gibbo69olds

ok, we are focusing on a couple issues here and I am losing track so I am going to paraphrase:

1) I need to check my timing and the balancer. I bought a timing light tonight, the other times I have borrowed friends lights. I think the rubber might actually be pushed out a little on the back of the balancer so the outer ring may be slipping on the inner causing my timing to be even farther off?

2) Flow problem: does anyone know of an actual flow gauge / meter I could put inline with a rad hose so I can read what it is flowing?

3) Everyone, I greatly appreciate all the suggestions, ideas, and advice, however "88 coupe" the way you write your posts are very confusing and do not offer a lot of advice. Then when you try to cut it up to make fun of me is really stupid especially when you don't know what you are talking about.

Joe's original post was

"Sound like there is at least a leak in your wallet... "

my response was

"Joe, I wish I did but I really just want to fix this thing so I can drive my car."

What i am trying to say is that i am willing to spend some money on quality parts to get my car running even if I don't really have it now, as opposed to a leak in my wallet.

Just so you know I have placed the tstat in water and it does open. Does that clear up your humor? i am just trying to solve a problem, maybe everyone is not as intelligent as you on this topic and that is what these things are for. If you would like to make fun of me I will post another thread were you can waste my time. Here I would like to get my car fixed. Again i appreciate all suggestions and will try everything. But your posts, of copying what everyone else says does not help.

But then again i should "not take your word for it, because you may not be old enough to know about such things"

Thanks again everyone i will be checking my timing in the next coupe of days and report back.

gearheads78

I think the hole in the wallet comment is because you used Mondello to order parts. They have been know to rip many people off. I don't think it was a jab at you but maybe I am wrong.

FATRATMATT

After watching my friend Jerry do just about everything discussed in this post. (He had the same problem with a 396). I still think it's in the CARB!

88 coupe

If you do not understand a post, you only need to ask for clarification.

I believe in quality not quantity.

So, I used "humor" when "irony" might have been a better choice.

Sue me.

I'm not the one who has been randomly throwing money/parts at a problem and wondering why it isn't fixed.

We can see why you chose to "paraphrase". Here it is again:

In case anyone is interested, click the blue buttons to see the original posts.

As you have already shown us.

One of the many things you should have done, before you spent any money.

Norm

88 coupe

Or parts that were not needed, regardless of the vendor.

Norm

88 coupe

There you go: Call summit, and order up a new carb. That'll fix it.

Norm

gibbo69olds

gearhead, I have no problem with the original comment from Joe. I know he meant it as a joke and he has already given me quality advise and troubleshooting ideas that I have not known from before.

The only problem I have is with 88 Coupe. Again dude you are wasting my time. Please do not post here. I do not want your comments. You have no idea what my situation is, you have no idea why I by parts and the reasons I by them from who I do. Maybe I have had quality experience from Mondellos and they have solved other issues for me.

I don't want clarification from you, I just want you to stop posting here. There was no humor or irony in your post. You were simply missinterpreting what was there. If you can explain to me what "random parts" I have purchased I will admit I was wrong. Again you are cutting the post up incorrectly, because this is what you want it to say. I am really just trying to solve my problem and I do not want your advise, thank you anyway. The tstat is what I did first. Just because it did not come first in the serious of discussions does not mean I have not done it / thought about it. You are really and *******. Could you explain to me what your problem is exactly? What helpful piece of advise have you contributed to the thread? You are wrong about everything you have written or just copied what everyone else is saying.

Please, do not post here any more.

Thank you.

Oldsguy

You can suggest that Norm not post and he may or may not quit on this thread. We are familiar with Norm and his posting style, he doesn't waste time or words, he is not rude, just terse. It is hard to describe a problem on the internet in an effort to solicit help, just as hard to provide it, perhaps harder even. I agree with Norm, and others that focus is important and coolant flow is your problem. Perhaps my posts misguided you but I wanted to help you understand about your timing issue and got side-tracked myself, it will not cause an overheating problem, at least in your situation.
You DID throw money at the problem in the beginning when you purchased an electric pump and you WILL throw more money at the problem if you buy a new carburetor. You admitted to spending hundreds of dollars on this problem apparently even before asking about it here. Concentrate on the coolant flow problem. Yes, there is probably a device that will measure flow rate of a fluid that could be used in your situation but it isn't necessary and it is probably expensive. Did you ever definitively determine if you had cool spots on your radiator surface? If so I missed it. Are you inserting the thermostat correctly? Is your lower radiator hose hot after the engine warms up, before it overheats, this will tell you if your thermostat is opening. You can do a power flush using a commercial product that has a T fitting and allows you to run water through the engine from the garden hose, this may help and is cheap. We really would like to help you with your problem, just stay with us and we will stay with you.

Texascarnut

Why would anyone want to call Summit for a simple replacement carburetor. The best they can do is offer up some Edlebrock or Holley abortion that is not necessarily 100% the same specifications as the original Carter or Rochester abortion.

If the carburetor truly has a problem a simple $25 rebuild kit will probably take care of it.

