Finally got my garage redone and climate managed to where it's comfortable to be out there again. I'm getting ready to chase an electric issue with my interior and exterior lights that I've posted about before. I just want to make sure I'm remembering everything I need to watch for as I proceed...
I'm not going to remove the column, just drop it to get the dash out. I know I should remove the shift indicator, and once the support bolts are out, it should be able to drop (how far? to the seat?). I'll support it from there. The steering wheel has been removed.
Remove the headlight switch - done that enough times that it has become second nature. Disconnect the lower electrical connections such as the antenna and wipers. Radio is already out of the car.
Somewhere I need to disconnect the cruise control assembly. I'm guessing it will become fairly obvious once it's exposed. I'm sure the connecting slide piece is broken already.
The dash is held in place by 6(?) screws that are easily accessible. Remove those, uncouple the speedo cable under the hood, pull forward slightly and disconnect the air duct, the vacuum hoses, the upper power wires to the gauges. Disconnect the speedo cable from the speedo.
I'm thinking at this point the cluster should be ready to come out.
I'm hoping that the wiring harness will be left as fully exposed as possible so I can test each connection to the lights and the column. There is a disconnect somewhere in the tangle of wires that affects the bottom left quadrant of the fuse panel. I suppose this will also expose the condition of the vacuum hoses and I may end up replacing some or all of those, though I really don't care to.
What am I missing? I have the manuals, but it's easier for me to talk through the steps. I have a renovated dash cluster ready to go back in once I figure out this electrical connection issue, and then the car is roadworthy again.
I'd like to replace the dash speaker, but is it possible without removing the padded dash? Thanks for any advice here on any step of this process.

 

I had my '66 Toro instrument cluster out last year to refinish the wrinkle paint. I'm not 100% sure if the process is identical for the '67 but I will share what I learned.

Yes, the column will sit on the seat when you pull the support bolts. I found that this was manageable just fine. As you mentioned, make sure you pull the transmission needle and lay something protective over top of the column so that you don't scratch up the paint. The other crucial thing, at least on the '66, is to pull the temperature control cable from the heater box under the hood. It's really easy to remove and it allows for so much more slack when you pull the panel. You mentioned the speedo cable, which also aids in the slack. I also remember the connector for the ignition fighting me a bit. Having the radio out already will help you a lot as well.

With regards to that speaker, god only knows. Mine is also toasted and it appears they built the whole car around that thing. May not be worth messing with. Maybe someone on here has some trick to remove it without much fuss.

Hope this helps!

 

That sliding piece in the cruise control head may be broken, but the bowden cable may still be attached. I would unhook that cable at the regulator and make sure it'll slide in its firewall opening. At the regulator, that is a metal hook on the cable going into a plastic cage in the regulator. Disconnecting may cause the cage to disintegrate.

 

Great suggestion on the heater cable. For sure I wouldn't have thought of that. I'm sure it's the same on the '67. And I'm sure you're right about that speaker - it's shown on the earliest drawings of the car in the ASM before anything is installed... It's frustrating to see is but not be able to access it. Once things are apart I'll take another look.

 

Yes, I'm sure the cable is still attached - I'll disconnect at the regulator for sure.

 

It's an annoying design for sure. The speaker itself is a 10 ohm model and it uses the frame as the negative connection to the radio so there's only a single wire running to it and the rear speaker as well.. This is another pain in the butt if you want to upgrade the internals of your radio to a modern conversion because they require a negative terminal to the speaker. I only mention it as I've been looking at doing the conversion on my original AM radio which seems like a really nice upgrade.

The rear speaker is a little more sensible because at least you can change it out to a more modern style pretty easily but you'll still have to run a new +/- wire to the radio head if you do convert your radio.

Right now I'm just ignoring the front speaker and using the rear only. It is totally acceptable in my opinion.

 

Hello Everybody,
So I am about to dig into the control panel on my 1966 Toronado for the first time as well to get to the climate control unit. Just looking things over and checking the thread here and the instructions in the service manual, I admit that I am stumped by the second step...removing the transmission indicator needle. That appears to be behind the chrome bezel. Doesn't that have to come off first? If not, how do you access the needle?
Thanks for the help!

