Jolly Green

So I guess I'm the idiot!
1) GEN light stays on all the time when running (Have an int regulated alternator. The white and blue wires from harness are not hooked up. Brown wire is hooked up to Alternator. Battery does charge, belt does slip a tiny bit)
2) HOT light stays on all the time when running (no clue where the engine temp switch is on a 455)
3) BRAKE light stays on when in park (no emer brake set because cable is broken.

Ideas to fix or just get out of sight?

joe_padavano

Was this a conversion from an external reg?

Same place as on all Olds V8s. In the water crossover at the front of the intake.

Is the ebrake pedal there and pulled all the way up? If not, the ebrake switch will cause the light to come on.

I'm thinking that studying the wiring diagram in the CSM might be a place to start.

Jolly Green

1) Yes its a conversion from an externally reg alternator. The conv was done before I bought the car.
2)Thanks
3)The pedal should be all the way up but I will check.
I got the wiring diagram but it confuses the hell out of me, haha. I was an aerospace eng, not a EE. I guess my biggest problem is know where the switches are in the diagram in relation to where they are in the car. I.E. where the ebrake switch is located.

Lady72nRob71

The ebrake switch is at the very back of the ebrake assy under the dash. It is a flimsy plunger looking thingy with a brown wire going to it (brown in 72 at least)... I circled it in green on the first picture from my '72...
Plunger should be pushed down all the way by the pedal lever to unground the circuit and turn off the brake light on the dash.

Temp light switch is shown in the second picture, circled in green. Pop the terminal off and the light should go out. If not, let me know...
(Dont forget this light is supposed to come on during engine cranking for the purpose of testing the bulb. If all other tests fail, the ignition switch could be suspect.)

stellar

Does the idiot lite come on when you turn on the key to the run position and the car is not yet started and running? Is the battery going dead after it has been run or is it charging with the lite on?

J-(Chicago)

I used Electrical tape lol.
A swift screwdriver stabbing through the cover plate also works.

stellar

Check fuses guage-trans

Scotty B

I too have the "GEN" light on in my 72 442/455, but I was told it has an alternator and the GEN light is left over from when they had generators. I have no clue what the diff is, but the little light stays on regardless.

Lady72nRob71

True... Your car does have an alternator, but the word GEN (generator) meant more to most folks then because cars had generators for so many years... They changed the wording over mid 70s to ALT... My 78 Ford's light says ALT.
Now days it is just a goofy picture of a battery (from what I have seen.) So when this comes on, people go to walmart for an new battery and wonder why it died the next day...

An alternator produces AC (alternating current) and the generator produced DC (direct current). Even though an alternator requires rectifier diodes to change AC to DC, it was smaller, more efficient, and more powerful than generators.
Ever had one of those bike light generators that ran off your back tire?
Remember how much harder it was to pedal? That extra effort was only to produce about 2 amps at 6 volts...

stellar

Scotty if your lite is on you have a problem. Delco originally called their alternator by the name delcotron AC generator, thus retaining the gen lite. Or so they say. The early alternators, in use before mass auto production runs were true ac generators with the rectifiers mounted where they could get a lot of air for cooling. They used selenium rectifiers and were quite large. Most applications for these were taxi police and ambulance.

Scotty B

OK, so how do you troubleshoot a alternator light staying on? I suppose swapping the alternator is the easy fix, but what else can I do to isolate the problem?
Thanks

joe_padavano

The No. 1 wire from the alternator should have +12V when the alternator is turning and ground when it is not. This terminal needs to run directly to the GEN light in the dash. When converting from external to internal regulator, you need to jumper the wires in the connector that went to the external regulator. The brown wire in this diagram should run to the GEN light.

Jolly Green

Here's what I gathered from Joe's diagram (Thanks Joe!). Hope this is right in the pic. I can't trust the colors from the alternator cause this kid must have been color blind. Sooooo, what goes where?
In the second pic, I appear to have two temp switches? If I need to run the wire, where would I find that wire? haha. Coming out of the Alternator and Front Extension Connector right? Dark Green? Should I just buy a new switch?
In the third pic I have the connector for the left parking light. The wires had rotted off the other half of the connector. Do they reproduce these connectors or should I just splice the wires into a hard wire?

