jaunty75

At least according to USA Today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-now/31366901/


Excerpt:

Despite strict emissions limits, concerns about climate change and unpredictable gasoline prices that would make a '60s hot rodder pull over and weep, Detroit''s modern performance cars could run rings around the classics. And they're surprisingly affordable when compared with price tags of some exotic cars with similarly high-performing engines.

MDchanic

2015 Challenger (according to the article): $58,300.

1970 Hemi Challenger (in 2015 dollars): $27,677 ($4,500 in 1970).

The "affordability" doesn't compare.

- Eric

jaunty75

Be careful how you quote. *I* didn't say they're affordable, the article did!

MDchanic

The Quote button has no conscience.

You quoted USA Today. I quoted you.

Anybody can see where the quote was from in your post (it was not a long or complex post).

- Eric

jaunty75

Yes it does. Just highlight the text and use the plain quotation button at the top of the edit window:




That turns this:

into this:

oldcutlass

The problem not mentioned in the article is that the new cars are so hi tech, loaded with plastic parts that break, and cheaply made electrical components, that most will never last 40+ years. If I'm going to invest $40-70k, why would I invest in something that's still in the depreciating stage vs an old muscle car that's appreciating.

jaunty75

True, but I doubt this enters into the decision-making process of anyone buying one of these cars just as it didn't enter anyone's mind back when they were buying a new 442 in 1970.

People buy these new muscle cars because they want to drive them today, not 40 years from now. Most of the people who can afford a modern muscle car probably won't be alive 40 years from now.


We look at the past through rose-colored glasses. While cars of the past have lasted to today, they had their share of cheap parts, and they were not without problems, rust being one of the major ones, but we cope with these issues because we like those cars and we fix their problerms. Muscle cars (or any cars) of today certainly have their share of parts that probably won't last for generations, either, but some parts will (such as those much-disparaged plastic parts), and what doesn't last will be sought out at swap meets, on ebay, etc. just like we do now.

Stefano

We at NicKey Performance enjoy both the Old and the New generation Super Cars. While the 60s-70s Muscle Car Culture was different, there is a resurgence and the power levels are insane compared to the 'olden' days.

You can purchase cars that will run 10 sec 1/4 miles and 200 mph on top right off the showroom floor......with drag tires thrown in and the speed limiters reset.

70-442-W30

I'm converting the 442 to electric via a Tesla setup. Future proof!

The article was enlightening on the VW Golf. 350 HP. That is a car you will never want to buy used.

Bunser

And body bags will be selling like hotcakes.

Destructor

I don’t see the aftermarket supporting today’s cars except for maybe a select few. The older technology is easier for someone to step up to produce. Who will produce today’s electronics 30 years from now and the umpteen million specialized emission parts.

bw1339

20 years from now, the average muscle car is not going to be worth nearly as much as you think... Younger generations just aren't interested.

bw1339

But you can buy cars that will spank a 1970 Hemi Challenger in terms of performance for quite a bit less.

oldcutlass

While I agree based on my sons attitude currently. I see more and more young people at the Mecum auction in Dallas. I also somewhat agree with your assessment based on the Classics pricing coming down for the prewar cars. However I still believe there will be a stronger market for these cars just because they are much simpler to maintain and the dwindling supply. I doubt my Cutlass will ever reach being a financial status symbol, however I think the more sought after cars will still have a great following.

jaunty75

I think this is the biggest problem facing collectors of the future. Just as it is pretty much impossible to run programs written for 1970s and 1980s computers on today's equipment (or run 2015 software on a 1981 IBM PC) and getting parts for old computer hardware means attending electronics swap meets, visiting specialized websites, and joining collector clubs, so will getting a car from 2015 to work in 2055 require finding NOS and good used electronic hardware from the past. Just like no one makes 5.25-inch floppy disks anymore (or even the later 3.5-inchers), no one will make replacement electronic components for 40-year-old cars, and the non-functioning electronics won't be repairable or rebuildable.

MDchanic

True, but since all newer cars will handle and stop better than our forty to fifty year old cars, all of them are safer in crashes, and, pound for pound, HP for HP, and 0-60 to 0-60, all get better gas mileage, my point wasn't that you could get the same performance as an older car, but rather that you could get performance that stands out from the crowd.

Muscle cars of the sixties weren't specifically about being able to do a quarter mile in 13 seconds, they were about being as fast as you could be, or at least a darned sight faster than everyone else, and the ability to do that was affordable to the average young kid with a job, if he made it a priority. That is no longer the case. You don't see young people driving or racing these new "muscle" cars, you see "old people" driving them.

