1970cs

Not mine! Seems like a very good price, if were not being lied to.
http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/3565813273.html

Pat

MDchanic

Looks pretty nice.

- Eric

jaunty75

I like how says it's the "only one in the city." Does the fact that it's the only one in Toledo, Ohio (and how does he know this, anyway?) automatically make it rare overall? I really don't think so.

I mean, it's rare overall because it's an old car. It's not particularly rare because it's the only one in Toledo. Of course, another question is, does his boundary include only the city of Toledo itself, or does it include the suburbs as well?

MDchanic

He is revealing his world view, Jaunty - like so many millions of other souls, he has never experienced anything outside the boundaries of that beating heart of culture and commerce, Toledo, Ohio, so, for him, this is as good as it gets.



- Eric

jaunty75

How very true. He may also think that, because he's listed it on the Toledo craigslist, only Toledoans will see the ad, and they will actually care about its rarity in their fair city.

Allan R

A nice 73 Royale, but it would be nice to see some proof of 37,000 actual miles. Too many of the 'now' generation don't realize the odometer has only 5 placeholders in 'the oldschool' tradition. Wonder if he knows leather wasn't an option for interior or roof. Try naughahyde and vinyl. Looks like Wedgewood Blue, which I've always liked as a color.

MDchanic

Yeah, that color pretty much kicks a__.

And that from a guy with a pink car !

- Eric

jaunty75

A good point, but I've always wondered what, exactly, constitutes "proof" of something like this? The only real verification, I would think, is a close, in-person inspection of the car's mechanical components to see (A) if many of them are actually original, like perhaps the original exhaust system, original brake pads, original radiator hoses, etc., and, (B) if the amount of wear on the mechanical components is consistent with this mileage level. I would think this would be difficult to demonstrate in an ad.

Allan R

As we know, most folks who claim actual miles isn't worth anything. I'm not sure I'd go with just a close inspection of mechanical parts either although in some cases that's incredibly valid. Wear and tear aren't always consistent depending on the owner or how/where it was stored. The only thing that would be consistent would be documented service records show dates/mileages of work done, or licensing on successive titles. Yes, that would be difficult to show in an ad, but could be included in the text as a selling point with some photos as proof.

jaunty75

Yes, but what's to stop someone from only displaying the service records up through the car's claimed mileage?

As far as old titles, it's very unlikely that any car owner has access to, let alone actual copies of, the titles or any registration records from previous owners. People usually have the current title for their car and that's it. They certainly know the previous owner as they know who they bought it from and when. But that doesn't mean they know or can find out who the owners were before that let alone get copies of any ownership paperwork.


To my mind, the bottom line is, it is really difficult to "document" that a car really is any claimed mileage. Odometers can be tampered with, and we all know the limitations of the 5-digit odometer. I've seen 150,000 mile cars that look like they rolled off the showroom floor yesterday, and I've seen 50,000 mile cars that look like they've been to the moon and back.

Allan R

Nothing at all - point taken. But the date on the service record would be a better indicator of what to look for in comparisons of your mechanical and sight inspections for wear and tear. I guess it also helps to have a reputable seller who knows the car's history at a grass roots level and represents it honestly. Lately I think there are folks who don't know that word exists.

Yes, even new cars aren't exempt from speedo rollbacks. Digital dashes were supposed to be tamper proof. I found out that's just not true. However, not everyone knows the limitations of 5 digit dashes. I've seen older cars represented to include the '1/10' of a mile increment as 'miles'....and others that were likely 200+K cars as 'original 05000K survivor'.

Well mine is only 120K but it sounds like you've seen it.... Comes down to pride of ownership

jaunty75

Yes, it was your car I was using as an example!

Rocketbrian

Has anyone ever discussed what an actual mile is? When one says the car has 80,000 actual miles, what would 80,000 unactual miles be?
Perhaps as the odometer only shows 99,999 miles and it hasn't flipped over yet, the first go around would be actual mileage. I believe the whole term is redundant if you say it has a 120,000 miles and it is showing 20,000. It may be described as 120,000 actual miles or 20,000 unactual miles.
Or perhaps it has evolved over time and it means absolutely nothing.
I'm curious as to your thoughts where this came from or what it means.

