11971four4two

I drove the 71 over to exhaust shop the other day. I told them I had NOS tailpipes and lead pipes from manifolds back. all i wanted was install and buy mufflers shop supplies etc. Price $600 or complete mandrel custom job for $1000 plus

But before doing that the rear end pinion bearing and seal is wiped out and rear needs overhaul for $800- $1200 more.

Time to return the fossil to hibernation I guess

I have started saving aluminum cans for a fix the 442 fund

CHEERS

droptopron

Its an expensive hobby. I wanted to get rid of my headersd & go back to manifolds but the $$ isn't there right now. I am in the middle of trying to diagnose an electrical draw that keeps killing my battery. I never did any kind of electricakl work but these cars are like a house. If you pay to get everything done you'll go broke fast.
if you have aplace to work trying tackling the exhaust yourself. its something if you eff it up you really won't be worse off than you are now.

cutlassjoe

It seems any time you bring a car into the shop it's a minimum $500.00 repair. Some shops, not all see a classic car come in and they think $$$$! It's the same with the daily drivers too. Good luck with collecting the cans.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I've never brought my cutlass too a shop (also take note it took me 2 weeks to change a bloody timing chain).

I dont even want to know what they'd try to rip me for doing a dual exhaust setup on my car.

I'm probably going to buy the ILT dual exhaust setup in the next year and install that. Supposedly its excellent quality.

11971four4two

I am not ready to mess with the axle rebuild myself. After I get that squared away I will tackle the exhaust system. I think I will hangin' the exhaust here. six hundred $ will buy many full aluminum cans

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Supposedly 507olds and monzaz do a super job at axle rebuilds.

11971four4two

Then I would have to take the critter out of the car. I am tempted just to buy a complete rear from one of those guys but afraid to find out how much MO MONEY MO that would cost. I do not have enuff cans saved up yet to pester those gents to get estimates on buying a rebuilt 71 442 10bolt 308 posi
and shipping it to MN

74 Omega

Why is someone charging you money for something you cannot do a rip off

Can everyone please paste their jobs and salaries so we can see who is ripping off who

Everyone in this country wants to make as much money as possible but not let anyone else make any money at all...it is a business after all. People are free not to use them and find less expensive option but just because one charges more than another does not mean is a rip-off.

A rip-off in my opinion, is charging any amount and doing a lousy job.
You usually get what you pay for.
This is right on the side of my work trucks & trailers
IMG_0952.jpg

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I just believe that garages are for people that dont have time to do repairs or are unable/dont have the tools to do them themselves.

Personally, i'm probably going to be turning wrenches until i'm 85, but every day is a new adventure.

rennoc442

Omega,

You hit the nail DEAD ON! I am always thinking that whenever I go somewhere and people ask for a discount. I would be upset if someone (and they do) ask me to DISCOUNT my rates!! I am sorry, but I am a professional in my area and charge accordingly. I do not rip off people, because my product is top notch, like yours is Omega.

If you cant fix your own classic (part of the reason why I own one is low cost of ownership) then man up and pay someone who KNOWS how and has the tools to do so. Im sure the shops overhead is way more then anyone here could imagine.

11971four4two

I never argued about the price.

I was given an honest estimate for a quality job using made in USA parts and labor. Shop rates are clearly stated in shops of good repute. I thanked the guy for taking the time to put my car on his lift , and then spend valuable time going over my car and the estimate with me. I will go back when I can afford their expert services. Support your local small businesses while you can!

11971four4two

74 omega

I like the slogan you have on your trucks!

rennoc442

Sorry about that, I kinda went off on a rant!

I see now that you were just posting your finds, and you cant afford to fix it. Sorry.

If you were closer, I would help you fix the rear axle, and try to help with the exhaust. Sometimes not having a pipe bender sucks!

Rickman48

Those were VERY unfriendly prices!
I managed an exhaust shop, and we did almost anything automotive, too.
I'd have been $300 to install your exhaust, if all went well, and $300 to R+R the rear end assembly.
I'd call around - that guy just didn't want to do it!

rennoc442

I dont think a complete mandrel bend for about $1000 is high, that sounds about right. Now $600 for just mufflers, supplies, and intall his parts is maybe a little high, but who knows what mufflers etc the price includes?

The most expensive part is labor, I think its now around $90/hr here in central fl.

Allan R

Whoooaaa!! Good that you can do this yourself, and I'm not questioning YOUR professionalism. But here's a flip side: I asked a shop to install NOS parts that I brought in and they said there would be an EXTRA charge to do that because they wouldn't get the normal markup they were ENTITLED to. If I had a car lift and knew how to weld, I wouldn't go to a shop. But I won't be ripped off by someone who simply wants to mark up MY PARTS to suit their profit margin. This has nothing to do with Man Up. And as for wages? Yeah, I make a LOT of money as a pensioner. Try living on my pension for a couple months and then see how you feel about this.