 

On the bottom of the steering column is a small access panel. Pop it off. There is a set screw for the transmission pointer under this panel and you can loosen it with a hex key. Then you can remove the pointer out through the bottom.

 

Fantastic! Thanks for the help, and the quick reply

 

Well, it's been a minute, but I finally got around to pulling the dash today. It is FAR more difficult than I imagined it would be. The shop manual is super vague with instructions like, "disconnect switches" once the dash is loosened, and it takes a while to figure out that the heater controls do NOT come off, nor does the cruise control dial. These have to be unscrewed from the back of the panel as there is no way to disconnect them from their cables with all the bracketry in the way under the dash. There is also a need for a few notes that say which wiring needs to be unplugged and which hoses can stay in place. Also you need to be aware of the paper clip trick to remove the ignition switch and bezel. Turn key to ACC, insert paper clip into the little hole, continue turning CCW until the center section comes out. THEN you can remove the bezel and drop the switch. SO - first thing, disconnect the speedometer cable under the hood. Also disconnect the cruise control cable and remove the heater control cable on top of the heater box near the firewall. Then remove the transmission indicator needle and three nuts under the steering column to get it out of the way. I wrapped the column in cardboard for protection and shifted the transmission into L to get the shift handle out of the way. Make sure your car won't roll! I also made a stand to hold the column in place, since my seat was too far back to hold it. Then remove the headlight ****, the bezel, and push the switch back into the dash cavity. Do the same with the ignition switch. Loosen the bottom bracket bolts about 1/4" and remove the upper screws holding the panel in place and it will fall forward slightly. Unplug the wiper switch, the courtesy light switch, the cruise control wiring plug, and the rear fan wiring, if you have it. Push the wires back. Pull the panel forward from the top and unplug the clock and pop the bulb socket out. This is the point I removed the bottom bracket screws and freed the entire cluster panel. This then allows you to reach down and unplug the cluster wiring right and left. Using your guide dog fingers, find the screw holding the wiring harness onto the back of the panel, on the upper left side of the column opening. There might be two of these plastic loop holders on your harness. Unplug the light bulb at the cruise control wheel. Unplug the grey wire harness plug from the cluster. Pull the panel a little more towards you and you will be able to remove the cruise control wheel mounting screws (2) and then the heater/AC control panel screws (3). Unplug the heater/AC control wiring (two multi-wire connectors on the far left). You do not have to unplug the brown wires on the side of the heater control, nor the brown/green wire connector on the back. The vacuum hoses can stay in place on the left side and bottom. At this point the entire panel should be free and at some point you'll notice that the AC ductwork has slid off the back of the diffuser. Pull the panel out and treat yourself to something nice. Try not to think about the reinstallation you will have to do (not that I'm a pessimist)...


Column dropped onto bracket made of scrap wood - about 15” tall


Upper screws removed, lower bolts removed, panel resting on the column. You can reach most connections from here, but several are completely blind. All are 1/4” hex head.


Here you can see the disconnected speedo cable and one of the harness attaching loops on the back of the panel.



This is the underside of the heater/AC control, showing two of the attaching bolts (black, left center and slightly right center). There is one on the top side I accessed from the top while these could only be removed from underneath.



You do not have to disconnect these wires from the left side of the heater controls



I hung the heater controls from a zip tie to take the pressure off the control cable.


Not the greatest write up I’ve ever done - this was super frustrating to do by myself. It would have gone much faster with a second set of hands, at least for tool retrieval. It might also go better if the column were totally removed, but it did provide some support needed as I went in and out of the car. I don’t think I’ll be able to salvage the cruise control function as the cable barely moves and I’m not sure how to remove it from the car yet. I have a replacement heater control if I can figure out how to remove the old one. I also found one of the bracket bolts was driven right through a fat red wire, so I need to figure out what that goes to. The car has been apart a few times in the past, and this is what you find!!

