector from the programmer. It is seated with an 8 mm nut on about a 1 inch threaded bolt. I didn't have deep sockets so I just cut the vacuum lines where I know there will be no issues. Now I need an 8 mm deep socket to take the connectors apart.
And, the reason the AC doesn't work right? The male connector going from the programmer to the female connector has gone soft (maybe I should give it a shot of liquid viagra??) and needs to be replaced or bypassed.
Tomorrow morning it's off to the tool bin and find a deep 8 mm. Then I'm going to fix this stupid AC system myself. (I did find some NOS replacements for about 500.00) The programmer I got from the wrecker cost me $35.00 - including tax and core of 5.00 One of the local stores here told me that it would be around the "ballpark" of a "couple hundred" to fix. Now I know they're full of BS. They would use the bypass technique I read about, claim 2 hours and shop supplies and give me some lame *** excuse about how difficult the repair is.
I'll post photos in case anyone's interested. BTW - the programmer in the Olds LSS, 88, 98 Buick Park Avenue, Lesabre, Pontiac Grand prix and Bonneville are all the same from about 1989-1999. That's a lot of cars that have good donor parts.
July 9th, 2010, 08:18 AM
#3
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spring Green WI
Posts: 4
Hey Allan, Just read your post. Sounds like we're having possibly the same issue. I have an LSS that only blows from the defroster or the heater, nothing comes out the vents. Any other words of wisdom or pictures you could provide would be great.
Thanks - Al
Thanks - Al
July 9th, 2010, 03:29 PM
#4
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Here's what I've got on this
Wow! I was beginning to think I was the only one who had this issue.
There could be 3 possible causes for your AC problem. Vacuum leak, faulty vacuum connectors, or faulty programmer, so here goes. (BTW your LSS should have the same dash setup as my 98 so I'll put some pictures in to help you out)
1. First possibility is that you might have a vacuum leak.
You're going to have to take the lower dash & glove box out to get to the programmer. Start by undoing all the 9/32 screws on the bottom shroud, then also undo the 9/32 screws that hold the glove box. There's also a 10 mm bolt on the left side of the lower glove box that has to come out. Move the lower shroud out of the way - you'll probably have to disconnect the SRS yellow wire. The glove box will come out fairly easy - just wiggle it forward and also help the rubber "ears" that act as stoppers past their detents. Use a small flatblade to wiggle the trunk release up so you can disconnect it. Otherwise the glove box will hang on that wire and get in the way.
Now you can see the programmer and the vacuum lines. While the car is running, wiggle the PINK connector off the black line that comes in from the engine bay. If it has no vacuum - that's probably the problem. Find the vacuum leak and your AC should work. If not.....
Your car will likely have sun load sensors. there are 4 very thin wires coming out of the top of the programmer that go to a connector just above and to the left. There is a lock connector that keeps is from wiggling loose. Use a small flatblade to push the lock connector to the right a little and GENTLY wiggle the connector straight up. It should release quite easy. It's a cramped space and if you have big mitts like I do, it can take a little bit of time to get this done.
IMG_1255-1.jpg?t=1278712907
2. Another thing that is common: the male connector on the programmer has turned to soft rubber and is collapsing when vacuum is run through the connection for the AC vent door control. Don't ask me which colored line it is, cause I don't know. Anyway, here's a picture of the part that could be causing the problem and how to replace it.
You need to disconnect the "C" shaped plastic belcrank that controls the heat/cold blend door. It's only held in by a plastic grommet. Don't try to take out the grommet, just push the metal rod toward the firewall till it pops out. Don't worry about what position the pushrod is in, the AC will re establish that when it's re-connected.
Use your 9/32 or 7 mm socket to undo and remove the 2 screws that hold the programmer in place. (one on left middle, one on lower right) Disconnect the main electrical plug on the face of the programmer.
You should now be able to wiggle and drop the programmer down and out.