I used to work for a large corporation that got tons of discounts for this type of work/product. As a retiree, I ASK if I can still participate in the employee discount that was previously offered. I does NOT hurt to ASK. You have the right to refuse as much as I have the right to choose who does the repair.

boese1978

Hey Brian- did you check with the Wonderful Muffler Man over on Rice Street ? I spoke with him a bit over a year ago just for the heck of it and he may be able to beat your quote. He specializes in our kind of thing....

74 Omega

I will not install anyones materials on my jobs...If you want to buy them, thats ok, just install them or get a "guy in a pick-up" they are a dime a dozen, to install them.
People will say they bought cabinets at Home Creapo and want me to install them...lol
Why don't you buy a steak, bring it to a steak house and have them prepare it for you...Just pay labor for the chef...

This is NOT a personal attack on you, but as for your company, they were able to offer pension because your company made a profit and overhead to allow for employee pensions funds. I could be wrong because I really don't know how pensions work, I've only worked for myself...no pension here, no ability for a savings or 401k if everyone only pays labor....maybe the Government will take care of me??

Allan R

Yeah I know it's not an attack on me. I get that business has to make a profit. FYI the reason I have a pension plan is because I paid into it as did my employer. Had nothing to do with profits or overheads, it was a union negotiated benefit. And also I also gave more than was ever expected or asked of me while I was working; including volunteering my time on special projects or work related events.

I also want you to know that I'm not attacking you. Just can't afford someone with your cost factor. So I would be forced to go to a different shop or a friend that can weld to do this. Just because it wasn't done in a shop doesn't mean it can't be a quality job. I was speaking with a retired professional welder/business owner last night who said the average guy could pick up mig welding in prolly 1/2 hour and do a decent job. I was just saying I don't get why a shop won't install a customers parts for the labor and associated overhead specially since there's not going to be any warranty on it.

MDchanic

Well, then I guess he should have just had the shop owner pick up a genuine GM NOS exhaust system for his restoration, then, right? He should be able to have the local jobber drop those off before noon, I guess.

So if you had a customer doing a restoration on an antique house, and they had searched far and wide and collected a set of original, period-correct antique fixtures, you would refuse to install them?
Sounds like a winning business strategy to me.

- Eric

rennoc442

I dont know why for the whoooaa, but I think you know buying/owning a vehicle that is 30plus years old is going to require some work. Nothing last forever. If one were trying to save money while owning an older car, I think then one should learn how to fix it. If not then pay someone who can, period.

When you bring in a 30 year old NOS part in, who knows where its been, if its been banged up, will it fit right, etc etc. If you buy their part, then the mark up fits since they are giving you a warrenty. No warrenty on your old parts.

Pension, what is that? No one or almost no companies offer that anymore, thank God you even have one. BTW my dad has one from Oldsmobile (GM), does that entitle me to a discount??!!

You can ask for discounts/perks, no harm in asking.

rennoc442

No profit=No pension

rennoc442

Why must you have a lift, I do this kind of stuff in the driveway or on the garage floor. Maybe you need to find a shop that does older cars. You go to a shop that does newer cars, usually they dont take care and work on your car like it was theirs. They are in for a fast turn around, as long as it holds up and doesnt fall off, they are good with it. Who cares if its crooked, rubbing on your brake line, or has porosity welds.

74 Omega

Well I don't do historic restorations, I do mostly kitchens, baths, decks and additions, and yes thank you, it is a winning strategy. And yes in that situation I would use the parts, I also have a clause in my contract for that exact situation.

I'm just a guy trying to make a living and keeping my guys busy and supporting their families.
I don't remember hearing what you do and how you make a living...my guess is there is a profit in it for someone, with benefits too.

How come people love turning wrenches or DIY home projects on weekends, but if you do it for a living your just a "jobber" and no good?

But the muffler shop said he would do it just need to mark them up.
What would happen if he accidently ruined his NOS part, what if he made a mistake with no mark up? Who pays? remember, your only paying labor so the mistake rests on you right?

MDchanic

I'm just saying that the case of a restoration with near-unobtainable NOS parts is an exception to the "no customer-supplied parts" rule. The customer HAS to supply the parts in that case, because the ones available on the commercial market don't fill the bill.
If the shop doesn't do, or doesn't want to do, restoration-grade work, that's fine, they should just say that at the outset and move on, not give a ridiculous estimate in order to turn the customer away. $600 to install some GM-bent pipes and standard mufflers is outrageous.

