Hey everyone, just looking for some advice. My sister borrowed my 1964 Jetstarr 88 for the night, and I am not sure what exactly happened, but she overheated her and completely blew the engine. Even melted the weld on the radiator cap until the whole assembly blew off. Ridiculous...

Anyway, I had it towed to my mechanic ( who works a lot with old Chevys and Oldsmobiles, 3 of his other customers have early 60s Olds as well) and he told me what I knew, the engine was kaput. But his reccomendation was that we start looking for a Rocket 350 to replace the 330 in her now.

So basically, I am just looking for advice on the pros/cons of this and what kind of estimates I can expect to replace with a new 350, or a refurb Rocket 350? The last engine I replaced was on a 79 VW bus, and obvs that was a much different experience haha.. So any thoughts, advice, opinions are welcome please!

 

What are your concerns? What overall condition is this car in? Is it a show queen or a driver? What would you like from the next engine? Are you concerned about keeping the original block which is (?) numbers matching for the car? If so have the 330 rebuilt maybe adding in some small performance upgrades. That way it will all bolt right back up good as new. Of course that depends on how "blown" it is. Did it simply lock up or did you toss rods out of the side of the block? I would disassemble and inspect if you don’t see outward damage. If you’re not concerned about the numbers and its totally shot then sure go for a newer 350. Now you need to find a good rebuilt 350 or have one rebuilt. I'd pull the 330 apart first and see how bad it is then decide. Not being 100% familiar with the Jet Star I’m not sure what else would need to be changed for the swap to work. I think it is a bolt in swap. The exhaust manifolds may work though not sure they will flow well on a 350? The trans should bolt up. Think about rebuilding that too if the engines out and it has high miles, now’s the time to do it. If you decide on a 350 and the 330s not scrap keep it somewhere safe & dry should you or the next owner decide to rebuild it someday.

 

The 350 should bolt right in & all the accessories should transfer over. I would imagine your mechanic suggested a 350 over a 330 because they are more readily available.

 

You'll need to retain the water pump and timing tab from your original '64 engine. The '65-newer ones are different.

 

My car is in gorgoues shape, 120k original miles and until now everything still factory. Despite her gorgeous condition, she is my semi-daily driver, not a show car. I am not really concerned about matching #s or maitaning the original factory parts. Pretty much I just want to make sure she has a good strong engine to keep her my driver for some years yet.

I used the word "blown" because of how the radiator cap and its housing melted and then blew like a top. When I got there, there was coolant and oil everywhere, and white smoke pouring from the block and the tailpipe. But def didnt see the rod out. My mechanic called and said he found "metal on the oil dipstick" which I don't know what that means.

I guess I am not 'conernced' as much as I am looking for advice/opinions. Mostly about getting car back on the road in the most cost effective manner with whatever will be the most reliable motor. I have $ set aside for the repair, but not a ton so I really have no desire to go with the absolute most expensive option just in the name of maintaining orginality or show quality conditions. Until now, all my experience with classic cars has been old air-cooled VWs and they are a different ballgame altogether! haha

 

He's a lesson everyone, never lend your car to ANYONE, if they dont understand, it's because they dont own a muscle car.

Sorry this had to happen to you.

 

that was his biggest point I think, yes.

 

I normally am so against anyone touching my cars, this one time I broke down and let her. Where she screwed me was after taking the car the 5 miles to work like I okayed, the idiot decided to drive 50 miles to Boston to hang out with her friends, all while I was camping. Needless to say, I flipped out on her. Big time. The beautiful car was on the side of the damn highway 40 miles away when she decided to let me know....

 

People have been murdered for less.

And justifiably.

- Eric

 

I have a virgin 330 block if needed. No crank though. But those motors are tough. I bet shes rebuildable

 

PM sent.

 

Thank God i dont have siblings.

That's really horrible, my condolences again.

In any case, i never let people drive my car, the usual comment i get is:

"Want me to show you how to drive a real car"

"no thanks buddy, get back in your civic and run along to mommy"

 

hahahaha, good one. hahaha

 

I won't even let my wife drive my 64 Cutlass.That's why I bought her a 64 Cutlass Conv. of her own.Now she doesn't bother me.Well,except to ask when I am going to restore it for her.

 

Back to the original question - the 330 and 350 are externally identical, so unless you care about casting numbers the 350 will be easier to find. Transfer the water pump, accessory brackets, pulleys, and timing tab from the 330 to the 350. You will also need to remark the TDC mark on the balancer since the 1964 motors use a different timing tab location than the 1965-1990 motors. You will need the flexplate that goes with the 350, since the crank flange bolt pattern on the 1964-67 motors is different from that on the 1968-90 motors. Use the exhaust manifolds and motor mounts from the 330. Use the intake, carb, and valve covers from the 330 if you care about appearance. This is a bolt-in.

 

Joe, I was hoping you’d pipe up on the compatibility’s TX.

Bottom line is I would tear the original engine down and inspect. You’d be surprised how durable these engines are. You might get away with a simple rebuild?

Is it locked up tight or does it still rotate? That will clue you in as to how bad it is.

What was the root cause of the failure? Low oil, low coolant, blown radiator hose, Sister driving 100mph?

So will she be able to borrow the car again after the repair??? Hope she toss you a few good faith Benjamin’s to assist with the repair.

 

I have no idea what caused it. I had just performed my Friday morning ritual of checking all fluids, tire pressure, belts, hoses etc etc etc.....A habit I got into with my old VWs.....when I went camping and less than 12 hours later it was on the side of the road blown. During my check, everything was fine. No leaks. Everything running like a top. So I have no clue how she did it. That is part of the mystery.

