swap meet 350 build.
February 26th, 2012, 01:18 PM
#1
swap meet 350 build.
Okay guys just scored a 350 olds with .030 pistons forged speedpro's for 500. The good it's balanced has forged pistons and it ran at some point. The bad. The crank is hurt when it was rebuilt the skimped on the cleaning and i think junk got out of the oil passages and scored the bearings up and journarls as well. The pistons are in good shape. Im going to tear it down and take the crank to my machinist have him see if it's salvageable if not i got spares and it will have to be re balanced. The cylinder walls still have the crosshatching marks on it and no ridges at all. so im tinking if i can make this work with the price of parts and maching the goal is to have this perfect for around 1000. i already have a cam and lifter kit., and im selling the pistons i was going to use for a 425 piston combo 350 to offset any cost's. The goal here is budget i need to tear it apart and do some further inspection all i pulled was 2 rod caps. didnt pull a main cap. Im trying to prove budget builds can be done right and cheap which is what someone tried to do on this one but failed. picture to come soon.
Last edited by coppercutlass; March 4th, 2012 at 10:55 AM.
February 26th, 2012, 02:34 PM
#3
it's getting all new bearings rings etc. Not gonna cheap out on that plus im cleaning the block so it"s all coming apart. Im going to have the rods checked and all that suff. If it does not need to be rebalanced and i can save the crank i will save 200 right there. Plus not having to bore an engine thats another 250 saved. I am going to have it honed just to clean things up just a few passes.
February 27th, 2012, 05:11 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: bowman, north dakota
Posts: 280
no biggie, just thought i'd ask as i have a 425 build in the planning stages... although after reading the posts about the ram rod program i'm second guessing myself... i may just have to put together a stout little 350.
February 27th, 2012, 07:05 PM
#8
Ok i finally tore the engine down. First thing i noticed it had a wiped out lobe . I also noticed an un necessary use of silicone on parts i normally wouldn't., Like the oil pump pick up it was a bolt on type and it had a high volume unit which i dont like to use the used silicone to seal it and the had silicone on the rear main cap and it got on the bolts. From the looks of it the rod bearings were probably chewed up from shavings from the cam failing and the oil passages being very rough. They where standard size so i think it should be able to be ground down and we should be good. The main journals were all in good shape probably a polish and shoudl be good. The pistons where all in good shape and still had their coating no major scuffs. The only issue i had was two rod pins seemed a bit tight in movement so im going to have them checked . The rods looked like they where reconditioned and i saw the drill marks on the crank so it has been balanced but im going to have it checked. Up to this point i have 500 in this short block im going to use a cam and lifter set i bought for 150 that is from lunati new in box. and parts from summit are looking to be 365 . That alone is 1015 dollars. I realize my goal of 1000 is a bit unrealistic at this point ., But to have a reliable forged piston .030 350 sbo for roughly 1500 is still good . I still have to sell some stuff i have around here to offset cost's but it's looking to be in the 1500 range im estimating machining in around 300-500 dollars so far so good.
March 2nd, 2012, 05:29 PM
#10
so far i got the crank cleaned up and everything is standard so should be able to cut the crank. Im going to send everything to the machine shop to check the balance, rods, block etc. So far it looks like its good., pistons where in good shape rods looked like they where re conditioned . looking to send everything out next week .
March 3rd, 2012, 12:38 PM
#13
My dad works for redi strip co. so i do all my cleaning there they completely submerge the block in a non etching fromula that cleans it in and out then it gets washed which at that time i go ahead and flush out all the oil passages etc. then it get's dipped into a anti corrosion formula bath.
March 3rd, 2012, 12:52 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 473
Gotta say i love your builds. Anyone can build a mean motor by throwing enough money at it but i love how youre keeping true hotrodding alive. The idea that cheap = weak and strong = expensive is only a half truth. Yes there are certain places that by no means should be skimped on (as proven by the last owner of your 350) but there are many places that can be done very well for very cheap and still be very durable. Im going to be doing something very similar when i get around to building my 455. I love budget builds, it just goes to show you dont have to have deep pockets to have fun. Kudos! I'll be watching this thread 
April 30th, 2012, 05:35 PM
#15
im re earthing this thread. I just dropped off the crank, rods and pistons , flex plate and balancer at the machine shop. The machinist said he maybe be able to polish out the gouges from the shavings and i might just have to get +001 bearings . Im having the balance checked. The block i currently submerged in the hot tank and my dads shop. I will hone it my self and the shop is going to r&r the cam bearings. Should know what the final total will be by then.
April 30th, 2012, 08:52 PM
#16
make sure the shop hones the cyl walls to give you at least .004 wall clearance, I use .005 on a performance engine.
If the shop is going to R & R the pistons make sure they hone the wrist pin holes to give you .001 clearance.
You should have measured the deck height to figure the compression. Also have them deck the block to make sure it is straight.
I take off .020 off the block and .020 off the heads to make up for the thick Fel-Pro head gasket.