 

Great writeup Bob! I wish I thought of removing the guts of the ignition switch as I just unplugged mine and I remember it being a pain in the butt. Using the paperclip trick would have saved me some hassles for sure. I will make sure I remember that for next time but least I don't have to deal with the cruise control on mine though! I remember I did the same as you with the AC controls.......I just pulled the screws holding that AC panel in and left it dangling. The bottom screws holding it to the instrument panel were a little tricky to get to but not terrible. Same goes for the re-install.

 

It will be a juggling act to get back together for sure. I did find a potential supplier for the pieces that fix the cruise control, and look what I found when the bottom bolts came out of the dash panel… think this could be the reason I have some electrical issues???

 

Yikes! Big fat red wire usually means high current positive voltage. Kinda scary but glad you found it! When I reinstalled my panel, I cut down a bunch of rubber vacuum caps that fit the self tapping screws and slipped them over the sharp ends. Maybe overkill but they're pretty sharp and very close to the wiring.

 

And the big fat red wire is the one powering the bottom left quadrant of my fuse panel, which includes the interior lights, brake lights, taillights - everything that doesn't currently work in my car... Hopefully over the next couple days I can get the rat's nest of wires sorted and reconfigured/wrapped so this can all go back together correctly and safely. At some point this dash cluster has been out (obviously since the radio is missing) to repair collision damage, since this appears to be a repaired or replacement steering column. Wiring is above and below the column with no rhyme or reason, and in various states of unwrap.

 

I’ve been stymied in my efforts to get to the fuse panel and do an actual trace of the power wire connected to the lower left quadrant. So today I made a brass fuse tap and connected it to the front left of the 30A fuse, then ran a wire directly to the passenger fender power block. Everything now works, from the interior lights to the taillight, brake, and blinkers. Would there be any harm in leaving this configuration permanently?

 

 

So, it seems you've created an electrical detour around whatever the actual problem is. As to leaving everything permanently as it is now, I think you have to be comfortable with now having two (2) hot ends, both of which could short out to ground with unknown consequences. Even if you disconnected the battery when the car is not in use, there's nothing to say something couldn't happen on the road. Personally, I think you've got to find and fix the initial problem.

That is true - technically there are two leads attaching to the same point, one on the back and one on the front. The problem is the one on the back has no power to it, and I am not able to get my hands into such a small area and find/trace that wire that should be coming out the top rear of the fuse panel, nor can I reach the upper bolt that holds the fuse panel to the firewall. Earlier in the thread I found a mounting bolt with a chunk of wire stuck to it, but I have not found a matching damaged wire, despite hours of searching. The gauge and color of that wire doesn't match the one I'm searching for, so that is a separate issue. When I hooked up the bypass/jumper wire, I half expected there to be a short somewhere, but there wasn't one, All of these circuits worked before I cleaned the turn signal switch, except for the right rear brake lights and blinker, which now work perfectly. If I knew where to find the 5-way shunt splice in the harness, that would be helpful. That's where the needed power wire initiates and then connects to the fuse panel. That wire is the issue.

 

Follow up, June 21... After tracing the wires with a friend under the hood while I was under the dash, loosening the fuse panel to see the back side better, the overall problem seems to be corrosion on the connection point at the lower left buss. The pink power wire feed is getting plenty of juice (l had been testing the incorrect connection point on the back side of the panel), and the slightest touch of the connection with a 12V tester point will turn on all the lights, etc. A slam of the door will turn them right off. I have ordered some corrosion remover called Deoxit which should be here today, and I'll apply it to the wire end and the buss to improve the connectivity there. If I find the rivet holding the tab to the buss is the problem, I may have to resort to the front connection in some way after figuring out how to either use or cap the factory power wire. I'm trying not to remove the power wire from the buss if I don't have to. The last thing I want to do is damage the fuse panel on the back side. I found the shunt splice to be in front of the firewall between the heater box and the brake booster - that had been a mystery to me. It's good to know that the power in is clean with no issues and that the culprit is a simple wire connection, but still a lot of work to get to and repair. Nothing is finished yet, so I'm knocking on wood that this is all that remains before reassembly.