She is siezed up tight. When I got there, there was coolant, oil, and fuel sprayed all over the whole engine compartment and the road, and leaking from every damn corner. white smoke was pouring from the block and from the tailpipe. I have never really seen anything like that before..

Thank you everybody for all the advice/commentary/opinions. I am supposed to meet my mechanic tonight to go over everything, see what he thinks happened, and what we should do from this point forward. I will be sure to post what he said and see what you guys think..And no, she isnt allowed near anything I own that costs more than 100 bucks ever again.

 

I'm not following why the timing tab needs to be swapped over and the ballancer marked if he's switching to a newer 350...are you suggesting it for mere cosmetic reasons? I'm not familiar with the 330's so forgive my question.

 

Actually if you just want an engine for a driver a 307 would probably be much easier to find. I know it would be a dog for power, but it would be another direct bolt in.

 

Well Im sure everyone would be interested if you ever do discover why (or why you think) it failed.

 

It is possible that it blew a head gasket and has hydrostatic lock. Just to be sure, I would pull the plugs and see if it cranks over. Like others stated, these things are pretty tough.

 

Steve, the water pump on the 330 is "backwards," pointing to the left instead of the right, with the lower radiator hose attaching on the left side of the radiator.

Because of this, the water pump inlet is right over where the timing tab and marks are on the newer engines, so if he wanted to use his original water pump (and radiator, and brackets), he would have to re-mark it on the right side, so he could see it.

- Eric

 

And that folks is what this site is all about...thanks Eric! I learned me sumthin new taday!

 

I'll second this. I blew a head gasket in the silver car a couple months back. The car started running hot so I parked it. While it was parked (unbeknownst to me) the #8 cylinder filled with water and when I went to start it back up it wouldn't turn over. Pulled the plugs and it turned over fine, spitting water out of the #8 cylinder.

Replaced the head gaskets with better ones and now it runs better than it ever did

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Fac...5ca0d6&vxp=mtr

shows a 64 330 WPump. LH inlet. Thus the timing apparatus is on the engine's RH side.

All the notes above are correct. I would add two things:
1) might be just a smoked crank, get by with dismantle, clean, grind the crank, new bearings. Mitaswell all seals and freeze plugs. Period, stop there.

2) if it threw a rod, and a 350 is an option, why not a 403? Externally identical. I -love- the torque of the 403 in my '85 442... High compression [your 330 heads or better yet 1966+ ones with a friendlier valvetrain]... HEI... great throttle response.

oh ps I have a 64 Jetstar 88 for parts. Engine still untouched... if you need bits n pieces.

Are you aware the rear axle is ONE YEAR and ONE MODEL only?

 

I have a 65 330 80k miles and a set of doug headers. old carb and a holly on it now. I have a ls I am going to put in it... make offer.

 

Thanks, Steve.

I was away from my computer before, but here's a pic from the CSM:



You can see the timing pointer and the water pump pipe clearly.

- Eric

 

Yes thats a good possibility. Part of tearing it apart in prep for a rebuild is always to try and discover the reason for failure. Pull the plugs and give it a try great suggestion. Also drain the oil look at the debris. Cut the filter open etc...Depending on what you find will determine the scope of the repair.
IMO with the age and miles Id yank it and rebuild it. Id sure want to inspect the rotating assembly vs R&R a head and slapping it back together...but thats just my way and not necessarily the only way.

 

Put a 455 in there

 

I'll go ahead and chime in since i dont see a64Pilot online yet,

Then you'll be able to post your sound in the BBO Sounds thread.

 

Location would help I would think.

If you go the used route try to find one you can hear run before you pick it up. If it runs do a compression check. Either way, pull the oil pan & valve covers & take a look around. Before you drop it in think about a new timing chain. If it still has the nylon one you'll want it gone.

 

X2 on the timing chain and gears - don't wanna go through all this again!!

 

Hehe, hehe...I'll keep my mouth shut

Ok, maybe not...Dude, 455 all the way! It will cost the same to build one as it would to build the other

 

My Next cutlass is going to have a 455 4bbl with a dual gate shifter.

Only reason i'm keeping mine the way it is is because it's all factory numbers matching. And well... it gives me an excuse to buy another someday

 

You can never have too many 455's lol! I have 2 and I STILL want another car just so I can build another one that's even more powerful!

 

Soon as i buy a house (Hopefully in the next 24 months), i'm pulling out my 350 and rebuilding it.

Problem is, there's really no reputable "Olds" engine builders around here, so i'll end up doing it myself. Not sure what i'm getting myself into....

 

My point is that it may only need new head gaskets. The OP never stated the mileage, at least not that I saw. Those heads and blocks don't usually warp or crack. I would pull the plugs and see.
P.S., is this forum or a chat room??

 

Well the tricks to an Olds engine can be relayed to any good machinist, the rest is all the same. As long as they are using quality machining equipment and know how to clean, inspect, machine, and prepare the engine you should have no problem.

I don't know how to machine anything, I'm not a machinist. But I do the 'tricks' before I take the block in (deburring block, smoothing oil passages, etc). From there it's up to the machinist to bore it and get all the clearances right.

Nickens Racing engines has officially done 2 Olds 455's. Both of mine. But their experience with other types of engines speaks for itself. My reasoning was that if they can get pro-stock engines right then they ought to be able to follow directions and do an Olds 455 right...and they did.

 

FYI I saw a 330 for sale on one of the NE craigslists yesterday most likely NH any MA ones or CT

 

Actually, you have plenty of options, with an LS conversion being one of them. For that to be easier, World Products Motown crossbreed block, that's LS induction on top and Chevy Gen I SB below, would probably be worth looking into. If you do go 307 Olds, early 80's 442's, make decent power.