Threejdsolds

I am almost (I hope) done with a transplant of a 1967 Toro 425 into my 1964 Cutlass. I was reading another post re: the brackets/ pulleys. I used 1964 alternator brackets (see pictures)- all the bolt holes but the one near the water pump lined up ;the big block is wider than the small block. I had to weld on a tab and fill the original hole. The power steering brackets I had , which I was told were from a 64 Cutlass,fit fine. The holes in the block, head ,and intake all lined up as did the head bolt. It took me 5 trips to the parts store to get the right length belts- the 64 belts were too short due to the greater width of the 425. I thought I was "good to go" until I was told that the 64 radiator with the driver side outlet is no longer available (my radiator is trash). Then, in looking further, I realized that the outlet from the 64 Olds water pump blocks the view of the timing marks. So...... I plan to get a 1965 Cutlass water pump with the passenger side outlet, which means a new radiator. The local radiator shop says the 1965 442 radiator will fit but that it is a "2 row" radiator and he is suggesting that he build a "4 row" radiator. The cost of this radiator will be more than the cost of an aftermarket aluminum model. Should I go with the 65 442 radiator , the aftermarket aluminum model, or is there a better option? I appreciate your help.

oldcutlass

Sounds like plan, looks like it belongs in there!

BILL DEMMER

nice project!! a 3 row rad is the minimum i'd run in there, and i think you're going to need to change the saddles on the top and bottom plates. are you using the toro pulleys? was the toro equipped with a/c / hd cooling. this will likely affect your water pump choice. it looks like you're using the toro intake, too. i used the rad from the donor '67 delta, it fit in there fine after replacing the saddles on the passenger side, iirc. it was/is a nearly new harrison radiator with the proper fpi number(fins per inch). cools the 425 fine with the 5-blade clutch fan also from the donor delta.


bill

64Rocket

The '64 Rad support is a one only. The stock '65 and up rad is too tall by about 2". I would say the aluminum rad is a better way to go..
Any '65 and up water pump will work, you just need to get one that is the exact same length as the '64, so you can use the pulleys from the 330. That way all your belts will line up.
I did some cutting on the side panels so I could get a bigger rad in there. I made lower brkts with pads and upper straps to hold it in place. If you need some pic's, I'll give it a shot.

Also, if you use the, later water pump, you need to get the timing tab for the driver side, and remark your damper.

Gene

Threejdsolds

Thanks, guys, for your input. I was in Reno last weekend and went to Summit. I got a 1965 Cutlass water pump and it was the right (5.1 inch) height. They had an aluminum radiator that is 26 inches wide and 19 inches tall, with the passenger side outlet. The stock radiator is about the same width but is a little taller. I am thinking I will try to make lower brackets to raise the radiator so I can use the stock top mounts/brackets. Enclosed is a picture of the alternator bracket with the tab added and the stock hole filled. I think the alternator and power steering brackets I used were 1964 Cutlass (no air) brackets. One member suggested that they should not fit a big block. Did they fit because the Toro intake is different? I ask because I acquired a 1964 parts car and there are more of these brackets in the trunk, including several power steering units (brackets and pumps). Wondering what else they will fit? Thanks again for your help, John.

joe_padavano

1964 brackets are one-year-only and were only designed to fit the SBO because the BBO didn't exist until 1965. Glad you got it worked out, but for future reference the 65-67 brackets fit both BBO and SBO with no mods needed.

Threejdsolds

Joe, I had to modify the vertical piece of the alternator bracket (as shown in the pictures). The power steering brackets required no modifications. Can you tell from the pictures if the power steering brackets I used are (1) 1964 brackets or (2) 1965- brackets? John

2blu442

Looks like your making progress John! Sorry I've not replied to your email yet, work got insanely busy for the last few weeks. If you decide to change any of the brackets I should have extras. The power steering pump is definitely the early style, but I've only had one 1964 pump so I'm not sure if its that vintage or another year. John

therobski

Brother I just read your thread, if it's not too late call Champion Radiator. Pictured here is almost a direct fit aluminum radiator. Designed originally for a 64-65 GTO same height width as a 64 with the inlet on the pass side! YOU do not have to modify the radiator support! I say almost, look in the picture at the top mounting bracket-it does not fit 100% correctly, however bolted down its a secure fit but I may widen the two little brackets and re-weld them for a cleaner look. But hardly noticeable. I have been busy with other projects waiting for the body shop and have not been on the forum everyday like I used to. Feel free to e-mail me with any detail.
IMG_1692.jpg
IMG_1691.jpg
IMG_1693.jpg

therobski

Also the overflow tube is pointing towards the drivers side-will have to reroute the tube to the overflow bottle on the drivers side.

Threejdsolds

John, how is the 442 coming along? I think I do have an extra set of the moldings that run along the bottom of the car between the wheels. I have been out of town but will check this week. I am not sure if I have the small end pieces. I used lower radiator brackets from a 1971 Chev parts truck I have and the stock top brackets look like they will now work.I will post pics. Still interested to know what year the power steering brackets/pump are from. Looks like I have 4-5 more of this setup in the parts car trunk.

therobski

Hey thanks for the response that took some time to put together. I guess that's why I'm so much not on here anymore.