 

Good news so far. I was able to pull the fuse panel out about an inch to access the back side, and using a mirror and a homemade q-tip applicator I applied Deoxit to the main power feed wire connection that was so corroded. I could also wiggle it slightly with bent needle nose pliers to work the liquid in and around the connection. After leaving it overnight, close inspection shows that the corrosion is gone and the male and female side of the terminal looks almost new. I hooked up the battery and all the lights work as they should. I have made continual trips to the garage over the past few hours, wiggling the connection and slamming the car doors to try and break the connection - as would happen previously - but it is holding strong. I believe my electrical issues at this particular point are behind me, and I’m going to begin the dash speaker replacement process next. Lots of work and frustration to be a simple corroded attaching point. Years and years of mice and their lack of hygiene have wreaked havoc behind this dash. One more step forward….


Best thing I’ve seen in months

 

Good Morning Everyone,
Thank you all for the great assist! I was able to get the instrument cluster out of my 1966 Toranado without issue. I pulled my climate control unit and cleaned and lubricated the rotary vacuum valve. Now all my control buttons work again!

Before I put it all back together, I want to check the maze of vacuum lines and connectors for leaks. I was wondering if any of you might know of a source for a color version of the complete vacuum system for it? I have a nice one for the headlights, but nothing for the rest. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.
And thanks again for all the helpful tips. You saved me a lot of grief.

 

I don't know of one that's premade, but looking through the assembly manual will show you several pages where the colors are called out on the hoses. It wouldn't be difficult to make your own color map with those and some colored markers. Glad you got your cluster out without issue! I'm about ready to start assembling mine and get this project FINISHED....

 

Good Morning,
Thanks for the reply. I'll try taking the manual to Staples to see if they can enlarge it a bit. My eyesight is not what it used to be. Then I'll try your colored marker suggestion. I like that Idea a lot!
Good luck with your reassembly!

 

Great job Bob - I did a dash removal on mine many years ago (and put a tilt column in while I was at it) and remember all that pain and suffering you went through. For me, the heater control cable was the big ah-ha. Couldn't add anything to your write-up either...well done! Also, glad you got your electrical issues solved but wondering, if you found the culprit with the bolt piercing the left quadrent power feed, why not splice a new section in on that wire and move on? Can you not find both ends? And following with interest your speaker removal job...should have done that years ago too as I'd love to send my spare AM-FM Wonderbar out to have the internals replaced with modern electronics.

 

I appreciate the kind words - and yes, the heater control piece was a huge help... As for the power wire issue, I finally determined that the wire wasn't the problem, just the end connection at the box. And I figured that out simply by hitting it with a 12V tester and watching the lights come on. Slam the door, the lights go off lol. Over and over. So I knew the connection point was the only problem. And visually seeing the crust on it using a mirror convinced me that a thorough clean and de-corrode was the answer. I still believe my earlier workaround using another wire connected to the front side would have been fine, although a bit janky. Thinking through it, and once I determined that there was no short anywhere, I was attaching two wires to the same source and running them to the same location. But I'm no electronics expert and torotoyguy was right, it's always best to find the real problem and alleviate that.

My speaker install is delayed until mid month, as I have a family trip to go on. It's nice to know, however, that when I get back, all the pieces I need to complete the job are here and ready to go. I received replacement AC ducting from Vintage Air yesterday, so I can replace the crusty, mouse-y, filthy original hoses. Once the old pieces are out, the speaker will simply be behind the center ductwork. I pray for wisdom and patience. Reassembly and installation of the full dash assembly will certainly tax every fiber of my being as I figure out how to reattach all those bolts I removed blindly... But once it's done? I'm going to throw a party.

 

And a well-deserved party it will be!

 

Progress post…. Remind me to never remove this dash again. Reinstalling the hoses and the wires has been ridiculously tedious. The main issue is trying to remember through notes and pictures what hose goes under/over which wire cluster, etc. It’s a complete puzzle that wants to go back together the same way it came apart. I took the dash out missing a radio, and now I’m installing WITH a radio, and that’s a challenge in itself. I also figured that it’s nearly impossible to approach the install with the heater and cruise controls attached to the face. It’s difficult, but more effective, to connect the heater hoses and wires and connect the cruise control to its cable, then attach them to the dash as it is put in place. I continually think that the whole process would have been easier with the steering column completely removed, however it has been a godsend as a support structure as I attach pieces and parts. So yesterday was several hours of inching closer and closer literally and figuratively. Today I hope to finish connecting the electricals and install the headlight and ignition switches. The radio is a tight squeeze, but only two wires there, plus the antenna cable, which I repaired yesterday. At that point I should be able to lift the cluster into place and attach the support bolts. Cross everything you’ve got.