Used to be that if you were a young person who wanted to drive something "cool," you'd buy a 442 or a GTO or an SS or a Road Runner or a Triumph, or an MG, or a Boss-something, and off you'd go. If you were a bit older or a bit more successful, and serious about driving, rather than tire-squealing, you'd get a 911 ($39,500 to $53,400 in 2015 dollars) or an XKE ($53,800 for the V-12 convertible). You'll notice that the prices of these high-end cars are the equivalent of the prices referred to as "affordable" by Jaunty, er, I mean referred to in the article that Jaunty posted .

- Eric

Diego

Back in 1966, they didn't think contemporary cars would be collectible.

And look at today - 1980s cars are beginning to be collectible.

You simply can't predict the future, and pooh-pooing the future is a trap for Luddites.

MDchanic

Actually, I disagree with this.

With the power of computers increasing about every week, I anticipate the development of cheap, matchbook-sized generic platforms, with computational capacities well beyond those of today's high-end desktops, which, along with software sets, will be able to read-in the entire structure and programming of a functioning "old" car and duplicate it, and then be plugged in through appropriate adapters to replace malfunctioning older units.

Clearly, as you note, making one or another specific computer for a specific car will not be profitable, but making a generic system that can mimic "any" old car out there (and, that, of course, can then be customized), WILL be profitable, and someone will do it.

Tell you what, if they don't come out with these in 20 years, I'll buy you a beer.

- Eric

11971four4two

you turn 50
get up way 2 many times
in the night lol


i asked the guy at the dealership
about trading into new car

lol

laughing all the way
i do keep a fender ahead

legend in my own mind

bw1339

No one reproduces 1960s electronics, but you can buy modern equivalents that do the same and are far simpler and far more reliable. I bet the same will happen with today's cars.

bw1339

I think what happened is that "normal" cars are so much faster - and better in so many ways.

Jeremy Clarkson did a bit a while back in which he drag raced a modern Honda Accord against both a 1960s Jaguar E-type and an Aston Martin DB5. The Accord destroyed both of them.

tds

I have two kids - one is 31 and one is 28. Neither of them are interested in inheriting my 1967 Toronado.....at least not yet.

I think it is a generational thing. They did not grow up in the 60s, and they have no attachment to cars of the 60s.

MDchanic

I did not grow up in the 'teens, or the '20s, or the '50s, but if the Car Fairy offered to give me my great-grandfather's Model T, or my grandfather's '28 Packard or midget racer, or my father's '58 Speedster, I'd jump for them.

- Eric

RetroRanger

eh when it comes to predicting kids...i gave up, mine prefer not to ride in my modern muscle as much as my truck because it doesnt have bluetooth or line in for ipod ? (who cares LOL) but the truck does. when i pull up to school in the modern muscle tho there are few kids (7-11 y olds) who always oh and ah over the car tho.

the cutlass is different tho, there is always someone interested in it from kids to grandparents...my kid still enjoys it, i think mostly because of the attetnion it gets rather than anything else....(maybe we all gotta put bluetooth compatible devices in our old cars ?)

joe_padavano

On the other hand, in 1973, we KNEW the colonnade cars would not be collectable, and they aren't.

Look the reality is that today's cars are incredibly better at performance, mileage, and emissions. They will pretty much run for 100,000 miles without touching them other than oil changes and brakes. Affordability needs to compare purchase price of today's cars with average annual salary, not inflation-adjusted prices. I suspect that a $45K car IS more affordable today than a $5K car was in 1966. Heck, my parents paid $12,000 for their house in 1958. I paid $110,000 for my first house in 1981. That was probably more affordable for me than the 1958 house was for my parents. (OK, admittedly my parents' house was in central MA and my first house was in SoCal...)

joe_padavano

And yet, which would you rather drive? The incredible-looking 1960s cars or the rolling suppositories of today?

wr1970

You go Joe.LOL Joe in my album is my 1938 street rod truck a Dodge with the truck grill. My son was with me 30 yrs old on my way to my dad. Kids were playing what looked like a little league ball practice and was stopped when one kid jumped up and down and started pointing at us and waving.Even the couches joined in.That was proof to me cool is in not new.The whole trip we got thumbs up and honks and waves.My son was blowed away he never knew why i ride around in that old truck now and then.He sure does now.

