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Tailgate and side window help on a 71 Custom Cruiser
Hey gang, I'm hoping you can help this electrical novice sort out the problem with the windows and tailgate on my 71 clamshell wagon.
Issue #1: the power windows do not work at all. They do not work from the drivers master switches or from the individual window switches. I will hear what I'm lead to believe is a relay pop whenever first try them from the drivers switches, but that usually only happens the first time I try hitting the switches. I am unsure of the relay location for the windows if in fact it is a bad relay.
I will say that I have checked the fuses and they all seen to be good. I did notice that there is currently no accessory light fuse in place. Not sure if that makes a difference, but I'm just wanting to be add thorough as possible for all you gurus!
Issue #2: My tailgate window only works from the rear key lock switch, it does not respond to the dash switch. My tailgate does not respond to the rear switch or the dash switch.
I've included a picture of the ol gal, because who doesn't live pictures?!
Bob, have the power windows ever worked? I don't know of a relay in the power window circuit. Then again, I've never had to troubleshoot the windows in my 71 98.
If your tailgate window works from the lock switch but not the rear or dash switch then first make sure your rear and dash switches are good.
Bob, have the power windows ever worked? I don't know of a relay in the power window circuit. Then again, I've never had to troubleshoot the windows in my 71 98.
If your tailgate window works from the lock switch but not the rear or dash switch then first make sure your rear and dash switches are good.
I bought the car with the power windows not working. The previous owner (who's had the car since 73) mentioned that it was in the last couple years that they stopped working due to what he called a "bad relay"...whether his diagnosis means anything is another story, but it's all I have to go off of. Without having had the time to tear stuff apart and check power to switches, connections, and grounds, I don't have answers yet. I do know that I hear an electrical "popping" noise coming from the drivers side firewall when I use any of the window buttons from the drivers door which makes me hope that at least the switches are good.
As far as the tailgate is concerned, I'll probably just have to go through and disassemble and clean everything to really get a sense of what's faulty.
I do know that I hear an electrical "popping" noise coming from the drivers side firewall when I use any of the window buttons from the drivers door which makes me hope that at least the switches are good.
Perhaps the 12V is shorting to ground whenever the switch is activated. Unfortunately, it would definitely require disassembly of the door panels and maybe the dash to do some troubleshooting with a multi meter. I've had the door panels off too many times in my 98. It's not difficult, just a PITA!
As far as the tailgate is concerned, I'll probably just have to go through and disassemble and clean everything to really get a sense of what's faulty.
I owned a '73 CC from 2010 until selling it a couple of years ago, and I had issues with the tailgate when I first got it as well. The window worked fine from both switches, but the tailgate didn't work all.
First, make sure you're following the instructions in the owner's manual regarding operation of the tailgate from the dash switch. Each GM division was different about this, for some reason, and all of this is outlined in the Fisher Body manual, which you should definitely get if you don't have one. I don't have mine in front of me, but in some cases, the dash switch only works if the engine is running (key not in the ACC position) and the car is in Park. For other divisions, the tailgate would work as long as the key is ON or as long as the key is in the ACC position.
If your tailgate doesn't operate at all, the problem might not be a switch or electrical problem at all, but rather a bad motor. The motor is easy to get at. Just remove the trim panel on the left side of the car in the rear (opposite the spare tire cover). Three bolts hold the motor in place, but be careful when removing it because the tailgate might fall suddenly into the down position.
In my case, the problem was not the motor. I took it out and put 12V to it, and it moved just fine. The problem turned out to be a loose key switch on the rear of the car. The key switch is kind of a pain to get at as you have to reach around into the space to the right of the tailgate after removing the spare tire. The switch is held in place by a U-shaped clip that you push sideways to remove. In my car, this clip was not present (it was apparently removed when the car had been repainted by the prior owner and never properly reinstalled), and the switch was being held in place only by the stiffness of the wiring connected to it, which wasn't enough. The key didn't engage the switch properly, so it never engaged the part of the switch that controlled the tailgate. (I was able to control the window from the rear key switch without a problem). Once I put a clip on and the switch was held properly in place, everything suddenly started working fine.
You never know where the solution will be in problems like this. The first assumption is always that it is an electrical problem, but it might not be, as was the case for me.