Thanks for the pic of the ebrake plunger Rob! I'm gonna dig into that tomorrow.

csstrux

Looks like a bit of cobblemax goin on down dere

Lady72nRob71

Is this on your '68? If so is that the original intake? It looks like a later model intake since it has two temp switch bungs. The closer one is for a mechanical temp gauge. The second one looks unused and it KINDA looks like a temperature switch. If you want your idiot temp light to work, you might go to the local parts place and pick up a temperature switch to screw in that second bung.

Now why the temp light is on is a mystery. Can you find a green wire in that wire mess? It may be hooked to something it should be...

I see a blue and green wire at the bottom left of your first picture... Might those be the oil and temp sender wires? Can you get a picture of those??

Is this the factory wire harness?

What do you mean my the wires rotting off? Did the metal wires break off? If so, then the metal terminals can be removed from the plastic, cleaned up with a dremel, even uncrimped, and the wires resoldered on. Junk yards would be the best place to find those connectors, although Rockauto has been known to sell some. Check them out.

joe_padavano

The wiring in the photo should work. The white wire that is spliced to the brown wire does run to the no. 1 terminal, and the red wire that goes to the threaded post is an acceptable (if not factory) way to route the wire. This is how they make "one wire" alternators, they run this wire internally and leave off the wire to the no. 1 terminal. You may disconnect the connector from the alternator and with the key turned to RUN, connect a fused jumper from +12v to the white wire in the connector. The light should go off. If not, you have a problem in that white/brown wire between the connector and the instrument panel.

Is that an aftermarket aluminum intake? It appears that neither is the correct temp switch. One is obviously connected to a mechanical temp gauge and the other also looks like it was a mechanical sender that had the tube broken off. You'll need to get the correct electrical sender and install it in one of those two holes. Yes, should be a dark green wire that goes to the light.

Yes, these connectors and the correct terminals are reproduced (actually, they are still produced). The generic type is called Packard 56. You can search on that and you'll find they are sold by the usual wire harness vendors (American Autowire, Ron Francis, etc) as well as by bulk companies such as Waytek Wire. I usually just grab a handful every time I make a junque yard run. The vendors I noted sell the male and female terminals as well. You can remove the terminals from the plastic housing by depressing a small locking tab on the terminal itself. You need to use a small jeweler's screwdriver or a paper clip. If you look in the mating end of the connector, you will see that the terminal cavity usually has a small side opening. The lock tab is in there.

Jolly Green

Ok, did some wirechasing and found a few things.

Rob, yes this is my 68 442. The wiring harness I THINK is factory. Though, I believe the previous owner tried to use a universal wiring harness under the dash to power his "cool sound system". (I've already pulled out over 30 yards of speaker/amplifier wiring) So I think that's the reason for all the extra wiring under the hood.

And you're right Rob, the lowest sensor ended up being the temperature GAUGE for under the dash. I'll hit the store and get a new temp switch and figure out where that wire is running to.

Found the plunger for the BRAKE light. Apparently when I turn the car on the BRAKE light goes out. Doh! But then if the plunger is or is NOT depressed the light does not come on. And there is no power to the wire so that's another fight. Not sure where to figure that one out.

As for the parking light, after about 24" of electrical tape, 18" of wire splices, and jerry-rigging the old connector, it appears to work now as a "for now" fix. Joe, thanks again for the advice, I'm gonna order some new connectors ASAP.

Also gonna try and set the wires up as you said for the Alternator to get that light out. Will it still work as required?

I've attached a pic of what I believe is the Alt and Front Ext harness. It seems kinda odd that the green wire goes to a ground on the fender. Oh and I tried to unscrew the old temp switch (7/8" bolt) and its rounding out. Any ideas guys? I took the top piece (16mm?) out and it looked nothing like what the switches at Autozone looked like and water started pumping out.

Jolly Green

I found the Packard 56's at Waytek. So I need 2 Contact Body for Male Terminal, and 2 Contact body for female, correct? Then I just wire the two power wires from the harness into one clip on the female?

Where is the safety and backup light switch located? In the console? I have a TH400 with shifter on the floor.

What is a Differential Brake Switch?

joe_padavano

Yes, the neutral safety switch/backup light switch is inside the console, bolted to the shifter. Purple wires are NSS, green wires are backup lights.

The differential brake switch is a plunger switch in the brake distribution block that's bolted to the frame below the master cylinder. Look for a single brown or tan wire going into it. This switch is designed to illuminate the BRAKE light on the dash if you loose pressure in one side of the brake system hydraulics. It comes on about the same time that you say "Oh $heeet" when you step on the brakes and nothing happens.

