bulletproof

Hello everybody I just joined.

My project is a 1984 Olds Toronado Caliente, this car has many factory special order parts including suspension. The body is almost mint and the interior is mint. The car has never idled or ran correct since my purchase 6 months ago.
Upon alot of debate I have removed the computor system. I installed from a 1982 Olds Toronado [none computor] the distributor and carb. Both these cars have the 307 Y with 5a heads. The carb is rebuilt, the intake manifold has been regasketed, the valve cover gaskets redone due to leakage. The car has 230,000 kms, the timing chain and gears I have replaced, the water pump is replaced as is the fuel pump. A new distributor cap, rotor and ignition module, new wires and plugs all are supposed to be good quality parts.
The car runs alot better now, when cold it runs perfectly smooth, as it warms up and the carb opens it idles gently at a high and low idle constantly. If I close the chock a little bit on the car it runs perfectly smooth at idle and under a load, but when it is fully open it has this up and down idle. When the chock is fully open you can put it in gear and it goes in gently and with appling the brake and giving it gas it powers up very well with no hesitation. It is a bit lumpy though when you release the gas at idle and hold the brake. Im trying to get this to run smooth and am hoping somebody has an answer as to the uneven idle. I have covered the carb with a rag and the engine stalls immediatly.
Im not sure if I have all my vacuum lines hooked up correct though. The climatic heater works. Once I have the car running smooth I am going after the cruise, air conditioning and overdrive. I have a performance shop in the city that is going to build me an Olds 350 [1960's]. This will be done in the fall when they slow down. Before delivering my car to them I want everything to work.
Thanks in advance for any help, Bo.

Texascarnut

I'm guessing originally having a computer the carburetor was also what is known as a Feedback carburetor. In simple terms if that is the case the engine will not run correctly without the computer or a non Feedback carburetor.

bulletproof

Thanks, I have removed the original carb [computor]. The now installed carb and distibutor are from a none computor car.

getawaycar

I am not familiar with that specific vehicle, but generally speaking when a computer is involved it controls or has input into a lot more than you would think. Maybe you will get the engine running ok by removing all the sensors and control system and installing older style components only to find now the trans doesn't shift right, or the alternator won't charge, or the dash air doesn't blow cold, or it won't pass smog inspection.

I have seen a lot of customers cause themselves a great deal of heartache trying to modify things that they don't really understand when there was a simple solution if they took it in at the beginning to someone with experience in that product. Just my two cents.

Welcome to the site. There are lots of helpful people here. I am sure someone knows that car like the back of their hand!

Chris

DENT

Just a thought , did you check for vacuum leaks? Some older carbs will leak around the throttle shaft and cause bad idling .

joe_padavano

Yes, replacing the carb and distributor with non-CCC units will completely bypass the computer as far as the engine is concerned (though the trans torque converter will not lock up anymore). Be aware that the 307 has several miles of vacuum hoses. A leak in any one of them (or a mis-connection) will cause a driveability problem. Replace all the hoses and ensure that they are connected correctly.

bulletproof

Thanks Joe I have read a number of your posts and hold great respect towards you.
My best friend who was killed in Afghanistan left me this car, he factory ordered the car in 1984. The dealerships up here never could get this car to run right and it was always his dream to remove the CCC.
I have removed the CCC. I took off the intake manifold cause I suspected it to be cracked or leaking. I dont feel that there is any vacuum leaks now. With all the work I have done the car runs a whole lot better than before I started. The heater vacuum is working correctly at this point. I read a post on how to get the A/C working and Overdrive.
I will admit that Im no mechanic, Im into trucks with diesels which I drag and show them, I gave up on gas pots years ago. This project is a different passion for me, I have spent hundreds of hours on and shed buckets of tears also. When I go to bed I think for hours on how to sort out this cars problems. I have no intentions of letting it beat me. When i speak to mechanics up here they crap on me for removing the CCC, not much help. Thank god for Car Crazy ppl as they have kept me entertained since a young age.
I am hopeing to find somebody that can explain as to where the vacuum lines go, the charts dont apply to my project. I suspect I have the vacuum lines routed incorrecly as I dont understand them. I do have a brand new roll of vacuum line though, lol. Thanks in advance for any help and guidance. Bo

frankr442

An 82 Q-jet would still be computer controlled. Is this possibly an older carb? Did both distributor and carb come off the same vehicle?

bulletproof

Hi and thanks, the 1982 Toronado was not CCC.

