Bluemeanie

Hey Guys,
I know there is a ton of threads on this, (I've been scouring all morning), but it all seems to be bits and pieces.
I was hoping to get all the info in one place. If there is a existing all in one thread, I can't find it....
I'm going to have a short opportunity in a couple of weeks, to change my timing chain, oil pump, water pump, and am looking to you all for some guidance and expertise. Hoping you can save me a bunch of time shopping, and scratching my head.
I'm pretty sure the motor is original with 114k on it. I know the nylon is probably in my pan or oil pump, so I just want to do it all at once and get it right. I have some road trips planned this summer if I can get this done.
-1970 SX 455 w/AC, I'll be doing the work with the motor in the car.
-Best way to jack the motor to pull the pan?
-Best oil pan gasket (is it a rope seal in the back?)
-Best replacement parts, or which brands for the timing chain, water pump, and oil pump?
-Anything I should do while I'm in there?
-Any tricks or upgrades to make the work faster, and better in the end?
All and any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...

joe_padavano

You will REALLY be hating life if you do it this way. Once you unbolt everything required to do this, you're only bellhousing and flexplate bolts away from just pulling the motor. You will be MUCH happier if you do. By the way, the rope seal at the rear is between the crank and the main cap. You can't change it simply by dropping the pan. I just did this to a 350 with the engine on a stand and it was a PITA to get the old seal out and the new neoprene seal in. I can't begin to imagine doing it while on my back with oil dripping in my face.

m371961

X2 when it comes to removing oil pan in car. It can be done to do pump, gaskets and rear seal, but if you have not done a lot of mech. work, I wouldn't do it. I've done it on other makes, too old to do it now without a lift, and still prefer engine removal.
I would pull front of engine down, look and see if nylon gear teeth are gone enough to justify pan removal first. If not, loosen front of pan, do chain and gears, front seal w/ dampner repair sleeve, water pump if old, and use silicone to seal front pan gasket.
Cloyes or TRW gears and chain, Fel pro gaskets
Follow chassis repair manual.
At 114K, if you remove engine the MAWs of engine rebuild come into play.

Macadoo

X3 on pulling the motor. I realize it's not what you want to hear, it wasn't what I wanted to hear either. But after getting it out and doing the work, I can't imagine what it would have been like to leave it in the car. Besides, it can be kind of fun if you have the time.
For an all-in-one, all the work you described and then some, check out my thread:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ing-motor.html
Good luck,

Bluemeanie

Thanks Guys,
I must have been reading things through optimistic eyes. I know the pan is a pain to remove, but I thought it could be done by jacking the motor a little, rotating the crank and working it out. I don't know that the rear main is leaking, (I know the pan is) I was just curious if it could be done while I was there. I won't be attempting that on my back.
I know how much easier thing are with the motor out, but with my time limitations, the fact that this motor is super clean, runs strong and I only put 1k miles a year at best on it, I just want to keep it maintained and drive it. There's no reason to think I have to go through it for a long while. Obviously, if the rear main is gone, and I'm that far, I will re-think it and maybe just give in and yank it.
In the meantime, I'll surely check the gears for nylon before I panic, but I don't think the odds are my favor that it's still intact.
thanks again...

MDchanic

X4. If you really need to, you can drop the pan with the engine in the car, at which point changing the oil pump (or just clearing the pickup screen) is easy, but I would NOT waste hours of my life changing the rear main seal this way.

If most of the nylon is still on the gear, don't go crazy worrying about the oil pump pickup.
Get an oil pressure gauge and watch it as you accelerate and rev at the maximum rate that you usually go. If the oil pressure doesn't drop, then you've got no restriction in the pickup.

At 114,000 miles, if you're going to do the amount of work you're contemplating, you MAW pull the engine and do a bunch of other things...

- Eric

Bluemeanie

Thanks Fellas,
OK, so I'll wait to mess with the pan until I see the gear. If in fact the nylon is gone, or most of it, what do you suggest is the best way to raise the motor to make room to get to the oil pump? Jack it and block it?, or use the cherry picker?
Any recommendations on the best brand of water pump?
If in fact I need to at least clean out the oil pump, should I just replace it?, or should I leave this one in there if the pressure test is solid? What's the best brand of oil pump if it needs to be replaced?
For the stock replacement parts price is no concern.
I will certainly entertain pulling the motor if it just seems ridiculous not to, or if the rear main is leaking then it's coming out for sure, but I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort, to save time since I really want to get this done in the short time frame I have.
Thanks again..

oldcutlass

The bits of nylon don't make it to the oil pump they get caught in the pickup screen. If you have good oil pressure then the pump is good. If your not leaking from the rear seal and the pan is weeping I see no reason to be really ambitious to tackle that job with the engine in the car. It will really suck to be you.


For the parts I would just go to the nearest NAPA store give them your car info and purchase a timing set, front seal and gasket, and a water pump and gasket. You will need a harmonic balancer puller if you don't already have one.

MDchanic

Regarding timing sets, I have read of others' experiences with cheap ones, and apparently Chinesium models can be seven or more degrees off in timing, so I would avoid any of the "cheap" sets and get one that's a step or two up the range.

This is especially true if you do not plan to degree your timing as a final check when you install the new set.

- Eric

Bluemeanie

OK OK!! I will heed your advice and not mess with the oil pump in the car. Thank you for setting me straight. Hopefully I wont have to go there. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
One final question while we're here,..Since I have to loosen/drop the front of the pan anyway, is it ridiculous to try to replace the pan gasket? Will it come down enough to clean up?
It doesn't leak horribly, but the previous owner over tightened the heck out of it, and the cork gasket has been pushed out of position. Just something that drives me nuts.
Thanks!!

MDchanic

The pan gasket is usually rock hard and cemented in place, and requires a hammer and chisel to break it off one chip at a time, prior to scraping the surface clean.

I would not want to try it on my back if I could avoid it, but it should be possible if you can get the pan completely off (or you'll never get the pan surface).

- Eric

Macadoo

Eric speaks the truth. Mine was very hard and solidly bonded to the pan in some areas and the block in others. It would just be a shame to go to all that trouble and end up with the same leaky pan.

Macadoo

FYI, my oil pump pick-up was clogged with nylon teeth and I just couldn't get at them. And even if I could I would have been uncomfortable wondering if I got them all. The pump, however, seemed fine so I replaced the pick-up. It was cheap but a PITA to pound on. And then just for peace of mind I had it tack welded.

Bluemeanie

Thanks Eric/Mac, Ya, I know better than to think the gasket would come off easy. I'm realizing how long it's been sits I've actually pulled a pan. That's why I'm asking you guys! I'm hoping I don't need to pull the motor, but totally committed if I need to.
Do it once and do it right....I at least know that!

Macadoo

What's funny, if you read my thread, I was asking the exact same questions. "How do I remove the pan without pulling the motor? Can I change the timing set without removing the pan?" Etc.
We all want that "EASY" button