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Good day. I’ve been meaning to kick this off for a while so here goes. This is my 70 442. I purchased it about 18 months ago and I would like to learn about its history if possible. The car is a 442 but now identifies as a W-30 courtesy of a previous restoration. I am honest about it and don’t try to pass it off as a W-30. The car is a Fremont build and was delivered to Cable Leasing, Van Ness Ave.San Francisco CA. Protect o Plate
date is 06-19-70. The car I believe was ordered to be a stop light drag racer or later converted to one.
I believe it was initially an Automatic and is a now a 4 speed. The car is reputed too be a California car for its entire life and was purchased in Encinitas CA. It has had a frame off restoration Here it is
and the engine replaced.
The replication to appear as a w-30 includes the red fender wells and obviously W-30 striping, The engine is out of a “big” Olds of 72 vintage but heavily modified to include Crane w-30 replica cam, Crane Hi Intensity lifters. “F” casting heads, W-30 intake manifold, previously mentioned 4 speed and a 4:56 (?)posi diff when I bought it. The body work and paint are exceptional so I suspect a professional high end shop. When purchased it had a race clutch in her but that was replaced and the diff gears changed to 3:42.
I would be interested in any history the Olds family can provide about this car. I have old registration that says the car spent at least its first ten years in the Bay Area and its last ten years or so in the San Diego area. VIN is 344670Z138202.
Also would appreciate an eval of the restoration.
WHICH "W30 cam". Over the years there were six different cam profiles used in the W30 motors, including two different ones in the 1970 model year alone. The 285/287 cam used in the AT cars was the exact same cam used in every 1970 442 with AT built. The 328/328 cam used in the MT motors didn't generate enough vacuum to operate power brakes or the A/C system. Also, check the casting number on the heads above the center two exhaust ports. It's unfortunately common to doctor run-of-the-mill "E" head castings to turn them into ersatz "F" castings for a fraction of the cost, but it's extremely difficult to turn the 403686 casting number into the correct 404438.
The car is a Fremont build and was delivered to Cable Leasing, Van Ness Ave.San Francisco CA. Protect o Plate date is 06-19-70. Also would appreciate an eval of the restoration.
That's a beautiful car. And the restoration is better than most.
The most glaring error in the pictures is the absence of NA9 (evaporative emission) equipment, which would have been required on a car delivered in California after Jan 01, 1970.
If the provenance is correct, you may still be able to see some traces of NA9. The most visible would be the presence of the three hard lines on the top of the passenger-side frame rail and the deep-reach gas cap.
However, the third line may have been deleted during body-off restoration and a new fuel tank may have been added.
That's a beautiful car. And the restoration is better than most.
The most glaring error in the pictures is the absence of NA9 (evaporative emission) equipment, which would have been required on a car delivered in California after Jan 01, 1970.
If the provenance is correct, you may still be able to see some traces of NA9. The most visible would be the presence of the three hard lines on the top of the passenger-side frame rail and the deep-reach gas cap.
However, the third line may have been deleted during body-off restoration and a new fuel tank may have been added.
It's not a "restoration", and the OP is honest about that. The location of the washer tank is the most glaring error. Actually, the "Z" in the VIN and the wing on a convertible are the most glaring things. The early reproduction red inner fenders with the amorphous blobs instead of the crisp edges on the mounting bosses is another. It's a fine driver and a good looking car. It's not intended to be a "correct" restoration. The OP has a nice car and should enjoy it. I've never personally understood the obsession people have with tracing ownership. Usually that only ends in frustration, and what's the point anyway? It's your car now.
....... I've never personally understood the obsession people have with tracing ownership. Usually that only ends in frustration, and what's the point anyway? It's your car now.
I was never a history buff either until I got old... Provided the previous owners are still with us, they can possibly add some providence to the car with old pictures or paperwork. This is helpful in validating a "real" car but in this case, I think he is just looking to gather all the info he can. Nothing wrong with that.