Rickman48

Have you adjusted the carb to it's highest point af vacuum, with a guage?
Where is the timing set?
Try timing 'by ear' - advance to ping, [while driving] and back off 2 degrees.
Since you've a unique situation/combination, you may have a carb that's a little rich, and the timing will help.
Then adjust the mixture again, to highest vacuum.

bulletproof

Hi and thanks for your help. Adjusting the carb is out of my league, lol. This is the point that I will get a mechanic over and do those adjustments. Thanks greatly for your input, I am very close to getting this car to run perfectly. Bo.

bulletproof

Hi, I have a mechanic who has retired and is familiar with this carb, he is coming over to adjust the carb for me in a week from now.
He asked if I could get all the routing for the vacuum lines before he arrives as he does not remember where they all go and it would be alot easier for him.
Do you folks know the routing for this and be able to guide me? I have the diagram on the vehicle for the CCC routing, not much help to me as the CCC is removed.
Again I myself am not a mechanic so if you could relay this to me in terms that I can understand, lol. Thanks ever so much. Bo.

If this helps my new carb and distributor is off a none CCC 1982 Toronado 307 y 5a.

frankr442

Can you get the carb# stamped on the left side of the bowl? It may help us find the correct vacuum diagram.

bulletproof

Hi again and thank you for your help. Today I was taking a drive out in the country and saw a Toronado parked among a dozen other cars. I knocked on the door and asked if it was for sale, I purchased her for $200.00. I also was able to start it up within an hours time.
This Toronado is a 1981, none CCC. All the vacuum lines are intact still and the aircleaner is there also which I now realise I needed. On the fan shroud is a clearly visible vacuum diagram, lol. I think I would have paid $200.00 just for that sticker.
My only question is that this should work? And thanks again in advance. Bo.

Rickman48

If you use the '81 carb and distributer, should be all there!

bulletproof

Thank you that should boost my confidence now to swap everything over. I am surprised with how many vacuum lines are involved on these cars. Up here we do not have emission enforcement and I have a feeling that is why there is so much stuff on theses cars. I am going to swap everything over though irregardless, I am really looking forward to getting my good car running proper.
Thanks everybody for your help up to this point. Bo.

kartmaster

Just another idea, make sure your EGR is functioning correctly. It can cause idle issues if it is stuck open, and pinging under part throttle if stuck closed, so it's best not to simply remove or block it off.

frankr442

Good point on the EGR valve. It's about the only emissions system I've left on my 80's cars. Have to admit I'm still qurious about the carb# because my GM parts catalog lists a throttle position sensor and a mixture control solenoid for an 81 Toro 307, which to me implies CCC.

Tedd Thompson

With all the miles on that car you might want to do a compression check, this could be a burnt valve. Symptoms would be a rough idle and it would smooth out at higher rpm. Can you hear at the exhaust a swish sound (hard to explain unless you have heard it) when the miss is present? Just a thought before you get to far into the engine....Tedd

bulletproof

Thanks Gentleman, I will be sure to check the EGR. As to the carb for the 1982 @ 1981 just to satisfy curiousity I shall find the numbers and get them on here within the next week. Who knows there may be something there, it would not be the first time this car has kicked me in the butt, lol.
Compression and valve testing is one of the first things I had done upon recieving this car, a certified mechanic did this for me. It checked out to be very good, this is the reason I removed the intake manifold as we suspected a leak.
It is strange that the car runs perfectly smooth until the choke opens fully, if we close the choke even a quarter of an inch, which is not fully closed it runs perfectly smooth again.
Also no swishing at the rear exhaust again at the rear when cold and warming up it runs perfectly smooth by ear, as it warms it goes into a slight high low rev up and down which is easily heard at the rear pipe. This is a distinct noise also under the hood once warmed up. Most may not notice this but my father was a mechanic and taught me at a young age the importance of listening to the engine.
Thanks all for the help again, also thanks for the homework, lol. Has any of you knocked out the CCC on one of theses cars yet? Bo.