Rocketbrian

It just came to me that it may mean this is the actual mileage as shown and that the speedometer wasn't disconnected. Ha, that must be it. It is a term thrown around alot though.

Allan R

Brian - a fascinating revelation watching you post a question and then answer it yourself. You always give me something interesting to read.

Actual mileage vs unactual mileage... Is unactual another term for fake or otherwise?? Never heard that term. Anyway, I believe the term 'actual' mileage is intended to represent the amount of miles the car has actually driven and assumes the speedo cable/trans cable was always working and had the proper adapter head.

Just for giggles, lets say the speedo head was the wrong one. You could then end up with 'over/under' on the odometer if you're following this. Another idiosyncracy of these older speedos - if you drive backwards not only does the speedometer needle NOT register, but the odometer starts to roll backwards - deleting mileage that should actually be 'added' like modern cars do. Sure it doesn't sound like much but figure the average car backs up at least 100 ft a day from driveways, parking stalls etc. Could even be more than that. Multiply that by 365 (most of us love to drive and the car rarely gets a day off). Then multiply by the number of years the car is in service. I know this is a fictitious theory but if it was all things even that would work out to around 280 'unactual' miles not recorded for an older model car??

I don't think the term is redundant - it's intended to represent a real number associated with what kind of mtce and care should be attributed to the car. Let's say the odometer reads 80K as in your example. 180? 280? 380? It becomes relevant, not redundant. Remember the reason that odometers were introduced to the car was not for our convenience - it was for maintenance purposes. Ever see a model A or T or early 'teen' production cars with an odometer? Afterwards I'm sure the odometer was responsible for creating a whole new segment in the roadmap industry. I do agree that most people using the term 'actual mileage' may not really understand the intent?

jaunty75

Instead of "actual miles," which I agree with Allan has some meaning, I like the term "original" miles. As opposed to "unoriginal miles?"

I especially like it when either term is applied to a high-mileage (100,000+) car. I've seen craigslist ads stating "150,000 original miles." Great. What a cream puff! Am I supposed to be impressed? It's a high mileage car. What its mileage is doesn't matter anymore if the idea is that the mileage is supposed to be a selling point.

Hey, I've got a '73 Ford Pinto with 1 million miles on it. But they're all original!

MDchanic

Well, as long as they're OEM, I guess that's okay.
I never trust those aftermarket miles.

- Eric

Allan R

I know this is getting off topic and I apologize for that. Just throwing out a wrench here to see if it floats in the water....

So if the car is still all original (not counting regular maintenance wear out parts like brakes/belts, springs, shocks, exhaust...etc) I suppose the mileage would be 'all correct numbers matching miles'??

Here's the other side of the coin. Suppose we took the same car and decided to upgrade the engine and driveline. Do we document the mileage of the body and chassis, or just the driveline?? A 300K car with ONLY 73 original miles on a rebuilt (likely another 200K miles previously on the same block) engine/tranny? This could get really complicated fast.

So when it comes out of the wash and hung on the line for viewing, I would say "Here's an old car. Have no idea how many miles it's gone. If you want it, I'm asking this much" After that the haggling can begin. I have never had any problems selling one of my cars, but then I accept what seems reasonable to ME at the time of sale. And every car I've sold has already returned me the favor of driving satisfaction before it's left. Not to say I don't miss some of them from time to time. And I remember the ones that I put lots of miles on and enjoyed working on.

jaunty75

I think most people are interested in miles on the engine and other major driveline components, but miles on the body, frame, etc. is a close second as it gives some idea of the condition of these parts as well.

If I've got a car with 110,000 miles on it total but 10,000 of those were put on since the engine was rebuilt, that's exactly how I'd describe it. "My car has 110,000 miles on it since new with an engine and transmission rebuilt 10,000 miles ago."

Allan R

We're both on the same page.

MN71W30

My Dad had a maroon one. It was so much better than our 73 Galaxie 500 we had at the time. What a great car.

Danny Boy

Looks like a very nice car...does the interior shot look like it has a bench seat from a sedan? Maybe just a seat cover...

Olds64

That is a pretty car. I think the price is reasonable as well.