 

I feel your pain my friend...been there, done that once and likely will do it again when the car comes back from the restorer sometime soon. As an aside, the radio can go in after the dash is in...and it's less weight to wrangle. I've had my radio out a couple of times without pulling the entire cluster.

 

That's good to know... The various manuals I have scattered about seem to say pull the cluster to drop the radio, so I assumed it needed to be in place for this exercise. I'm still blown away by the fact that there are TWO stereo radios for these cars - one for AC and one for non-AC, with the variance being the cable length to the differently-positioned multiplexer. Once I get this little part wrapped up, I'll have a non-AC stereo radio to sell...amongst other things. SO MANY crazy things I've learned about these cars over the past year.

 

Well, you taught me something as I didn't know there were different ones for the non-A/C cars. As for the non-stereo radio, I'll do some research and see if it's the same one for my '67 442. I have a mono AM-FM radio in it but the "FM" on the slide bar is gone, even though it works fine. It might be inside the radio or just flat-out outa here but if yours fits my car, I'd be interested.

 

I think you would have a difference in the face plate with the Toronado-specific angled design versus the flat face Cutlass and others - maybe they can be swapped without too much issue? I really find it hard to believe there were so many variations of radios for these cars.
And I found an extra "AM" in the bottom of my radio when I opened it up to clean - you never know what may be inside!

 

You're probably right and I agree, can't believe there were so many variations. I have an extra AM-FM Wonderbar stereo for the Toro...I should dig that out and see if it matches up with the 442.

 

Dash cluster is in after many, many curse words. Lights in and around the car work, so that’s a major plus. Several things still to connect and mount, like the multiplex unit, and I found the pretty courtesy light switch I installed is bad - so I hope I can change it out from the back side. Happy with the LED lights. It’s not that I’m seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, but I can see the tunnel. Getting there.

 

Looking good, real good - well worth all the sweat and tears, and cursing

 

Almost there. Radio tested and almost works. Front channel is dead. I’m not going to mess with it. Same old blower fan issue, where the Lo-Hi switch doesn’t get the fan moving. I hear the clink of the relay under the hood on Hi, but nothing goes. I still have a new blower resistor to install, so you never know. And I should recheck all the fuses. All the lights and blinkers work, which was what started this whole ordeal. At this point I’ll find a trusted mechanic if the blower switch doesn’t work and pay for the repairs. I’ve done all I can do. At the very least soon I’ll be able to get the car on the road legally and enjoy days with the windows down. And the clock works 😊

 

I believe the Custom AC on the '67 is similar to the '66 but I found that the manuals don't cover the air conditioning electrical system properly for some reason. You have to use the section in the manual from the 52-86 series to help guide you in troubleshooting.

Even then, it's not particularly helpful. The circuit breaker and the solenoid isn't depicted in a manner that makes any sense. Not to me anyway. I can't make heads or tails out of this diagram from my CSM:


What is this component??

Considering that you're hearing the relay click on high, it sounds like you have good power. It's very possible that you don't have a good ground on the blower housing. Check for power using a test light at the blower connector. You could try jumpering the blower case to a good known ground and see if it runs. Otherwise you could be looking at a new blower. You can change the blower without removing the hood, fender, etc.

 

The schematic is very helpful as I trace wires in the system. I see what you mean, though, in that a few of these pieces aren't exactly familiar... maybe by tracing the wires I will locate the various parts that don't seem to make sense here. If I remember back a number of months, I disconnected the power feed to the blower and connected it straight to the battery, and it ran fine. So getting the power to and through the relay seemed to be the issue. I have a new blower resistor (I hope it's the right one) that I will install today and see if that makes an immediate difference. I remember tracing the power through the various wires to the resistor before, and thought they were good at that time. I'll see what I find today. Thank you for this diagram - it really does help.