As for "What would happen if he accidently ruined his NOS part, what if he made a mistake with no mark up? Who pays?" the installer pays, of course, as the mistake was his. You don't build in an upcharge in order to to insulate yourself from your own incompetence - "I'm charging you even more, in case I screw up" - that's just nuts.

And, finally, you admit that you DO in fact, occasionally, install customer-provided parts under specific circumstances, so therefore you DO recognize that there is money to be made in doing so.

Nobody is criticizing your or anyone else's right to make a living or to charge an appropriate amount, but this guy's estimate was just too high. He's got a right to ask that much, but the OP has a right to b__ch about it, too.
In my own case, I just do not pay other people to do jobs for me. I have had nothing but problems the few times I've tried to, and I've learned my lesson. The only guy who will work on my stuff the way I would is me.

- Eric

DeltaPace77

We had a guy around here that did nothing but custom classic car exhaust systems, and dropped advertising fliers in all the cars at shows. Had the guy do my car in the late 90's from the headers back. Whole aluminized 3" system was $400 bucks. I didn't supply anything, but did pay cash. Was a few years ago, with only one guy and a helper in a basic shop, but maybe worth looking for a place like this.

oldolds88

if your dad was a gm worker and has a gm pension,yes you can get a discount. on any new gm vehicle.

Redog

Sorry but $1000 for exhaust is total bullshit.

I bought 2 flowmaster 44's for my Alero and had them put on. Total custom job, $150 for the labor, and $80 for each muffler. Want to really get picky, OK I paid $12 for shipping from Summit.

Complete exhaust manifold back. Summit X pipe kit $75, 2 Flowmaster super 40's $150, 2 cats, $100, 2 tips (eBay) $30, labor $150.

Total for the Delta $505

rennoc442

Didnt I already say he was Besides the point was asking for discounts at places where you dont work or where your discount doesnt apply to.

oldolds88

relax,dont throw yourself into a coma. just saying anybody who even knows a gm employee or retiree can get the discount.

rennoc442

Oh my god stop you are too funny. Where did I let on that was going into a coma??? You must be psychic. Quick which hospital am I in??!!

oldolds88

im not going to have a battle of wits with someone thats unarmed. sorry for the hijack. im done

oldcutlass

Here's my .02! Anyone who who performs a task with their wallet be prepared to shell out big bucks. You are paying for someone elses expertise! If you feel the price is too high, then take it somewhere else, or learn to do it yourself. As others mentioned sometimes you do get what you pay for.

I understand a shop up charging to install someone elses parts, or not wanting to do it at all. Someone must be responsible if things don't work. The upcharge will cover any warranty labor. Yeah I know they or you, say they can't be held responsible, but today's litigious sociaty has told us different.

z11375ss

No contribution to pension=no pension. Just remember, the Fed has taken away over 20% of your purchasing power in the last 3 years alone by their profligate printing. An annual rate of inflation of just 2% cuts your purchasing power by 1/3 over ten years. Since 1913 the dollar has lost 97% of its' value. So, those of us who are older "remember when" this or that was X price. I am sounding like my Grandfather these days. A gallon of milk is 3 bucks? No wonder the exhaust system install is expensive. These shops need to keep up with the money printing.
BTW, my exhaust guy has hung and welded 3 complete exhaust systems from the headers back for me at a rate of $150 per. They were the flowmaster kits from Summit. Easy work, otherwise they obviously would cost more to hang.

1969w3155

In 2005 I had a locally owned muffler shop replace the glasspacks in my just purchased '71 Supreme, cost $150.00. In 2006 they replaced the rest of the system with aluminized pipes that they bent from stock, cost..$275.00. In 2009 a new custom muffler shop opened just down the street that catered to Hot Rods, Muscle cars etc. I got a quote to put in two Dynomax mufflers that I had purchased, the estimate $300.00, I declined, with in a year they went out of business. Muffler shop number one still there, and still affordable.

Allan R

Well, here's something to think about. My 95 Ninety Eight Regency Elite finally needed a new exhaust 4 years ago. I took it to a shop that I trusted at the time and dropped off the car for the day. Told them I wanted a quote before they started any work, and that was written on the work order. Call me with pricing before you do anything.

Got a call around 11:00 from 'Ron'. He said the exhaust from the front cat back needed total replacement. I asked why because when I looked it all appeared to be good without any leaks. The leak I had seen and heard was from the muffler. I had been under the car doing an oil change the week before, and when I do that I also inspect the bottom of the car for any issues.

Turns out they had already taken the whole exhaust off the car and were waiting for the ok to install the new. Put the old one back in I said. Can't do that my friend was the answer, we already have the whole thing out of the car and it would cost you money to put it back in, besides we can't put in old parts. Why is it off the car when you were supposed to quote the job first, and how much were my ?? 660+shop supplies + tax was the answer. We figured you would want to do the whole thing because it just makes more sense to do it that way..... Yeah?? Well the guy who pays usually says what he can afford was my counter.


