Oldsragger

Is it possible to get 11"inch front disks and 11"drums in 5x4,75" in pattern?

or only in 5x5" pattern?

i have 5x4,75" pattern on my 79 delta 88 with maybe 10" inch disk in front and its 9" drum in rear, but maybe i want to install the brake setup from a Toronado GT and it have 11" inch brakes when i google it,, but maybe its only in 5x5" pattrn? i want to keep my 5x4,75"..

or maybe aftermarkets diskebrakes in front and rear is the best option? but i want to keep 15" rims...

the reason is cause of engine swap with some hp under 400hp 455ci that the toronado gt comes with.

thanks for answers

joe_padavano

Your D88 actually has 10.75" front discs, which are usually rounded up to 11" in the literature. Those have the 5 x 4.75" bolt circle. Toronados are FWD and the brakes do not interchange. Your upgrade option is to get the front spindles from a 1977-1990 B/C body with the HD brakes. These are 12" rotors. The spindles are different because of the integral caliper mounting features, which obviously need to move to accommodate the larger diameter rotor. The factory used the 5 x 5" bolt circle with the larger brakes, but you can swap on the rotors from a third-gen Camaro with the 1LE brake package. These 12" rotors bolt onto the B/C body HD brake spindles but have the 5 x 4.75" bolt circle.

At the back the easy drum upgrade is to get the backing plates and brake hardware from a HD brake car (which are 11") and have the 11" drums redrilled for the 5 x 4.75" bolt pattern. You MIGHT be able to use the 11" drums from a 1973-77 Cutlass but I don't know if the flange offset is the same on those cars.

Oldsragger

This is very good info, thanks, i mean the 1970 toronado with 455 engine and brakes, yeah, i forgot i might need another spindles cause of the calipter bolt holes, Well i Will try your tips if i Will find these partsz

joe_padavano

Still FWD and not even close to fitting. Actually, the early 1980s Toro used the 5 x 4.75" bolt circle and the rear disk brakes have been adapted to RWD cars.

Oldsragger

I think about the rear axle, its always possible to swap over a complete 12 bolt from a older camaro with drums and same pattern if its not to short, and weld over the brackets if it have the micky mouse bushings on the top of the diff so i can still have 4 link, i Will ask a friend of me about the lenght and study it

Oldsragger

Oh, then i have misunderstand that toronado gt car from 1970, its a cupe but i didnt know it was deliver with a 455 cid and 400hp in fwd? Ok i Will try to Google the 80 toronado brakes.

joe_padavano

The Camaro will have the same 9.5" rear drums you have currently. The width will be different and the early Camaros use leaf springs, not coils. More importantly, a real 12 bolt axle for a Camaro is worth a TON of money.

joe_padavano

Yes, every Toro ever made was FWD. The REAR brakes and caliper brackets are the only parts from the 1980s Toro that will work, not the fronts.

Oldsragger

I think it was a 76 or 73 camaro, orginal a 454 bb or aftermarket replace, thats why maybe that brake could be use or the rear axle, yeah it have leaf Springs orginaly. Maybe its a wrong option to use anyway.

If its not hard to find the rear brakes from the 80 toronado i Will try to use that if parts its not out of date of get new parts.

Well at least i have some option i can use now if i need to have bigger brakes, thanks.

joe_padavano

FYI, the largest factory-installed engine in a Camaro was the 396/402. The last year of the factory big block Camaro was 1972. There were aftermarket swaps with the 454, but not factory. A Yenko/Nickey Camaro with a big block and a 12 bolt would be worth way too much to part out.

Oldsragger

Maybe its easyer to Just buy a complete rear discbrake kit for my car, but then i need help to find the right kit for my rear axle with 5x4,75 pattern and Will fit over the driveshaft axle,im not sure what the size is on the disc there the rim bolts are in inches" any part nr Will help a lot, its a 10bolt axle with 8,5" diff. But again, it should be avible to use the 15" cragar black soft rims with 4" bs hehe.. Well i can at least use bigger rims if so.

OR i should Just have an document/info what my standard brakes can handle in max hp.

Oldsragger

Ok now i have found a dealer on ebay that selling willwood frontbrake kits that should fit my model, it stands it Will with with OE spindles with 11" rotors, so i guess this is my option i Will use if brake upgrade.. But first i Will ask what power this brakes can handle, they selling from 11" rotors to at least 13" rotors.

Oldsragger

Got a cheap chance now to get a pair of L1E calippers, i still need the HD spindles from 1977-1990 B/C body car? Does it need to me an Oldsmobile car? the rotors of this 3gen camaro i guess have the diskbrakes with the boltpattern in guess, so maybe its best to just buy a new pair of rotors instead with 5x4,75" pattern. (for an 3gen camaro)

What you mean with HD car actually?
(high definition)? is the only way to find out thats a HD car to see if they have 12" rotors in front and have 5x5" pattern?

But again im not sure,maybe the 15" tims will not fit over the 3gen brakes,, so im still thinking on a wilwood bolt on setup for my car i found.. i guess the spindles from a HD car is hard to find?

joe_padavano

One more time. The ONLY parts from the 1LE Camaro that fit your car are the rotors. The 1LE calipers look like this:



The calipers that fit your car (with either the original spindles or the HD brake spindles look like this:



Note that the configurations aren't even close. Use your existing calipers on the new spindles. Those are single piston sliding calipers. The 1LE calipers are four piston fixed calipers. They won't bolt up to your spindles. If you want larger pistons than in the stock calipers, there are aftermarket calipers that bolt onto your spindles. Again, the 1LE calipers will NOT bolt to your spindles.