IMG_1254-1.jpg?t=1278713070
Now, use a DEEP either 9/32 or 7 mm socket and undo the nut that protrudes from the vacuum line connector. You have to be really patient with this process because it takes time and these parts tend to be really seated in place after a number of years exposed to heat. The female clear connector is relatively soft and you should be able to get your socket on it and undo the nut. Gently wiggle (back/forth/up/down) until you can see the suction break loose on the connectors. When you separate the male/female connectors immediately check the condition of the black male connector. If the connectors are really soft and rubbery, that's most likely your problem. You're going to have to replace it by taking the programmer apart and reinstalling a good connector from the wrecker. You can also open up the programmer and bypass both connectors by cutting them out and re-connecting the vacuum lines as a continuous run. I didn't do that because I couldn't find good connectors, and it might not be the problem. Anyway, if the connector is rubbery, get a new one from the boneyard. You can use the connector from anything as old as 86 to replace it with.
IMG_1261-1.jpg?t=1278713199
If your connectors are good, it's your programmer. Get a replacement from the boneyard. GM does NOT have replacements. Even AC shops don't stock them. If you do find one on the web, it's likely going to cost over 500 bucks. A wrecker only charged me 29 +core.
Probably it will be a defective solenoid on the circuit board, but which one? GM still has proprietary rights to the circuit design and has not released them for shops to bench test as far as I know. Part of the GM (Grab Money) policy on parts replacement.
*****CRITICAL NOTE******* Found this out by experience.
If your car has the digital cluster and displays for auto air, you must find a programmer that is from the same production year. For some idiotic reason those cluster get all confused and won't let the AC work if its not from the same year.
IMG_1262-1.jpg?t=1278713304
Once you get to the stage that corrects your problem, simply reverse the process and put your car back together. I have to go back to the wrecker with the programmer I got. It's from a 96 LSS and is not compatible with my car. I need one from 94 or 95.
LMK if you need the programmer and your LSS is a 96 I'll sell it to you for what I paid + shipping to you. I don't guarantee anything with the used programmer because I can't test it properly and I'm not an electrician. Hope one of the other options that's listed above solves your problem.
There could be 3 possible causes for your AC problem. Vacuum leak, faulty vacuum connectors, or faulty programmer, so here goes. (BTW your LSS should have the same dash setup as my 98 so I'll put some pictures in to help you out)
1. First possibility is that you might have a vacuum leak.
You're going to have to take the lower dash & glove box out to get to the programmer. Start by undoing all the 9/32 screws on the bottom shroud, then also undo the 9/32 screws that hold the glove box. There's also a 10 mm bolt on the left side of the lower glove box that has to come out. Move the lower shroud out of the way - you'll probably have to disconnect the SRS yellow wire. The glove box will come out fairly easy - just wiggle it forward and also help the rubber "ears" that act as stoppers past their detents. Use a small flatblade to wiggle the trunk release up so you can disconnect it. Otherwise the glove box will hang on that wire and get in the way.
Now you can see the programmer and the vacuum lines. While the car is running, wiggle the PINK connector off the black line that comes in from the engine bay. If it has no vacuum - that's probably the problem. Find the vacuum leak and your AC should work. If not.....
Your car will likely have sun load sensors. there are 4 very thin wires coming out of the top of the programmer that go to a connector just above and to the left. There is a lock connector that keeps is from wiggling loose. Use a small flatblade to push the lock connector to the right a little and GENTLY wiggle the connector straight up. It should release quite easy. It's a cramped space and if you have big mitts like I do, it can take a little bit of time to get this done.
IMG_1255-1.jpg?t=1278712907
2. Another thing that is common: the male connector on the programmer has turned to soft rubber and is collapsing when vacuum is run through the connection for the AC vent door control. Don't ask me which colored line it is, cause I don't know. Anyway, here's a picture of the part that could be causing the problem and how to replace it.
You need to disconnect the "C" shaped plastic belcrank that controls the heat/cold blend door. It's only held in by a plastic grommet. Don't try to take out the grommet, just push the metal rod toward the firewall till it pops out. Don't worry about what position the pushrod is in, the AC will re establish that when it's re-connected.
Use your 9/32 or 7 mm socket to undo and remove the 2 screws that hold the programmer in place. (one on left middle, one on lower right) Disconnect the main electrical plug on the face of the programmer.
You should now be able to wiggle and drop the programmer down and out.