Until about 10 years ago, you could send your VIN and $10 to the Kansas DMV in Topeka and they would tell you every previous owner that had registered your car in the state. I did that for a 63 Corvette I had. It was a blast researching names and sending letters to previous owners. I learned a lot about the history of that car from those guys.
I was never a history buff either until I got old... Provided the previous owners are still with us, they can possibly add some providence to the car with old pictures or paperwork. This is helpful in validating a "real" car but in this case, I think he is just looking to gather all the info he can. Nothing wrong with that.
Until about 10 years ago, you could send your VIN and $10 to the Kansas DMV in Topeka and they would tell you every previous owner that had registered your car in the state. I did that for a 63 Corvette I had. It was a blast researching names and sending letters to previous owners. I learned a lot about the history of that car from those guys.
tc
Unfortunately, that is completely dependent on the particular state, and as you suggest, things have changed in the last decade. People assume that services like CarFax exist for older cars. Many of those records were on paper and there is zero incentive to waste any effort digitizing them (if they exist at all). Also, any earnest search like that runs the risk of uncovering something you don't want to know (like a sketchy ownership transfer at some time in the last half century). Don't poke the bear.
I guess my urge to find out the history of this car is due to the quality of the frame off restoration and the quantity of W-30 parts that were used to identify as a W-30. My curious mind has come up with a scenario that may or may not have happened. My mind says it was ordered as a 442 with most of the bells and whistles ticked off.
It was I believe an automatic and meant to be a stop light racer. Sometime in its life the engine was destroyed and needed to be replaced. Whoever owned the car then decided to fully refurbish the car and make it into a W-30 “tribute”. At that time the “F” heads were sourced along with the W-30 intake manifold and Muncy 4 speed. Thanks to Joe I did verify they are no kidding “F” heads. They loaded up the money gun and also did the frame off refurb to include a powder coated frame and a beautiful job on the body and paint. This all may be an hallucination on my part but was just curious about the craftsmen who did the work and brought this car to its present state. This is not a trailer queen and is a high quality driver. It’s not hard to convince myself that I’m a 20 something young guy being “cool” instead of a gray haired retired pilot when I drive her. It’s my personal time machine, just wish the results were permanent.
Hey enjoy the heck out of that beautiful machine, she-is a head turner for certain.. love the color combo..all us muscle car era folks love to drive history, definitely makes me feel young even if only for a short while..
Only thing I do not understand why Oldsmobile put a muncie M21 in the w30 with a 3:42 gear? The 3:91 gear I understand..here I go deviating from the subject..lol.
As with all alterations, even on a site where pretty much every one is knowledgeable and cordial, there will be digressions. Folks have their purists positions, their power preference, their idea for how to do things... including whether to care about where your beautiful automobile came from. Mine went from Lansing to Chesrown to my family. That story is rare; however, almost all of these cars have some sort of interesting history. Even if yours is just that it fell into the lap of a fantastic restorer, it is your choice. Joe's trepidation for an ownership snafu is just as legitimate as you wanting to know who did the work. I am glad you understand what you have and care enough to know more. Good luck on your search!
Maybe let us know what you have done so far and folks can chime in with thoughts... have you just done a google search for the VIN? Could produce a prior sale...
Since you don't appear to have any information on even the most recent owner I'm assuming maybe you got it at an auction?? If so, is there any way of the auction house providing you with the information of the seller so you at least have somewhere to start? I've never bought a car at auction and am not familiar with how they operate so apologies if this is a dumb question.
It's hard to imaging these things are really as old as they are and most, if not all have led extremely interesting lives. The most interesting are those that have had a lot of use, if not abuse. The original owner cars that have been babied in the garage for 50 years make for excellent acquisitions now but it's kinda like dating a girl that never left the house. BORING! The one's that got driven like they were intended to be make for some great war stories.
"The original owner cars that have been babied in the garage for 50 years make for excellent acquisitions now but it's kinda like dating a girl that never left the house. BORING! The one's that got driven like they were intended to be make for some great war stories."
December 30th, 2021, 08:14 PM