Jolly Green

Ok, a few new issues. Mainly with the backup lights.

Found the backup NSS switch. Bulbs checked good, left socket is grounded hard, right socket is measuring no resistance. The left side of the dir sig & backup fuse has 12V, the other side of the fuse doesn't register any power.

Which wire supplies power to the backup switch? Green/white or green?

How do I check the switch to make sure its good? I measured resistance between the prongs and got an open circuit in every shift position. Could the switch be one of the culprits? I see from the diagram that each bulb is grounded and in parallel so no one bulb burns the other is off sort of deal. So the green wire to the lights has to have power right? So the left socket is registering 40 ohms (200 ohm setting) when the positive lead is touching the inside prong and the negative lead is on a chassis bolt. The right sockets measures 0.4 ohms. So the left socket is messed up, correct? and the right is grounded right? And if so, how do I fix the left socket? How do I remove a socket?

Lady72nRob71

This sounds right... When the e-brake switch plunger is depressed, ground side of circuit is broken, light should go out and 12V should be present on that brown wire (assuming 68's work like 72's...).

When the plunger is NOT depressed, (pedal pushed down) the ground side of the light circuit is made, the voltage at that brown wire goes close to 0V and the light comes on.

If this works as it should and the light still comes on, pull the wire from the proportioning valve and see what happens...

Let me know if you can order these okay. You will need the bodies AND the metal terminals. I tried to buy some long ago and I could easily order 10 bodies but had to buy a REEL minimum of 3000 terminals... I hit the local junk yard...

I found crap like this in my car, too, along with the power antenna relay running the cig lighter. I smoked that when i pushed the lighter in going 65 and scared the living crap out of me...
Stuff like this is what causes so many car fires...

I am ALMOST thinking THAT is your temp light wire, with the blue oil sender wire hacked off right below it. The blue crimp connector on the green wire is not factory...
Disconnect that green wire and turn on the ignition (not the engine) and see if your temp light goes out. If it goes out, it needs to go to your temp switch in the block.

Use a line wrench or a socket. You may have to pound them on now or file the edges square again. This might have been a switch in an adapter or something since this is not the original intake. I fthis is the case, you may still need that adapter in there.

Lady72nRob71

I believe the metal terminals (most importany parts) are sold separately. Hope you do not have to get a reel of 1000 or something like that...

Lady72nRob71

Measuring from what to what?

If you are measuring from chassis ground on bot of these, it means your fuse is blown! But why??

The green / white. The plain green go right to the bulbs.

You are measuring correctly and yes, the switch could be a problem. Just make sure your meter probes were making good contact on the terminals. Sometimes aligator clips are needed...
If there was a short in the sockets, the switch could have easily been damaged also. Rockauto may have these, too.

Yep and yep!

So this is with the shift lever in PARK and no BU bulbs installed?
If so, then there is a problem in one or both sockets, as you should read an open if I am following you right. The sockets usually get rust and crap int hem and they short out (hense your blown fuse.) You MIGHT be able to pushe the wire in and carefully eject the socket innards into the housing to check it and clean it up. I do NOT know how those sockets come off; I thought I heard they were brazed onto the housings...
Hope this helps some...

Jolly Green

Measuring from a screw that I found as a good ground, to the socket.


My fuse box is divided into two columns of fuses. Pretty standard right? The right column(with backup lights) has no power. Help!

Yes this was with PARK and no bulbs installed.

The HOT light is only on when the engine is running. Should I still disconnect that green wire and see what happens?
Where is the oil sender switch?

EBrake: I am not getting any voltage thru the tan/white wire at all. In any key position.

Lady72nRob71

What a mess...

It sounds as if the PO did not have a clue at what he did when 'rewiring' this car. What else works on this car?? Turn signals, heater fan, stop lights? These would be clues.

The right bank of fuses should all be switched, eirther at RUN or ACC key positions. (keep in mind i only have a 72 schematic available).

It almost sounds as if your backup lights are no longer in parallel...
I still think where may be a short in a socket there.

Still disconnect that green wire the start it up - I never seen a green ground wire on a car.

You have no more oil switch; it USED to be where the plastic gauge tubing runs to righ behind and above the water pump.

Disconnect the brake light wire at the proportioning valve (front left frame member under the car). That wire has the same electical function as the e-brake switch wire.

Has someone replaced the ignition switch in this car before, can you tell??
Something is definetely wrong here...