Here's what is says in the '73 Fisher Body manual regarding operation of the tailgate from the dash switch.
On Chevrolet styles, the power tail gate can be operated by the instrument panel switch provided the ignition switch is in RUN and the transmission is in PARK.
On Pontiac and Buick styles, identical to Chevy except that it can also be operated with the transmission in Neutral as well as Park.
On Oldsmobile styles, the tail gate can operated by instrument panel switch only if the ignition switch is in RUN but the engine is off.
For Oldsmobile, that's kind of an odd way of doing it because most people would assume the tailgate could be operated with the engine running. But this is something for the OP to check. I don't know that '71 was the same as '73, but it can't hurt to try. Put the key in the ON position (not ACC), but don't start the car, and see if the dash switch works the tailgate.
Also, here's the diagram from the '74 Fisher Body manual showing how the rear key switch is attached. It was identical for '73, and I'm guessing it was the same for all years of the clamshells.
In my case, item 3, the switch-to-cylinder retaining clip, was missing, so, as I said, only the wiring harness, which was stiff, was holding the switch to the the cylinder. I didn't have a clip, so I fashioned one out of a coat hanger. (Somebody should write a book about all of the problems that have been solved with a coat hanger.)
Here's what is says in the '73 Fisher Body manual regarding operation of the tailgate from the dash switch.
On Chevrolet styles, the power tail gate can be operated by the instrument panel switch provided the ignition switch is in RUN and the transmission is in PARK.
On Pontiac and Buick styles, identical to Chevy except that it can also be operated with the transmission in Neutral as well as Park.
On Oldsmobile styles, the tail gate can operated by instrument panel switch only if the ignition switch is in RUN but the engine is off.
For Oldsmobile, that's kind of an odd way of doing it because most people would assume the tailgate could be operated with the engine running. But this is something for the OP to check. I don't know that '71 was the same as '73, but it can't hurt to try. Put the key in the ON position (not ACC), but don't start the car, and see if the dash switch works the tailgate.
Also, here's the diagram from the '74 Fisher Body manual showing how the rear key switch is attached. It was identical for '73, and I'm guessing it was the same for all years of the clamshells.
In my case, item 3, the switch-to-cylinder retaining clip, was missing, so, as I said, only the wiring harness, which was stiff, was holding the switch to the the cylinder. I didn't have a clip, so I fashioned one out of a coat hanger. (Somebody should write a book about all of the problems that have been solved with a coat hanger.)
Jaunty, thank you so much for all of this fantastic insight! Helpful tips from a clamshell owner is exactly what I've been looking for. The previous owner, who owned my wagon since 1973 was very helpful and insightful, as the wagon was his baby and he wanted to make sure I was as educated on all her quirks as possible. But he had no specifics on the tailgate...he just remembers that one day it just stopped working and who knows how long ago that was.
Once it gets warmer I'll be able to dig into the ol gal a bit more. I did get myself a Fisher body manual, and I'm glad to have it because it seems like it will be very helpful! Your old wagon is gorgeous!
Perhaps the 12V is shorting to ground whenever the switch is activated. Unfortunately, it would definitely require disassembly of the door panels and maybe the dash to do some troubleshooting with a multi meter. I've had the door panels off too many times in my 98. It's not difficult, just a PITA!
You're absolutely right, and there may well be that door-by-door dissection in my future! Luckily the lower panels on my custom cruiser are the more basic moulded plastic type, rather than the moulded foam covered in the heat-set vinyl deluxe lower panels like on our 98's...which should make them slightly easier and less involved to take off.
The power window relay should be behind the driver side kick panel, kinda up behind the dash. You may have to drop the lower dash to get to it. Chassis manual strongly recommended.
You may also find a circuit breaker underhood for the PW/PDL circuit. Can't remember for sure if 71 has it on fuse box or firewall.
The power window relay should be behind the driver side kick panel, kinda up behind the dash. You may have to drop the lower dash to get to it. Chassis manual strongly recommended.
You may also find a circuit breaker underhood for the PW/PDL circuit. Can't remember for sure if 71 has it on fuse box or firewall.
Thank you Rocketraider! I will look there and consult my newly acquired 1971 Fisher Chassis Manual as well!
February 18th, 2017, 05:06 PM
