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Interesting note on the deck milling..id never thought about that. I'll go pull paperwork, but I don't think he ever specified how much was cut.
To say I'd hoped the only issue is that the cam is off, is definitely an understatement.
This whole thing has turned into way more than it should have, and quite frankly it's looking more and more like I'm not going to have a choice but to unload it once it's right. Frustrating doesn't even scratch the surface.
I would love to pull this engine apart…go through it , post pics of what I find. Do a detailed fix and get it corrected.
This isn’t uncommon…a lot of the work I do is fairly fresh builds that are a mess or went kaboom
I have one here now where a guy is taking his builder to small claims court to get some of his money back..barely lasted a month. What a mess….I’ll save what I can, replace what’s needed and get it back to him.
it’s unbelievable the number of shoemaker builders out there…..
Yeah, as much as I'd love to take it back and have him fix it.. A. I'm not sure I trust he'd fix it right and B. I'm not paying for him to fix his mistake..and his excuse continues to be "well you gave me the parts".
The only other shop I'm familiar with in the area isn't taking work right now, as they're so far backed up as it is.
I'd love to get it sorted ASAP, however finding someone to address it has been a hang up.
Went a different route this morning before leaving town, and have a plethora of options for when I get back home. Hopefully I can find a trailer and get it to wherever it ends up going first part of next week and get some answers. In speaking briefly with one today, he already seemed much more willing to address it than any of the other shops I'd talked to thus far. They were either too busy, or pretty much said it'd be a lot of work and suggested someone else.
I forgot to post up the "new zero" mark before leaving town, however here it is..
..and yes, that's as straight as he managed to mark it. I looked back at the notes and saw he said "just over 8°" so..yeah.
In regards to getting the cam degreed and so on..ive been trying to get a trailer lined up for Monday, however the only one who has offered one up so far has expired tags.
Just got off the phone with the guy who currently has the car in his possession..nothing much to report, he was just asking for as much info as possible so that he knew what he'd be getting into. Ironically, he mentioned the assembly shop tech by name, saying "He knows his stuff, I can't see him putting an engine together without degreeing it." but was then blown away when I shared the experience I'd had. He was quick to bring up the vacuum booster/canister idea however (implying maybe the cam was too big), but once I mentioned that this isn't a one off thing and many others have run this combo (or similar enough) without any vacuum issues, he seemed to move on from the canister conversation.
He's going to jump on it first thing Monday, as he had some family things pop up this week. He did say it seems to run too well to have too drastic of an issue, so it could be a compound of small things needing addressed. Based on the cars in his shop, and the cars that he's evidently wrenched on now that I know a name to look for, I feel much more confident about where its at.
He said even though he's starting next week, I should definitely have it back well before the 4th of July..so I'm anxious to not only hear what he finds, but also experience it being finally "correct". I'm definitely ready for this adventure to be over.
Spoke with the guy this morning, and he led off with "I don't mean to offend you, but there's nothing wrong with this thing". In elaborating, he said he's pushed it pretty hard trying to find an issue and cannot. Between it idling well, not showing signs of lean/rich, and so on..he's pretty confident the engine is healthy. In regards to the vacuum, he said he believes the cam is just a bit too big for the engine and therefore not making enough vacuum..so he recommended a canister for the brakes. He said the 4bbls are opening as they should (I had mentioned it felt like it only ran on the primaries regardless of throttle input) but did say that he noticed the carpet was getting in the way of the pedal if you eased into it. If you stomped it, no issues. Something I hadn't thought of as a potential issue (carpet) but have seen enough evidence in my dealership experience to know that's a real thing (#Toyota). He said another thing that may be throwing me for a loop in terms of my expectation is the fact it has 3.23 gears. He said "3.90's will definitely wake it up, but you'll lose your fuel mileage" which I had already known from building the rear in my Dodge. He said from a dead stop, it'll smoke the tires all the way through first gear..so the torque is there (which reiterated his point regarding the carpet).
I also went ahead and called @cutlassefi as we've had countless conversation regarding the vacuum issues with this engine..more so to confirm with someone who has a bit of familiarity with this engine and knows their stuff (familiarity in the fact I've not left him alone..ha!) and he made the suggestion that its possible the compression just isn't where we'd expected..which effects the cam/vacuum.
