Hei conversion problems
August 24th, 2014, 12:05 PM
#1
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Hei conversion problems
Hello all. I'm new to the board but been lurking for awhile. I have an issue I hope u can help me with. I have a 74 olds vert 455 and it came with points. Converted to hei and I ran the battery wire from distributor to ignition wire/plug in the fuse box. Ok the Problem is it will start but when starting, as long as I hold the key to start and it is spinning over she won't start until I release the key. Hope I'm making sense. When I turn key to spin engine over it just keeps spinning until I release/get off the switch. car runs fine after I startsby trying to fix this issue. Please help. I have read numorous post to no avail. The dizzy is new and I bought it from summit. Pro form brand. I'm very mechanically incline. Have work on cArs and built engines and have a 68 Camaro I'm building now but this has me stumped.
Thanks
Sedric
Thanks
Sedric
August 24th, 2014, 12:23 PM
#2
same but different
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Missouri
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Did you confirm you have 12V in both start and run positions with that terminal you selected? Sounds like its only hot in run, not start.
You could try a temporary hot wire right to the battery from the HEI to confirm, maybe there is some other issue.
You could try a temporary hot wire right to the battery from the HEI to confirm, maybe there is some other issue.
August 24th, 2014, 12:33 PM
#3
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I confirmed with battery and it starts up fine if I ran straight to battery. I thought that the ignition wire would be 12 volts during start and run but I could be wrong. I was reading older post and this is what a lot of people were doing with no problems. Other than tearing the harness apart to chase down the old pints wire what else can I do because it would like u are right.
Sedric
Sedric
August 24th, 2014, 02:06 PM
#4
same but different
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Missouri
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You don't want to use the old points wire. It won't supply 12v only 9v or so.
If your wiring skills are up to it, you could simply splice into the wiring in the steering column. I'm not up on the 74 models, but you are looking for a 10guage wire probably pink in color. Check for 12v in run and start positions and add in line fuse for safety, probably 10amp fuse is more than fine.
If your wiring skills are up to it, you could simply splice into the wiring in the steering column. I'm not up on the 74 models, but you are looking for a 10guage wire probably pink in color. Check for 12v in run and start positions and add in line fuse for safety, probably 10amp fuse is more than fine.
August 24th, 2014, 02:25 PM
#5
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Location: elkhart indiana
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the spot you are using only has 12 volts in the run position, you will need to find 12 volts in the start and run or you can use, the yellow w/ black stripe wire and splice that into your connector. the picture is of the connector from a brand new harness I got from American autowire and had them convert it to HEI. the wire gives you 12 volts when the key is in the start position and the pink is 12 volts run
August 24th, 2014, 03:05 PM
#7
Old(s) Fart
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 47,467
There should have been two wires to the original coil. One (usually yellow) provides +12V in the START position. The other (usually black with pink or orange stripe) is the resistor wire that provides about +9V in the RUN position. With the design of the ignition switch in your car, you need both wires connected to the HEI.
I am puzzled by people who feel they must run a new wire for their HEI. Simply cut the resistor wire at the firewall connector and splice in a new piece of copper wire instead. Now connect both this new wire and the yellow wire to a terminal that plugs into the HEI BATT terminal. That's all it takes. I've seen all kinds of goofball connections (the P.O. of my Vista has a relay in there.
). Why make it harder than it needs to be?
I am puzzled by people who feel they must run a new wire for their HEI. Simply cut the resistor wire at the firewall connector and splice in a new piece of copper wire instead. Now connect both this new wire and the yellow wire to a terminal that plugs into the HEI BATT terminal. That's all it takes. I've seen all kinds of goofball connections (the P.O. of my Vista has a relay in there.
). Why make it harder than it needs to be?
August 24th, 2014, 05:07 PM
#8
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Ok Joe. I'll try this in little while and see how it works out. Thanks again go everyone's help. My next project is to help my brother with a 66 Olds 98. Car is in good shape minus the original mother. Got a lead on a 66 star fire for the engine to rebuild and parts.
Sedric
Sedric
August 25th, 2014, 08:47 PM
#9
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Hey joe. Are these the two wire u are referring to. If so when I use these two, my generator light comes on and alternator won't charge. Took alternator to two stores and they said it was good. Ran wire back to ignition wire in fuse block( will not turn off from this wire) my generator light goes out. Also blew a few fuses to windows and trunk latch in glove box.
Sedric
Sedric
August 25th, 2014, 08:49 PM
#10
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Sorry guys, I mis stated in my last post about the ignition wire in fuse block. It will turn off from this location but doesn't have 12 volts during start. Only has 12 v during run. Hope I'm not confusing everyone.