Mspalding3

I think some of us this generation like older cars. I'm 20 and I love my Cutlass

70-442-W30

Good one. When the Russians and Chinese are hacking into and controlling the cars of today and tomorrow, the old cars will roam freely at the driver's will only.

bw1339

Don't ask me. Ask a 20 yr old.

sammy

He just told you

What I have done is try to expose my son to a VARIETY of cars. He likes the 56 Merc pu , the Olds ...but also likes the 1991 Maxima that we " need for speeded" together. What really needs to happen, is the car community allows ALL cars at shows. Sorry fellas , but welcome to the new age. It will keep all age groups interested in preserving our automotive history....

seansolds

Ouuuuccchhh!! That hurts.

rcorrigan5

Despite what happened to me, I believe the older cars will always hold their value and even increase in value over time. The volume of younger people interested in older cars might drop a bit but I believe the demand for older cars will always be there and possibly even increase.


Case in point: When my dad passed away, I inherited his beloved 1931 Ford Model A 2-door phaeton. A somewhat rare car, I always liked the looks of it but never drove it...never even sat behind the wheel in all my 64 years. Problem was, I didn't even know how to start it (open the carburetor so many turns, choke it while starting, have to turn it back once the car is started, set the spark, reset it after the car starts, a starter pedal, an accelerator pedal, mechanical brakes and the much feared clutch), much less shift it or drive it! And I wasn't interested in learning how to operate it...that car just didn't do anything for me. So, after letting it sit around for over a year, I sold it. And I got top dollar for it, too, which surprised me, because I thought most everyone would think like I was thinking. I sold it to a man who was 4 years younger than me - pretty much in my same age group - who had some disabilities but was more than willing to drive it away.


My current cars: A fully restored '68 4-4-2 convertible, a '71 Corvette, and a '69 4-4-2 convertible currently being restored. I love all those cars and I believe my son (age 34 now) will, too. Every time he comes to visit he wants to take them for a drive. My hope is that he will keep at least the '68 (my dad bought it brand new so it has a lot of family history) but, who knows? Maybe he will just want the $ like I got for the Model A so I could finish the restoration on my '69!


I marvel at the newer performance cars that can outrun, out steer and out-gas mileage the muscle and pony cars of the '60s and early '70s. It just seems phenomenal to me that these newer performance cars are coming that way from the factory. But my heart stays with the cars of the 50s, 60s and early 70s.


Randy C.

oldcutlass

A Model A is an acquired taste. Not really that complicated and I restored 1 and still working on one for a friend. They really have not changed value in 20 years and you have to find someone to really love em to sell them.

70-442-W30

I believe demand may decrease for the 60s and 70s muscle in the US. However, as the world grows and more countries gain people who can afford luxuries, I think that worldwide demand will either hold steady or slightly increase.

bw1339

I am 37 and the two Oldsmobiles I own are from 1966 and 1970. I grew up in Spain surrounded by European cars and learned to drive in a 1990 VW Golf. I like these cars, but I am a bit of an exception among my age group. I do have some friends who own old cars, but the vast majority of them have no interest in them. And this only gets worse among younger generations.


I think younger generations are less interested in cars altogether and are far less likely to work on their cars. I don't buy the "cars are more complicated now". For someone who grew up in the 1920s, my 1966 Toronado would have seemed like a rocketship. It happens in every generation. People in 50 years will look at a 2015 car as a primitive flintstone car.


As baby boomers retire/die and sell their toys, the market is going to be flooded with overpriced 60s cars for which there is no demand and prices will reflect that new reality.

Mspalding3

Growing up my father lost interest in the newer cars because of all the electronics in them. Something he always told me is that these newer cars are made with all these amenities, but they're just more things to break and in my opinion he was completely right. I could care less about having automatic windows, heated seats, or even cruise control and as our cars get more and more automated I feel that people are not actually learning how to drive and just relying on the car to do it for them...

z11375ss

I own a few old cars. You guys know this somewhat. I also own a 2011 SHO that I modified. It runs mid 12s. A good friend of mine owns a HellCat Challenger. While the new cars go like stink, they don't have a soul. The old cars rumble and shake the antenna. This appeals to me greatly. However, the older cars aren't as reliable as my Taurus so I drive that when I need dependability, like on a road trip to another state. But around town I'm daily driving a 75 Eldo convert. What a great car. I had an 03 Cobra Mustang. Sold it. While it was really fast, all I could do is wax it. Booooring!

illumined

2nded, I can't imagine driving anything other than my 80's Delta. While not a muscle car it fits my driving tendencies like a glove, plus I love the spacious interior.

oldcutlass

And it was inexpensive...