IMG_1254-1.jpg?t=1278713070
Now, use a DEEP either 9/32 or 7 mm socket and undo the nut that protrudes from the vacuum line connector. You have to be really patient with this process because it takes time and these parts tend to be really seated in place after a number of years exposed to heat. The female clear connector is relatively soft and you should be able to get your socket on it and undo the nut. Gently wiggle (back/forth/up/down) until you can see the suction break loose on the connectors. When you separate the male/female connectors immediately check the condition of the black male connector. If the connectors are really soft and rubbery, that's most likely your problem. You're going to have to replace it by taking the programmer apart and reinstalling a good connector from the wrecker. You can also open up the programmer and bypass both connectors by cutting them out and re-connecting the vacuum lines as a continuous run. I didn't do that because I couldn't find good connectors, and it might not be the problem. Anyway, if the connector is rubbery, get a new one from the boneyard. You can use the connector from anything as old as 86 to replace it with.
IMG_1261-1.jpg?t=1278713199
If your connectors are good, it's your programmer. Get a replacement from the boneyard. GM does NOT have replacements. Even AC shops don't stock them. If you do find one on the web, it's likely going to cost over 500 bucks. A wrecker only charged me 29 +core.
Probably it will be a defective solenoid on the circuit board, but which one? GM still has proprietary rights to the circuit design and has not released them for shops to bench test as far as I know. Part of the GM (Grab Money) policy on parts replacement.
*****CRITICAL NOTE******* Found this out by experience.
If your car has the digital cluster and displays for auto air, you must find a programmer that is from the same production year. For some idiotic reason those cluster get all confused and won't let the AC work if its not from the same year.
IMG_1262-1.jpg?t=1278713304
Once you get to the stage that corrects your problem, simply reverse the process and put your car back together. I have to go back to the wrecker with the programmer I got. It's from a 96 LSS and is not compatible with my car. I need one from 94 or 95.
LMK if you need the programmer and your LSS is a 96 I'll sell it to you for what I paid + shipping to you. I don't guarantee anything with the used programmer because I can't test it properly and I'm not an electrician. Hope one of the other options that's listed above solves your problem.
August 30th, 2010, 01:12 PM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spring Green WI
Posts: 4
So --- I got all the vents working, but now I have a new problem. AC just arbitrarily stops working. Sometimes for days, sometimes for minutes. I think it’s another vacuum problem because I have noticed that if I “Punch It” about ½ the time the AC starts working again. Any suggestions ?
August 30th, 2010, 04:05 PM
#7
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
So --- I got all the vents working, but now I have a new problem. AC just arbitrarily stops working. Sometimes for days, sometimes for minutes. I think it’s another vacuum problem because I have noticed that if I “Punch It” about ½ the time the AC starts working again. Any suggestions ?
If you are experiencing a loss of air flow,
1. Check your electrical connections to the fan blower. I know it's a PITA to work on. Maybe you have some contamination on the contacts. Use only electrical contact cleaner if you need to clean it.
2. Check your vacuum line from the intake manifold to the connector at the firewall. (it shouldn't have any real effect). It's a good idea to replace any vacuum line that is faulty anyway.
3. Check your vacuum connections to the programmer. Did you notice any of the plastic nipples were soft, or getting spongy? If they were they could be collapsing under heavy vacuum and then relaxing, which might be your problem.
These are all just shot in the dark questions/suggestions based on a rough guess of what you're saying. Really need more specific information.
August 30th, 2010, 07:09 PM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spring Green WI
Posts: 4
I'll take a look at your #2.
- Vents all work fine (I just recently bypassed the controller fitting because all the vacuum hoses were clogged).
- Air flow dosn't stop ---just goes warm (compressor shuts off).
- System is charged and not leaking.
- Compressor just "turns off". So whatever is suppose to be telling the compressor to turn-on isn't always doing it's job. Is this operated by a vacuum hose ?
- Vents all work fine (I just recently bypassed the controller fitting because all the vacuum hoses were clogged).
- Air flow dosn't stop ---just goes warm (compressor shuts off).
- System is charged and not leaking.
- Compressor just "turns off". So whatever is suppose to be telling the compressor to turn-on isn't always doing it's job. Is this operated by a vacuum hose ?
August 31st, 2010, 08:30 PM
#9
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
I'll take a look at your #2.
- Vents all work fine (I just recently bypassed the controller fitting because all the vacuum hoses were clogged).
- Air flow dosn't stop ---just goes warm (compressor shuts off).
- System is charged and not leaking.