Sedric
Sedric
August 25th, 2014, 09:55 PM
#11
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Location: elkhart indiana
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Find the connector that went to the old coil, it should have two wires it. One wire is a resistance wire and one wire is 12 volts that is hot only in start.I don't know the color of the wire on my 66 it is yellow with a black stripe. Add that wire to the other wire from the fuse block to the Batt terminal on the new distributor and you will have 12 volts in the run and start position.
If you can post a picture of the wiring you had going to the old coil.
If you can post a picture of the wiring you had going to the old coil.
August 26th, 2014, 03:57 AM
#12
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
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Okay, let's start this from scratch:
You have an ignition switch with a heavy pink wire that feeds the ignition (coil, HEI, whatever), and a heavy purple wire that feeds the starter.
The pink wire goes through the firewall connector and connects to the resistor wire, which goes to the coil.
The purple wire goes through the neutral safety switch to the starter solenoid, where it energizes the solenoid, causing it to pull in and close the switch that connects the starter and makes it turn. At the same time, it pushes the starter gear into the flexplate, and it energizes the yellow wire, which also goes to the coil, thus providing a direct 12V to the coil while cranking, to supplement the 9v (or maybe 6v while cranking) provided by the resistor wire.
In early to mid sixties cars, the ignition switch does not energize the ignition while cranking, and relies on the yellow wire to energize the coil when cranking, but this is NOT the case in cars '68 (or was it '69?) and later.
In your '74, the ignition switch should energize the coil through the pink wire in BOTH RUN and START.
If it does not, your ignition switch is shot.
The yellow wire is a good idea, and may help with very hot or very cold starts, but should not be essential in your car with HEI installed.
- Eric
You have an ignition switch with a heavy pink wire that feeds the ignition (coil, HEI, whatever), and a heavy purple wire that feeds the starter.
The pink wire goes through the firewall connector and connects to the resistor wire, which goes to the coil.
The purple wire goes through the neutral safety switch to the starter solenoid, where it energizes the solenoid, causing it to pull in and close the switch that connects the starter and makes it turn. At the same time, it pushes the starter gear into the flexplate, and it energizes the yellow wire, which also goes to the coil, thus providing a direct 12V to the coil while cranking, to supplement the 9v (or maybe 6v while cranking) provided by the resistor wire.
In early to mid sixties cars, the ignition switch does not energize the ignition while cranking, and relies on the yellow wire to energize the coil when cranking, but this is NOT the case in cars '68 (or was it '69?) and later.
In your '74, the ignition switch should energize the coil through the pink wire in BOTH RUN and START.
If it does not, your ignition switch is shot.
The yellow wire is a good idea, and may help with very hot or very cold starts, but should not be essential in your car with HEI installed.
- Eric
August 26th, 2014, 06:07 AM
#13
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Location: Poteau, Ok
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It has points Eric, therefore some sort of resistance circuit to the coil while in the run position providing a lesser voltage so as not to over heat the coil.. There should be some sort of a bypass circuit during start that provides full battery voltage to the coil, as you stated from the starter.
August 26th, 2014, 07:04 AM
#14
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
He has points? Oh.
Must've missed that. Too early in the morning.
So, to re-clarify:
Points are powered through pink wire to resistor wire, at about 9v running. This may go down to 6v while cranking, which may or may not be enough to make a good spark and start the car. (In my own experience, when I did the experiment, it would start it cold, ie: 60-70°F, but not hot, ie: 220°F).
The yellow wire from the R terminal of the starter solenoid brings current to the coil while cranking, and with a points system, definitely DOES help the car start better.
So, it is definitely possible that this problem could be caused by the lack of a yellow wire, but I would recommend connecting a voltmeter or a test light to the (+) coil terminal to make sure that you DO have voltage there while cranking (even if only 6v) - if you don't, the problem is your ignition switch.
- Eric
Must've missed that. Too early in the morning.
So, to re-clarify:
Points are powered through pink wire to resistor wire, at about 9v running. This may go down to 6v while cranking, which may or may not be enough to make a good spark and start the car. (In my own experience, when I did the experiment, it would start it cold, ie: 60-70°F, but not hot, ie: 220°F).
The yellow wire from the R terminal of the starter solenoid brings current to the coil while cranking, and with a points system, definitely DOES help the car start better.
So, it is definitely possible that this problem could be caused by the lack of a yellow wire, but I would recommend connecting a voltmeter or a test light to the (+) coil terminal to make sure that you DO have voltage there while cranking (even if only 6v) - if you don't, the problem is your ignition switch.
- Eric
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