Gene
If the shop is going to R & R the pistons make sure they hone the wrist pin holes to give you .001 clearance.
You should have measured the deck height to figure the compression. Also have them deck the block to make sure it is straight.
I take off .020 off the block and .020 off the heads to make up for the thick Fel-Pro head gasket.
Gene
June 13th, 2012, 11:31 PM
#17
Ok guys update here. The machine shop finally got around to gettig to my stuff ot that im in a rush. But the crank got turned .020 on the rods .010 on the mains. I finally ordered all my parts. I decided to go with a howards cam 512/512 lift with 227/233 duration @ .050 lift and on a 110 lobe sep. Im going with king bearings, speed pro rings, mr gasket gaskets, a new standard volume oil pump, new timing chain, cam bearings etc. so far the machining and balancing for the rotating assembly is going to set me back 400 and parts 550, and boring and installing new cam bearings 300, plus 500 for the initial shortblock and 150 for the short block that donated its block for my combo. So i should have a pretty stout shortblock for under or around 2k Still not too bad imo. This one will be built very tediously and every thing will get check ad measure to make sure it last a long time. I still have not torn down my current 350 which i suspect spun a rod bearing this weeked im stuffing a good running 307 and tearing down the hurt 350.
June 14th, 2012, 09:00 AM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 204
Nice update. Your build is pretty similar to mine. My heads are at the machine shop now. Thanks for sharing your progress. I had to double my original budget, but it should still be lower budget.
June 14th, 2012, 10:28 AM
#21
I already have invested 1500 in my whole top end. that heads w/ big valves bigger springs bowl work etc. all new valve train components, milling the intake to fit my heads. so thats 3500 total. The heads are carrying over from my previous build. It will hopefully hit the 12's with this set up my last one should have hit 12's but i never got it to the track after adding a new converter and carb.
June 14th, 2012, 01:09 PM
#24
@ retro ranger this 307 is staying in all summer lol. I youtube how fast they ran stock in the 1/4 mile. Fastest I saw was 15.76 and that's with a full tilt car. My car is gutted I'm running headers, 3.90 gears. As much of a joke as this sounds if I can crack a 15.00 to 14.95 I'll just about crap my pants. I figure it should be fun pushing the little 307 to it's limits.
June 14th, 2012, 05:44 PM
#25
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,911
Guys have ran mid 15's mostly stock, with 5A 307 HO Hurst/Olds and 442's. I know one non 442 running 15.2's, close to stock, mild cam and Sanderson's. Mid 14's on the computer has been done. I am hoping to pick up a 87 442, maximize the swirl port turd with bolt on's, 15 flat would be cool. Then build my 424 ci stroker and really kick but. No more exploding 7.5" rears.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; June 14th, 2012 at 05:47 PM.
June 15th, 2012, 01:26 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,399
make sure the shop hones the cyl walls to give you at least .004 wall clearance, I use .005 on a performance engine.
If the shop is going to R & R the pistons make sure they hone the wrist pin holes to give you .001 clearance.
You should have measured the deck height to figure the compression. Also have them deck the block to make sure it is straight.
I take off .020 off the block and .020 off the heads to make up for the thick Fel-Pro head gasket.
Gene
If the shop is going to R & R the pistons make sure they hone the wrist pin holes to give you .001 clearance.
You should have measured the deck height to figure the compression. Also have them deck the block to make sure it is straight.
I take off .020 off the block and .020 off the heads to make up for the thick Fel-Pro head gasket.
Gene
June 15th, 2012, 07:56 PM
#27
I still don't know what is wrong with my old set up I can't wait to tear it down. It was my first real hp engine.I built by my self. I will tear that apart and post up what I find. BTW joe what do you think of the cam I picked out.
June 16th, 2012, 03:24 AM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,399
Also, pre-assemble your engine and check all of the clearances.
June 16th, 2012, 07:02 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,399
Ok guys update here. The machine shop finally got around to gettig to my stuff ot that im in a rush. But the crank got turned .020 on the rods .010 on the mains. I finally ordered all my parts. I decided to go with a howards cam 512/512 lift with 227/233 duration @ .050 lift and on a 110 lobe sep. Im going with king bearings, speed pro rings, mr gasket gaskets, a new standard volume oil pump, new timing chain, cam bearings etc. so far the machining and balancing for the rotating assembly is going to set me back 400 and parts 550, and boring and installing new cam bearings 300, plus 500 for the initial shortblock and 150 for the short block that donated its block for my combo. So i should have a pretty stout shortblock for under or around 2k Still not too bad imo. This one will be built very tediously and every thing will get check ad measure to make sure it last a long time. I still have not torn down my current 350 which i suspect spun a rod bearing this weeked im stuffing a good running 307 and tearing down the hurt 350.
June 16th, 2012, 09:18 PM
#33
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 370
Those pistons can look new on top before you even remove them by just spraying that Super Tech Wal-Mart brand Carb spray on them a little at a time and let set for about 30 seconds and wipe with a paper towel.
