twilightblue28A

Another beautiful triple black 442 convertible being auctioned on Ebay Saturday, March 12, 2016. Advertised as a 455/365 body off restoration,ac,and all powers. Photo's of the car are shown on EBay's site. Photo's also show the trim tag and the original color was Sherwood Green,white convertible top, and white bucket seat interior. Unfortunately the photo's do not show the top of the fenders so no way to determine if 70 or 71/72 fenders. I wrote the seller and asked if the car is a matching number car, if the engine and transmission was rebuilt,original rear and whether the rear was rebuilt, build sheet, factory invoice, protect-o-plate as well as other questions. The sellers response: No idea and no information provided!!!!!
The car had a starting bid price of $35,000.00 with a reserve. Last check the car had SIX BIDDERS with the top bid displayed $40,199.00 and the reserve not met. How can you sell a car with a body off restoration, color change, and not know anything about the car? Completely mystified!!!!

Joffroi

Shell bidding most of the time. People get friends to bid the price up of a car with a side deal that no one will have to pay for it in hopes of reeling in someone who "emotionally attached" and wants to win their original bid. Or maybe the seller is really lucky and has 3 or 4 people that have always been looking for this exact same car.

joe_padavano

"Shill" is the word you're looking for.

In any case, if you search completed auctions, you'll find that the high dollar cars rarely meet reserve on ebay. Most dealers simply use the ebay ad as another advertising venue. Most dealers are flippers who really don't know anything about the car and are hoping to find an equally uninformed buyer with more money than brains.

Joffroi

Yup, was typing faster then I was thinking.

twilightblue28A

Believe it or not,the black 442 convertible with a complete color change,the seller was 'shocked to learn' is now bidding at $48,000.00 with no documentation nor information about the car. The seller claims not to know anything about the restoration,if the engine was rebuilt,and on and on it goes!! The car does have 71/72 fenders and a complete color change!! BID closes tomorrow and it's already @$48,000.00 with no information available!! I'm Shocked......

twilightblue28A

Oh by the way, the seller DOES know that thae air conditioning works!!! That must explain the price without any information

twilightblue28A

FYI to all who helped. You were right. The car had nine bidders with the high bid $48,100.00 and did not meet the reserve. Again no information on this car even though it had a body off restoration. Seller had no info nor date of restoration!! Seller was shocked that the car underwent a complete color change. Originally Sherwood Green,white interior and a white convertible top and changed to triple black!!!! Without any knowledge???? First car that the seller knew nothing about his car. "Heaven is a loanly place." THANKS TO ALL

z11375ss

Loanly place all right! You'll need a loan to buy it!

joe_padavano

Once again, this is completely common on ebay. High dollar cars rarely meet reserve. The fact that their are bids at any value below reserve means NOTHING. No cash has changed hands and thus no value has been set. Since the deal didn't close, there is no proof that these were even valid bids, or from different people. One can register for multiple screen names. Search on COMPLETED AUCTIONS and you'll see that few cars actually sell.

jstrits

don't let the fender thing worry you so much. I have restored many 71's with flat "70" fenders (lansing built cars) and I also restored a 70 cutlass s that had rippled fenders. When I stripped the paint off I found original paint underneath, so the rule always doesn't apply.

joe_padavano

The dimpled fenders didn't exist for the 1971 model year, so I'm curious how you knew it was the "original" paint and not just something done after an accident when the car was relatively new. Unless you owned that car since new or had firsthand knowledge from the day it left the factory, it's tough to know that a combination not previously documented was actually built by the factory.

The dimpled fenders were the result of a new federal law requiring crumple zones for the 1971 model year. I believe this law went into effect Jan 1, 1971, so it is certainly both possible and likely that 1971 model year cars built in late 1970 came with flat fenders. It is not possible for 1970 model year cars to have come with fenders that weren't around until 1971, however. The replacement fenders from the factory were all the dimpled style, so a 1970 could certainly have been repaired with new 71 fenders by the dealership after a crash. That doesn't make them factory-installed, however.

jstrits

The car had all the earmarks of having original paint under the flaking top coat. The damage free doors and ram air hood the car was born with. Then it was a two fender replacement car. My original intent was to explain how there are so many things that come up as an exception to the rule and it seems to deter people from the car it self.

Stefano

I go through scenarios like this all the time. I had (non Olds) 1970 Camaro Z28 Original paint Survivor which had a 1971 Style rear 1/4 panel welded on to it.

The resident experts at a certain Camaro site were stating that it must have been in an accident and repaired early in its life. Since I have been painting, welding and fixing cars for a long time, I knew beyond a reasonable doubt that it had never been replaced or repainted.

Turns out that a batch of 71 style 1/4s / new tooling showed up to one of the plants, early and were used in late 1970. So now as more examples were discovered it's accepted as fact.

Why and how it happened is not as important as the fact that it actually did happen. At least in that particular case.

joe_padavano

I've heard far too many stories of "factory mistakes" and "using up old parts" to justify a one-of-none car with a stupid money asking price. Did these happen? I won't say it was impossible. Unfortunately, 99.9% of the time the stories are false. Without proof (factory engineering records, production notes, special order documentation, etc, etc), it's just a story.