Texascarnut

The outer ring might have slipped but my experience with balancers on Olds engines has been when the rubber gets hard and lets go the darn ring will be completely separated from the balancer hub. Be careful messing with that thing as a correct new harmonic balancer may be hard to come by and having one rebuilt is darn costly.

FATRATMATT

I just thought maybe you or someone you know might have a carb you could put on your motor to see if that is causing your problem. I didn't intend for you to buy a new one, sounds like you have spent enough already, I was just passing on something that I've seen with my own two eye's, but hey I guess my eye's have lied to me and I'll never ever believe them again... Good luck to you, I'm outta this one.

gibbo69olds

Oldsguy, this is the problem, you folks are reading what this mad man is saying. I am not about to go buy anything until I have the data and make my own decision. I am NOT buying a carb, it was his post to highlight his feelings. Why wouldn't you block someone that is causing problems? From what I understand it is not the first time.

It is again your feeling that I am throwing money away on an electric water pump. Don't pretend to know what my plans are for this car or why I buy things. It may appear to you folks that this is one of my first endevors to work on cars. I have been a back yard mechanic for many years and have looked at many of the issues posed to me already. I have NOT worked on oldsmobiles as long. I posted here hoping someone with more experience with OLDS would be able to help instead of getting attacked. This was an engine and tranny swap (done by myself) the original motor was a 350 with the cooling system appropriate for that engine. I bought a new radiator, fans, and water pump for the new motor and my desires for the motor/car in the future. So I did not need anyones advise on my purchases. The engine has run hot since the day I put it in.

Yes the radiator has even temperature across the entire thing when the tstat opens. I posted that back on 6-23 at 4:05. Yes tstat is in correctly. I have run a 160 degree as well as none. Fans on from the time I start the engine and it still overheats sitting in my drive.

I have the t fitting in the heater hose from the last time I flushed it. I can flush it again but nothing was coming out last time.

Texas, no one is calling anyone and buying anything yet. The engine came with an eldelbrock carb and I have no plans to change it. You are right the only thing I would do is rebuild it, if I had to.

Why would buying a replacement balancer not work correctly? You are saying that they do not make them to specs or calibrate them? If mine is messed up, then what?

Fatratmatt, I appreciate your experience and I do have an extra rachester from the 350. It is old and beat up but did work the last time. thank you again and if you have any further things to offer I would appreciate them. Do not feel like I am attacking you. This has all started because of "88 coupe". And apparently nothing can be done about that!! Thank you again.

Oldsguy

You are right, not going to ban someone because they have offended someone else in the way they post. Who knows, tomorrow I may offend someone and then the cry would be to ban me . Just ignore Norms posts if they offend you (you can select that in "options"). You have done a lot to eliminate a coolant flow problem then, radiator, t-stat, flush, etc. It might be that the radiator is not able to handle the cooling job or the lack of a fan shroud is limiting it's ability to do so. Can you re-install an original style clutch fan and the shroud and see if that fixes it?

joe_padavano

Yes, exactly correct. Sorry if that was misinterpreted. I've never seen Olds head gaskets priced that high.

Texascarnut

gibbo69olds - My comment about the carburetor was really intended for the benefit of the Forum's resident obnoxious BOZO for having suggested the solution was a new carb from Summit; especially when just about every darn parts house in existence sells Edlebrock and Holley.

I have to admit I have a bit of distrust when it comes to after market harmonic balancers. They are available for the 455 and may be alright. I just did a quick check of rockauto.com and they do have two makes of after market balancers for the 455, average price $60.00. Dorman (Motormite) is one of the producers and it may well be a good part. Of course just about any parts house can supply Dorman parts.

Getting back to the original problem of overheating I have to ask if the engine in question is a rebuild or an unmolested stock engine? I ask this because we may be getting down to gasket orientation or even crud from machining blocking or partially blocking a passage in a head, maybe even something like the intake for one year's production being placed on the motor which messes up coolant flow. I have no experience with the latter on Olds engines but have run into that with old Ford FE block engines when someone threw together a bunch of parts from two or more years production.

gibbo69olds

Oldsguy, I understand. I just don't agree. Can we agree to disagree?

Rad might not be able to but I bought it for this application specific. It has a shroud with the new fans.

Talked about that earlier too, I can reinstall the fan, no clutch on the 68, but not the shroud.

Texas, It is not a rebuild, as far as I know. The items that are not on it are aftermarket items that I bought. But no it has never been rebuilt.

Do you believe Dorman is a good product?

Texascarnut

Some things yes, others questionable. Unfortunately, with older vehicles there are some parts that are currently only being produced by Dorman (Motormite).

After market parts are almost always a crap shoot until someone has proven them through use to be good, in my opinion. Sometimes we find ourselves with little choice but to rely on quality experiences with other parts from an after market supplier.

gearheads78

I guess I am reading this stuff different. I read 88 coupes carb comment as being extreemly sarcastic and swapping carb is just waisting more time and money.