EDIT - I think the boxed item is the AC compressor
So the blower switch is the heater fan speed control. The resistor is the one under the hood on the heater box. But we should have a relay between the resistor and the blower motor, I believe. I have the service manual out and I'm digging through the wiring diagrams. I'm trying to cross reference with the assembly manual but there are several drawings that aren't specific enough with the connection points, which are critical for this circuit. I'm wondering if having the compressor out of the system at the moment is causing an issue...? The ground is still connected but the green power wires are not connected to anything. Lots to test when I get out there.

 

Got out the voltage tester and immediately found that the blower resistor was getting power, but not sending power. Removing that showed an old break and repair to the wiring which obviously didn't work. I replaced it with an NOS resistor and I now have the low three speeds for the blower fan, but Hi still just makes a *clunk* sound from the relay on the inner fender and does not work. I'm on my 3rd relay there, this one being an NOS GM piece. Not sure what to do in this case. Replace it again? Anyway, the fan is blowing, but I assume controls will not function (e.g. vent, defrost, other directional things) until the car is running and I actually have vacuum. I'm a few days from getting the carb back from a quick rebuild, so a full test will have to wait. I am not getting power to the defogger blower, so that still needs to be chased down, but I'm much happier knowing the electrical connections survived my dash project and I actually improved over what I had before.

 

You're definitely making good headway, so revel in that! On mine, I have to sort of get between the 3rd and 4th notches on the blower switch to get high speed, so check your switch on the controls themselves - it may be wonky like mine was. And yes, you'll need vacuum to know if all the control doors are operating correctly to verify the rest of the system, but man, you're 95% there!

 

Quick update as I slog along... So I replaced the blower resistor on the fan, and I just replaced the relay on the passenger fender once again with an NOS piece - no change. I have three low speeds on the fan (which blow nicely) but when I turn the switch to HI, I just hear a *clunk* from the relay and the blower does not run. Is there some kind of failsafe on the blower motor that would keep it from running at hi speed? The blower motor (which runs quietly and well) just will not take a HI speed current from the switch, though it will take a direct connection to the battery. This is my second fan switch, fourth relay, and third blower resistor (currently the resistor and relay are NOS), and there is zero change to the operation of the blower. I hesitate to change out the blower as I at least have three good speeds, but knowledge of what may be happening would be helpful.

Other oddities - the electrical problem that started all of this - the cutting of power to the lower left quadrant of the fuse panel / no power to the "always on" brake light and interior light circuit - still rears its ugly head intermittently. The last time it happened some jiggling of the headlight switch (NOS) triggered it back on. I've also had luck jiggling the driver's door plunger switch, and putting pressure on the lower left fuse as well. All the connections are clean, but it seems the slightest interruption of the electric flow will kill the circuit. No fuses are ever blown. It has to be corrosion issues on the back side of the fuse panel, which I do not care to replace. Any thoughts here are welcome as well.

The vacuum doors on the AC system do not work at all. I have defrost air only. The vacuum tanks all seem fine and the entire system will hold vacuum for hours after shutting down. But no vents will function. I'm almost thinking that the barn/mouse infestation combined with age has "glued" the rubber seals shut and they need to be manually opened and closed to get them freed. Other than complete disassembly, I'm not sure how else to get them to move. Any suggestions here are welcome for sure.

That's it for now. Trying to do some touch up paint work today and install some electric outlets for phone and GPS use today. The car is running and as shiny as this old paint will let it be, and it seems reliable enough to fire up and drive almost anywhere. I'll keep putting miles on it through the fall and making improvements where and as I can.

 

Very strange. It would certainly help if there was a wiring reference for that HI Blower Relay but I checked the '66 and '67 manuals and they don't show it anywhere. It's not depicted in the 52-86 series section in the '67 manual either? It would be nice to actually know how this system operates the hi fan. Maybe the "Master Switch" in the schematic is actually referring to the Hi Blower Relay??

Doesn't really make a lot of sense though as your hearing the Hi Blower relay click so it sounds like you have good control. How's the output from the solenoid? Checked with a test light? Obviously you've changed out the relay enough that it's most likely not the problem but how's the wiring from the solenoid to the fan?