HD = Heavy Duty brakes. By definition, the HD brakes are the 12" front rotors and 11x2" rear drums. ALL 1977-1990 B-body wagons came with these, as did all 1977-1984 C-body cars (Olds Ninety Eight, Buick Electra), all 1977-1990 B-body cars with taxi or police packages, and nearly all 1977-1990 RWD Caddy Fleetwoods.

15" wheels came stock on the cars with HD brakes, so they clear just fine.

Oldsragger

Ok, i know about a rear axle from a police car from delta 88 so im going to pick up, so that have 11" drums but 5x5 pattern with lsd and i think it was 2:71 inside he told , well thats ok anyway..


my point was to buy the L1E kalipers, so then i just need to find some spindles from a HD car so the L1E brake discs and calipers will fit..ok. (if i will keep the 5x4,75" pattern)

or just find a complete HD brake setup and buy new rims for the 5x5" pattern (if i choose this option, i will have the same brake size that the 1970 delta 88 with the 390hp engine came with at least.)
or install a wilwood brake kit in front and use the 11" drum rear.. ok, i have a plan now..

i think i understand it right now? think i need a coffe to wake up..

joe_padavano

One last try and then I'm done.

DO NOT GET THE 1LE CALIPERS. THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH THE HD SPINDLES.

Was that clear?

Get the spindles for the 12" rotors, which bolt to your car. Get the 1LE ROTORS, which are available new. Use your original calipers. Done.

Oldsragger

Aah, the l1e rotors you mean,to Keep the 5x4,75" pattern, ok, so lets forget the l1e calipers then. Thanks, think i have confused my self about the l1e calipers, maybe i have read to much tread of them about other cars when brake upgrade

I read your first post 3 times now to understand it right, im Reading to fast i think

Oldsragger

Got some impala spindles i can buy, but im not sure yet what model it is from, can anyone see if they can be used? Maybe i need to ask the distance from caliper holes to the center to the spindles and see if they are bigger than mine and if they really is for 12" brakediscs

Oldsragger

The owner now told me the spindles is from a impala wagon with 5x5" pattern orginaly, and it was a late 70 to early 80 mod car, but he didnt know 100% maybe it will fit my car then..

joe_padavano

Spindles from a 1977-1990 wagon are what you want.

Oldsragger

Ok it is right parts then,had a call with him and he used the l1e discs before on them too, the brake shield was 13" big too,, so i will buy this, good them have been sand blasted too.

Thanks for help joe, and sorry to be a askhole

Octania

"Spindles from a 1977-1990 wagon are what you want."

I knew I was saving that '77 wagon for some reason

Do the Holiday 88's or 403 powered 88's of the ~1978 era also have Heavy Duty brakes?

joe_padavano

The 403-powered 88s got the big brakes, as did those with police/taxi packages. Lesser B-body cars got the small brakes and small bolt pattern. All wagons and 98s got the big brakes.

Oldsragger

Have the brakerotors from 1le camaro same dimentions as the bearings (inner outer) from HD rotors/spindles if any know?

Or same dimentions like my own 10,75" rotors? Im still waiting for the Hd impala wagon spindels so i cant take meansurments yet.

joe_padavano

Yes, that's why they are the ones used for this swap.

Oldsragger

Great!

Oldsragger

Lol, i ask summit racing if the 1le rotors are aviable in their shop cause i need them to the impala spindles and they say it will not work or something,maybe they think i will use the 1le calippers too, i think they have missunderstand something and say i should buy a wilwoodkit instead. i will just buy the rotors + new bearings anyway

joe_padavano

Your first problem is assuming that the person who answers the phone at Summit is anything more than just an order-taker. See the other thread about pilot bearings where Summit sent the O.P. the wrong bearing, swearing that it was correct.

Your second problem is that you are talking to Summit at all about these rotors. These are normal replacement items. I don't know if you have a problem getting RockAuto to ship them to you, but that's where I got mine, at the best price.

Your third problem is that we have spent WAAAAY more time talking about this than it takes to actually make the swap. Get the parts as pointed out MANY times above, and install them.

I suspect you are simply looking for an excuse to talk yourself into buying the more expensive Wilwood setup. If that's what you want, fine, but don't expect aftermarket parts to bolt up without some issues.

Oldsragger

No im not out fro any excuse to talk my self into, i just sent a mail to summit racing and ask about the rotors and what spindels i will use them on and with my standard calippers, and got answers from 3 diffrent persons,i try to explain them that the rotors should fit to HD spindles.. lol,well nevermind.. Ordering from rockauto will not be a problem if so,found a seller on ebay too., i will try to find the rotors at same partnr summit racing give me for standard rotors, i can always call my local store cause they import parts from summit too.

No, my plan now is not to install willwood kit when i allready have the spindels soon,,so i will just buy the rotors.

joe_padavano

I have no idea what Summit told you, but I would not trust their info. You want RAYBESTOS Part # 5994R, under $43 each at RockAuto.

Oldsragger

Ok, thanks a lot, nice price too. i couldn`t find it when i search in the catalog on rockauto, it confused me a lot.. but i think the 1le 3gen begun in 1986 if i remember rigth.


total 289US include shipping. for rotors

i sent a partnr request to rockauto for these rotors so i can order all in one package.

joe_padavano

I looked at a 1989 Camaro with "hi perf" brakes. Order wheel bearings and grease seals for your car, but WITH the HD brake package (which will also be the same ones used on the 1LE cars).

Oldsragger

A little update here, iv got the new wheel bearings now. I order it from the 1991 camaro list with hp package.. Got the bearings today and seals and they fit perfect on the wagon spindle...