So again, tell me how the ethics of good business works here? Even when the repair order said 'quote before any work done' is right in black and white? I was stuck between a rock and a hard spot. So I told them to go ahead and install the new exhaust, but, and I emphasized I wanted to see the old one that came out. When I got off the bus to pick it up, sure it sounded nice. The old exhaust that I was assured would be 'right there for me to see' had gone to their metal recycle bin which 'had just been picked up that afternoon'.

Far as I know I got squeezed for 500+ clams that day. So now I don't trust anyone's quotes and it doesn't make it any sweeter to hear a professional installer say "Learn to do it yourself if you don't like my pricing". I will travel around and get 3 or 4 quotes first WHILE I WAIT before making a $$ decision on that. And the best service with the best price will win me over.

MDchanic

Wow, Allan! What a classic example of why you can't trust anyone to do work for you.

I would think that your local or provincial business licensing agency would have something to say about that, as it is blatantly against any consumer protection laws that exist (in places that have consumer protection laws, anyway).
Things like that are the reasons why some businesses find flammable objects thrown through their windows.

I had a similar experience last year. I had a shingle blown off the roof, with a leak. The peak of my roof is about 45' off the ground, and the roof is at a 45° angle (which means 50/50 you'll slide off of it). I tried going up there a few times, but I just couldn't do it. Finally, I found a local "handyman" guy through an internet search. This guy was in his fifties, and had good references. I asked him whether he knew of anyone who did roofing work like this, and he said he'd come by and check it out himself. I came home from work and there was a flat of shingles in the driveway. The next morning, when it was light, I looked and saw the roof had been repaired. I checked my e-mail, and there was a message from him with a .pdf file of a bill for $550.
I hit the roof (as they say), e-mailed him, and called him when I had got to work.
He said, "I just thought you'd want me to fix it right away."
As all of our communication had been via e-mail up to that point, there was no way he could deny that I had only asked him to take a look at it and give me an estimate.
Ultimately, he charged me $225, which was not unreasonable, considering the climbing and rigging he had to do, but he tried to get me for double that price.

Like I said, I don't trust any of these people to so much as turn a screw for me.

- Eric

ELY442

I had a shingle blown off the roof, with a leak. The peak of my roof is about 45' off the ground, and the roof is at a 45° angle (which means 50/50 you'll slide off of it).

2 years ago i did my shingles on my garage roof. My garage roof is 20'x20'. I had an estimate to do the whole roof, plywood, drip moldings, ice membrane, labor for a total of $10k. I seen an episode of Ask This Old House on doing roof repair. I taped that episode and did everything myself and bought all the materials from a roofing company. The whole materials cost me about $2k. It took me 9 days of my Labor Day vacation to do the job. Sure my toes and back was sore but i did the job perfectly and it looks great. Look how much money i saved by watching tv.

Rickman48

Wow - that's a $3500 job all day in Chicago, with lifetime dimensional shingles + 1/2" CDX!
[currently selling hail/wind damage]

oldcutlass

Are there lowlifes in this world, yes! But for every one horror story, there are 100 good ones. If you go through life expecting everyone is trying to rip you off, then everyone will.

Time is money, anyone performing a service is entitled to a fare return for their time. Just as you are entitled a serviceable finished product for your money. These 2 things should not be based on what the voices in your head say. I am so tired of hearing, "well shiat, I got that same job done 5, 10 or 20 years ago for !!!! Prices change!

What is considered a reasonable price to one, is exhorbitent to another. Why would you drop your car off at a reputable transmission shop, engine repair shop, brakes, etc... for them to do an estimate on something they can't really see whats wrong without taking it apart. Only for you to say, no put it back together I have to wait cause your price is too high.

For any mechanical repair, pick up the phone and ask whats my worst case scenario barring any unforeseen issues, and use that for your budget + 30%. If you can't afford to do the project at the time, don't take it to the shop. Business's are in business to make money, not to be your personal free diagnostic service.

Just because an exhaust system looks good on the outside does not mean it's good. They wear from the inside out! Exhaust systems are a skill that most people cannot do on their own, it's an art. Your price on materials can vary greatly based on the type, size, and thickness of the pipe plus the quality of the mufflers and hangers. Your price on labor can vary greatly on the type and complexity of the job, and what your expectation is for the end result.

On the roof repair how long did it take him, how many people, and what type of rigging was required. I assume it was more than one shingle. You stated finally found a handyman... Who else did you inquire with? What are you basing the price of the job is worth?

Please, sometime you people crack me up. It's a wonder how anyone can stay in business these days, with all the negativity, unrealistic expectations, etc... Not all business's are like Burger King.