wmachine

Glenn, this is more disturbing that POCI allows it more than the unacceptable fact that it is happening to begin with!
There is nothing wrong with making a car whatever you want, but here's the one thing that is crystal clear:
There is one reason, and one reason only for changing *any* numbers on a car: FRAUD.
I find it incredulous that with the PHS records that this happens, but POCI should be ashamed of themselves.

ent72olds

x2...I did my '72 Cutlass as a "clone, tribute" whatever the term may be and even fell short of badging it as such. The numbers sit in a drawer to this day. Hey, I could tell everyone it is a 442 numerals delete option...

wmachine

Actually that is a good point to clarify. By changing numbers, I don't mean badges on the car, or air cleaners and decals and the sorts. Nothing wrong with cloning a 442.
I mean VIN, data plate, part numbers and such.

jensenracing77

X3

fraud and also totally unfair to the people who took the time to find a true car and the time of restoring one that is correct and also survivor car owners.

wolfman98

I find it strange that such a practice would be tolerated.Knowing that only so many cars were produced with particular options to change the Fisher plate would be like fraud especially if down the road the car is sold to an unwary buyer who is thinking they are getting a factory original.

ent72olds

And counterfitting money is a federal offense.....

rocketraider

POCI is a very different organization than it was even five years ago. I still love my big 60s Pontiacs as much as my big 60s Oldsmobiles, but the historian in me cannot support things like this. When my POCI renewal came up, I spelled out exactly why I wouldn't renew. Never got so much as an acknowledgement.

Even AACA has always allowed a color/trim change for their judging purposes as long as it was an available color for the year, and I have no issue with someone changing a car for personal preference. It's when someone alters a car's provenance and tries to pass it off as genuine and documented that I get red around the gills- esp if it's obvious it was done for financial reasons.

This is why there are more Hemi MoPars and COPO Chevrolets around now than the factory built. There's a "Yenko" Nova running around here that is almost assured is not genuine, but it's for sale at $90k- and the guy can't produce a scrap of documentation. Now here comes a major marque club allowing forged body plates and opening the door for all grades of fake cars to flood the market.

Then again a lot of people have no scruples or ethics.

wolfman98

This may be a dumb question but who makes these "fake" fisher body plates? Is there any way to tell the difference from original plate?

agtw31

i used to see them all the time on ebay

most of them are sold to COPO Camaro and BBC Vette cloners.

wmachine

At least in the case of Pontiacs, a knowledgeable potential buyer can verify the authenticity with PHS.
Not only have these unethical people altered cars for their own personal gain, they are ruining the true pedigree of the cars and are contributing to pollution of frauds in the pool of collector cars. They are are a disgrace to the hobby, and a poor excuse for a person too.
I share your outrage.