Gibbo69olds,
If you have not already I would find true TDC and remark the balancer if needed. You can make a piston stop out of an old plug. Break out the center and tack a piece of bolt or rod so it goes down in the chamber. Slowly rotate motor by hand until it stops and make a mark on the balancer. Then rotate the other direction until it stops agains and make a mark. Mid way between the two is your true TDC.

You mentioned that this has been going one since it started. What was the piston clearance set to. If its too tight it will cause your problem and the only way to fix it is pull it apart and rehone and new rings. Also might need pistons if those are scuffed.

joe_padavano

I will say that I've usually had good luck with Dorman. They specialize in the small hard-to-get parts that you can't get anyplace else. The alternative is usually the wrecking yard, which is equally a crapshoot. Dorman even has a place on their website where you can suggest new items for them to produce. I figure if a company goes through this much trouble, I'll patronize them if I can.

The_Jeremiah

Im just taking a shot in the dark here, every little bit helps i guess. Is it running to lean ? any engine running to lean can get up to 250

88 coupe

Went right over your head, didn't it?

Norm

88 coupe

My posts are based on the information you have supplied. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is that your objective, or subjective, opinion?

Any documentation to back that up?

You are not my Momma, and you do not tell me what to do.

Norm

citcapp

Just a thought, don't discount the head gasket as not being the problem. I talked to a couple of hot rod buddy's of mine and along with me we have all had new head gaskets fail with very small compression leaks that over pressurize the cooling system and retarde circulation. The system begains to sound like a tea kettle boiling as it overheats.

88 coupe

In my experience (as little as I have) a lean mixture causes, an engine to run rough at idle and, a loss of power while driving.

From: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...html#post35908

Not what the OP described.

Norm

Texascarnut

This thread seems to be taking on the appearance of a Dog chasing its own tail. Round and round we go!

59-59-59

I had this problem on an old 371 Olds..It turned out to be a microscopic crack in the cylinder head that was letting exhaust gasses into one of the cooling passages.. Simple test for this? I let the car warm up without the radiator cap on and you could see bubbles of air rising to the top of the radiator.. Maybe not the smartest thing to do but it worked for me. This didnt happen until the car was warmed up for about 20 minutes

88 coupe

Good call. Same thing can happen to late heads, when they are overheated.

Any radiator repair shop can do the test in a few minutes, or your local auto parts store should sell the test kit.

Norm

gibbo69olds

gearhead, would a bolt with a longer length and same thread work the same way? I don't have a welder.

Oldsguy

I have used a non-metallic item like a wooden dowel, it may not work as well but you can watch it rise as the piston pushes it up on the way to maximum stroke and the begin to fall again. That method takes an assistant to help out though.

Danny Wiseley

If that sucker takes 30 minutes to overheat at idle in your driveway, it's pretty close to right. I believe if it had a cracked head or bad gasket it would overheat much sooner in those conditions. I think it's an airflow problem. Even if the current electric fans are "rated" at 2200+, that's probably on a test stand with no restriction nor back pressure, and at optimal voltage. If you get a proper shroud, a seven-blade fan and heavy-duty fan clutch, with the fan in the proper position in the shroud (1/2 thickness out) your problem will disappear. Getting all this will probably not be easy, but will pay off when you are cruising your hot rod. Good luck.
DW

gearheads78

It will work but will not be quite as accurate unless you can find just the right length. You want to be able snug it up so it does not rock in the threads when the piston comes up to touch it.

59-59-59

Not really - I thought that too, but what I experienced was 4 to 5 cooling cycles when the thermostat opened and closed then the overheating happening. I guess the microscopic crack in the cylinder needed time to open up at the ideal temperature

88 coupe

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...00354&D=300354

Norm

gearheads78

Any updates to what this was?

gibbo69olds

The update is that there is no update, unfortunately a mercruiser carb rebuild , boat trailer axle replacement, and a briggs and stratton engine rebuild jumped ahead in the line of priorities. Hopefully will tie all of these up this week and have sometime to work on the car. Too many toys and projects and not enough time. I promise to update as soon as I have something. Thanks again everyone!!

gibbo69olds

OK guys I think it is a timing issue mixed in with a balancer issue. I checked timing and at idle with advance connected I have 32 degrees advance. Way to much from what I have been reading. I found an article at www.442.com that if all the info is correct will help me out a lot. They are say that initial advance (no vacumm) should be around 10-18. The other thing is that they say there should be little to no vacumm advance at idle. Do you guys agree? They state mechanical advance should be around 20 -26 at 3500 rpm. The mechanical timing should not add any additional timing after that. Do you guys agree? I need to check TDC with a pistone stop which I still have not to see if the balancer is crap. More to come fellas, I think I am atl east getting somewhere.

Oldsguy

So just set your initial timing back and see what you get.

gibbo69olds

but if the balancer is crud I am just setting it incorrectly. Wouldn't it make sense to test the balancer first?

sootieoil

evans waterless coolant will stop the overheating!
water will destroy your cooling system in due time.
I have it in 4 different vehicles, all never need any maintainence

geckonz08