F85cutlass

I have a 64 cutlass
455 4 core radiator with 2 ebay special
12" fans
It works great but on a 85+ day
It seems to run hot 230
So I avoid driving it on real hot days
What mechanical fan will fit
Seems like tight fit

joe_padavano

The 455 is exactly the same overall length as the 330. The only external difference between the two is the deck height. Any fan that fit with the 330 fits exactly the same with the 455. Your car is supposed to use the 5" water pump. Since the 64 water pumps are unique to that model year, I suspect you have a longer water pump that came with the 455. Is this the case?

therobski

F85 cutlass, Its just about all together, getting closer to starting it up soon. My thread has been updated quite a bit check it out under major projects and projects titled "update progress on 64 post". What I have is an aluminum radiator from Champion. The 64-65 GTO have the same size as the 64 only core support. I have 65 and up water pump and with dual flex a lite fans have a 1/2 inch of wiggle room. I thought it was a little close myself and a buddy said " if your pump wiggles that much you have BIG problems so don't worry about" If I could do it all over again I would have sourced a 65 core support. Joe on those older pictures-I spent ALOT of time making that dual snorkel air cleaner out of two 65 Starfire air cleaners and never bothered to check hood clearance and there's no way its going to fit!!

oldcutlass

Rob, what carb are you running, I like the dual snorkel air cleaner and wonder if a drop base lower portion would help.

F85cutlass

I am using a 455 water pump that comes out on the passenger side
I did originally use the original 330 water pump but I upgraded radiator and the distance from the radiator to the fan pulley is close
I see on here someone used a Ford Taurus electric fan set up
Comes with shroud
And looks good
Fyi
I have the original blade
And it hit
Also has a spacer

oldcutlass

Do you have a picture of your setup that you can post? Can you get away with a shorter spacer with your fan? Although I've never used the Ford electric fan setup, other are very happy with it.

F85cutlass

I do
Not a great pic
Car is in storage
How do I add a pic

oldcutlass

Here are some directions.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-pictures.html

F85cutlass

F85cutlass

Also this is going to sound dumb
Quite embarrassed to ask this
But is my fuel pump unsure down
I could not get it in the other way
Seems like when I see someone else's car ołds
It's the other way
Plus as you can see it hits the lower hose

therobski

OldCutlass, I have a Q-jet on a performer intake. I cut the starfire air cleaner base ( not in pics) and test fit in a drop base from a 68-69 Corvette and its still to high. I think I should have started with a 330-400 2-4B air cleaners and build one. The Starfire air cleaners are a little 4 inches tall, compared to the 3 inch 330-400 have. It looks so good I may source a 330-400 4b air cleaner and graft the snokers on it from the Starfire? There should tons of them around. The one on the motor now is a 3 inch 442 with a Q-jet drop base-68-69 Corvette.

therobski

Second thought, after looking at the pictures and measurements, the Starfire snorkels are too big for the F-85 air cleaners. That said I would need two 4b air cleaners to put this together.

F85cutlass

how do you like that intake compared the stock
any difference in power?
I have a stock intake and quad
I put a holley 800 dp on that intake
the quad was much more responsive and great on gas

joe_padavano

Sorry, but you've got it upside down. Do not turn the motor over with it that way. If the fuel pump eccentric was at the highest lift point when you tried to install it, you need to compress the spring in the pump as you bolt it up. This can be difficult, so sometimes you need to bump the engine over to rotate the eccentric so the low spot is up. That makes pump installation much easier.

Olds pumps go opposite of Chevy pumps. The Olds pump body and fittings are up, not down.

oldcutlass

Yes, unfortunately your one of the few who can get a square peg in a round hole, do as Joe said for the fuel pump. If you can take a few pictures of your fans and the radiator it will help a little better. Looks like an aluminum replacement radiator.

oldcutlass

Rob, I use this drop base, it has the most clearance I have found.

http://www.ss396.com/chevelle/AAC-8864.html

F85cutlass

the crazy thing I have been driving it like this for at least 3 years
I will flip that around


did they make different fuel pump that were reversed

F85cutlass

F85cutlass

Here's my pic
I still think I have limited space
I just ordered a double crank pulley
Instead of using the triple row
Now that I remember the blade was hitting the crank
Pulley

F85cutlass

oldcutlass

Does it get to 230 driving at speed or just during slow traffic and idle? Is there anything in front of the radiator like a trans aux cooler?

F85cutlass

There is a Trans cooler
Small one
Strapped on to the radiator
3x4 approx
I think these cheap ebay dual 12
Fans are just not cutting it
It runs great until it's about 85+
Than yes it creeps to 230 at stop lights
Longest lights ever
Should i go after a Taurus fan
Or spend the boatload of money on some
Fans that draw a boatload of amps
Or I think I should try to get the
Mechanical fan on somehow

oldcutlass

I setup a new thread here for you:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ng-issues.html

F85cutlass

I am embarrassed to say I did have that in backwards
Good thing I didn't cause any more damage
Thanks guys

67442nut

As well as I can tell from your pics, your power steering brackets are the same as '66 and '67.
Not familiar enough with '65 to say it's the same too, but, probably is.