I use that stuff to clean everything, it's cheap and it works.
You might want to go ahead and buy some ARP head studs or atleast bolts and ARP Main bolts, so you don't have to have the block's main bores align honed as you would if you went with main studs.
Don't buy a cheap main girdle off ebay, if you go that route, get a five main one from J&S Machine, you'll have to get the mains aligned honed because it uses studs instead of bolts but I could never understand why someone couldn't just use good ARP bolts because the main caps get milled the thickness of the girdle. Ask Jim if you could do that if you are wanting to avoid the cost of studs and align honing the mains but you will still have to get the main caps milled, which is about $60 or atleast that's what they use to cost.
You might want to think about using good head gaskets if you plan to spray the motor, it's cheap insurance.
You can buy just a 7 quart pan oil pickup and add that to a pump you already have and make your own oil pan if you can weld for less than $20 bucks.
Search BTR Olds S71 on youtube, good assembling videos you can watch.
I use that stuff to clean everything, it's cheap and it works.
You might want to go ahead and buy some ARP head studs or atleast bolts and ARP Main bolts, so you don't have to have the block's main bores align honed as you would if you went with main studs.
Don't buy a cheap main girdle off ebay, if you go that route, get a five main one from J&S Machine, you'll have to get the mains aligned honed because it uses studs instead of bolts but I could never understand why someone couldn't just use good ARP bolts because the main caps get milled the thickness of the girdle. Ask Jim if you could do that if you are wanting to avoid the cost of studs and align honing the mains but you will still have to get the main caps milled, which is about $60 or atleast that's what they use to cost.
You might want to think about using good head gaskets if you plan to spray the motor, it's cheap insurance.
You can buy just a 7 quart pan oil pickup and add that to a pump you already have and make your own oil pan if you can weld for less than $20 bucks.
Search BTR Olds S71 on youtube, good assembling videos you can watch.
June 16th, 2012, 10:17 PM
#34
I am fabing up my own extra capacity oil pan with the bottom of a 5qt pan on my current 6qt pan. As far as the extra bottom end support i dont feell it's needed just yet im not gonna spary it after much thought .
June 17th, 2012, 05:15 AM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
I already have invested 1500 in my whole top end. that heads w/ big valves bigger springs bowl work etc. all new valve train components, milling the intake to fit my heads. so thats 3500 total. The heads are carrying over from my previous build. It will hopefully hit the 12's with this set up my last one should have hit 12's but i never got it to the track after adding a new converter and carb.
Couple of minor comments. Every Speed-Pro pistonned engine I have done had the pistons down .024 +/-. Do a .015 clean-up cut and use a .028 Corteco gasket ($50/pair) and you are right at .040. Quench area is small on a 350, but larger with the flat tops so, IMO is worth getting right.
IMO, no need for a girdle on a 350 unless you are going nuts with a power adder.
Also, IMO, no need for head studs, they make removing the head in the car difficult. I do get new ARP head, main, and rod bolts, cheap insurance, IMO.
June 17th, 2012, 06:47 AM
#36
I understand where you are coming from. This is a budget build but im doing everything correct. Im taking my time and im soending money where it"s needed. The last budget build failed but i was also suppoused to take it out after one season. Im doing everything i can to make sure this engine lives. Used parts dont alwyas mea bad which is why they got sent to the machine shop.
June 20th, 2012, 11:50 PM
#37
btw guys I found my issue with my budget build. The crankshaft bent i belive. The number 2 rod bearing was beat to hell but did not spin. The number 4 main was wiped out and the very back edge of the number 5 main was toast, it also had 3 cracked piston skirts on the number 5 7 and 8 pistons. This is what i was told by one of my local olds racers just by what i described on the phone to him. I had no issues till i got the new converter went from 2200 stall possibly lower to a 3000 stall. I think the shock of the power at 3000 rpm might have wiped stuff out but thats my thoughts on it . I know i didnt have choice parts but i think this is something that could have happened to anyone regardless of budget or not all the other bearings where in good shape. I do have pics of it on the thread [the little engine that could finally died] on the performance section. Any input would be of help as id like to know why it failed best way to learn is from mistakes but i think strength vs stress might have been my culprit.
July 15th, 2012, 03:01 PM
#38
Ok guys so the machine shop is taking their sweet time., but i did tell em i was in no rush really . It gives me more time to build up my parts. I have now decided to go with main studs and windage tray, oil pan,pump studs and oil pan baffle, Im also going with new arp head bolts. solid motor mounts too. So this add's roughly 400 dollars to my roughly 600 dollar parts bill. So so far i have 500 in the initial shortblock with .030 pistons, then 150 for the spare block, then 1000 in parts and 400 for thr machining and balancing on the roating assy. then about 350 for the block work. so 2400 roughly migth change for the shortblock and 1500 in the top end which i did last year . thats 3900. still not too bad i think.