Ultimately, I had asked the guy with the car if he felt it was safe as it were..to which he confirmed. He well understands its a numbers matching engine, and the last thing I want to do is run the risk of destroying it. I plan on taking into the chassis dyno and having them do a final tune on it once other little things are sorted out, but knowing that as it sits now its not in any real danger of being hurt definitely helps bring some relief.
I think your new guy doesn't know what he's talking about, either. I can't recall what you said your cam specs were but they didn't seem crazy enough to necessitate use of a vacuum canister or 3.90 gears. And if I don't ask this, I bet Mark will -- did he put it on a wideband?
I think your new guy doesn't know what he's talking about, either. I can't recall what you said your cam specs were but they didn't seem crazy enough to necessitate use of a vacuum canister or 3.90 gears. And if I don't ask this, I bet Mark will -- did he put it on a wideband?
Seeing what he builds not just for customers, but for himself..I feel much more confident in this guy than I did the assembly shop. He's not just some 9-5 mechanic/assembly tech who works on anything from a Corvette to a Kia Rio. With that being said, he did not put it on a wide band. He was driving it around, trying to get a feel for exactly what the issues were that I was having..and simply couldn't see a problem worth tearing into anything based on the information given and his experience.
As mentioned, prior to the discussion with Mark..I'd already determined it'll go to a chassis dyno. The first thing they said they do once it get put on there is hook up a wide band, or make provisions for one and do so..so with that, it will be done. I've got other things do to do the car before I trust it'll make the 45 minute drive, as well as a tonsillectomy for my daughter..but that'll get done sooner than later for sure.
Between it idling well, not showing signs of lean/rich, and so on..he's pretty confident the engine is healthy. In regards to the vacuum, he said he believes the cam is just a bit too big for the engine and therefore not making enough vacuum..so he recommended a canister for the brakes.
brotherGood - I realize you're a young father with a job and other responsibilities, but when you have time, if you have time, would you please post your complete cam specs so we can see them and compare them to our cams and real world experiences. I have an original 400 E block, C heads, Edelbrock 2151 Performer intake, and 750cfm Holley/Street Demon carb in my '67 4-4-2. It had a more aggressive cam put in it during the refresh. The car has a pretty lopey idle, but doesn't struggle, and when you get on it, it runs like a bat out of hell. Even with the most expert tune (not by me), there's not enough vacuum to run power front discs. I'm currently using a vacuum canister system to operate my front discs. I'm looking at maybe switching to an electrical vacuum pump system. Here's my cam cards for comparison:
Last edited by Dream67Olds442; June 12th, 2023 at 01:10 PM.
brotherGood - I realize you're a young father with a job and other responsibilities, but when you have time, if you have time, would you please post your complete cam specs so we can see them and compare them to our cams and real world experiences.
He's already posted them (somewhere) in this thread, possibly more than once. I would also suggest that a comparison between E and G blocks for the purpose of camming might not be all that useful because of the differing bore/stroke relationship and the smaller quench area of the G motor.
He's already posted them (somewhere) in this thread, possibly more than once. I would also suggest that a comparison between E and G blocks for the purpose of camming might not be all that useful because of the differing bore/stroke relationship and the smaller quench area of the G motor.
I am aware of the bore/stroke differences between the E and G blocks, and agree that it might not be the best comparison, it's certainly not apples to apples. However, I would still like to see his full cam specs for comparison to mine. If he doesn't re-post them, I'll search the entire thread.
Thank you very much! Our cam specs look very similar to me. It will be interesting to see what you can achieve in regard to vacuum when it goes on the dyno and wideband is used to dial it in.
Well, not much really to report back as of yet.. but I have been driving it around quite a bit. It's great in the morning, but not much of a fan once it gets hot out. In that though, it stumbles from a stop.. but that's pretty much it. I actually took it for a jaunt out in the country after work today and it seems to run pretty well. Definitely shoots up to speed pretty quickly.. at one point I looked down and was doing 80 and felt like it had plenty left to go.
Gonna go ahead and park it to get ready for Nationals (I'm regretting not doing the drag race now) but will hopefully have exhaust/tune done before the end of the season.
May 27th, 2023, 03:25 PM