- Compressor just "turns off". So whatever is suppose to be telling the compressor to turn-on isn't always doing it's job. Is this operated by a vacuum hose ?
- Vents all work fine (I just recently bypassed the controller fitting because all the vacuum hoses were clogged).
- Air flow dosn't stop ---just goes warm (compressor shuts off).
- System is charged and not leaking.
- Compressor just "turns off". So whatever is suppose to be telling the compressor to turn-on isn't always doing it's job. Is this operated by a vacuum hose ?
If you took the programmer out to do work, the "C" connector at the bottom connects to the hot/cold damper. If the pushrod only travels in one direction, a) there's a problem with vacuum or b) you may have damaged something in the programmer or c) the pushrod was not fully extended or seated into clip into the back of the C connector and may have come loose. What year and make is your car?
September 1st, 2010, 11:50 AM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Spring Green WI
Posts: 4
Hey Allan,
Appreciate your help, but let me explain the problem in an example.
Last night, I left a meeting about 30 miles from my house. Got in the car, started it, air condiction worked just fine. ABout twenty minutes into the drive home the system starts blowing basically outside air (compressor had shut off). I accelerrate "hard", "punch it", for about 2-3 seconds, and AC starts blowing cold again. Then after about 5 more minutes it repeats the problem, but I can't get it to blow cold again. Now, this morning I get it the car to go about 10 miles. System still wont blow cold, until I my drive back it just "starts back up" on it's own (compressor turns back on). ------- It's got me. I know for a fact that the compressor is shutting down, because I've pulled over and poped the hood. ????????
Appreciate your help, but let me explain the problem in an example.
Last night, I left a meeting about 30 miles from my house. Got in the car, started it, air condiction worked just fine. ABout twenty minutes into the drive home the system starts blowing basically outside air (compressor had shut off). I accelerrate "hard", "punch it", for about 2-3 seconds, and AC starts blowing cold again. Then after about 5 more minutes it repeats the problem, but I can't get it to blow cold again. Now, this morning I get it the car to go about 10 miles. System still wont blow cold, until I my drive back it just "starts back up" on it's own (compressor turns back on). ------- It's got me. I know for a fact that the compressor is shutting down, because I've pulled over and poped the hood. ????????
September 1st, 2010, 12:15 PM
#11
Past Administrator
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Rural Waxahachie Texas
Posts: 10,004
I am a lazy guy and have been living with the same problem for about a year now, maybe more. I really didn't want to crawl under the dash of the Buick but suspected a vacuum leak or possibly a bad connector as you described. The only time is is inconvenient is when it is really hot in the summer, having the cold air blow on your body makes a lot of difference. It gets kind of weird sometimes when the cold air makes the lower edge of the windshield so cold if the ambient air is very, very humid the moisture condenses on the outside. I guess since you have done all the hard work I will have to fix mine now that Jesse has revealed my laziness to the world. 
September 1st, 2010, 06:08 PM
#13
Just an Olds Guy
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
Posts: 24,525
Hey Allan,
Appreciate your help, but let me explain the problem in an example.
Last night, I left a meeting about 30 miles from my house. Got in the car, started it, air condiction worked just fine. ABout twenty minutes into the drive home the system starts blowing basically outside air (compressor had shut off). I accelerrate "hard", "punch it", for about 2-3 seconds, and AC starts blowing cold again. Then after about 5 more minutes it repeats the problem, but I can't get it to blow cold again. Now, this morning I get it the car to go about 10 miles. System still wont blow cold, until I my drive back it just "starts back up" on it's own (compressor turns back on). ------- It's got me. I know for a fact that the compressor is shutting down, because I've pulled over and poped the hood. ????????
Appreciate your help, but let me explain the problem in an example.
Last night, I left a meeting about 30 miles from my house. Got in the car, started it, air condiction worked just fine. ABout twenty minutes into the drive home the system starts blowing basically outside air (compressor had shut off). I accelerrate "hard", "punch it", for about 2-3 seconds, and AC starts blowing cold again. Then after about 5 more minutes it repeats the problem, but I can't get it to blow cold again. Now, this morning I get it the car to go about 10 miles. System still wont blow cold, until I my drive back it just "starts back up" on it's own (compressor turns back on). ------- It's got me. I know for a fact that the compressor is shutting down, because I've pulled over and poped the hood. ????????
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