Jharken

Going to put this together after the holidays.

The build looks like this
68 350 30 over Probe forged pistons 1/16,3/16 rings standard tension gaped for NA use.Stock rods reconditioned.
#5 2.07-1.71 heads full ported flow #'s not sure on what bore size?

.100 ..70 61
.200 144 123
.300 196 151
.400 228 191
.500 250 213
.600 260 225

Harland's 1.6 rockers.
9.7:1 CR measured.
750 4779 carb.
RPM intake.
Cam spec's are
Bullet solid flat tappet NF72 .016 lash 275/275 .050 247/247 158@.200 .550/.550 net lift.106/106.
I think peak hp should be about 6200rpm.
1 3/4 headers.
3.90 gear th-350 tran
27" 10.5 ET street tire.
3800 JW 10" converter.Flashes well into the 4200 plus range.
Car is a 68 cutlass supreme weight is 3740lbs with me in it or 3520lbs car only.


Any guesses on HP or ET with this?

Thanks in advance
Jim

captjim

Looks like a well thought out combo. 12.24 in the 1/4. It would be a screamer in a lighter car with more gear.

tonycpe

My machine shop informed me last week that those .030 probes are on back order for 6-8 weeks
He is machining my motor for those same pistons. wish I could get them with out valve reliefs.
Our builds are very similar.
I am hoping for a little more compression.
Running a comp cam xe294h.
This past summer I ran 12.20's with stock bore flat tops and a slightly smaller cam a lunati 318A4
Of course i only way 2920 lbs.
I had bad ring seal at high rpm , hence the rebore .

Jharken

I picked the probes up on www.flatlanderracing.com about a year and a half ago.

tonycpe: I have you're peak power with a iron head and xe294h at 6750rpm or so that is up there considering you should shift above that.

I think that cam would go good with nitrous.

That bullet solid I'm using if you were to compare to a hydraulic it would be about a 239/239

I needed all the torque I could get so that's why lobes are the same and the 106Lsa.

I will dyno this before I race it for sure.

Thanks for the reply
Jim

tonycpe

Thanks J for that info
May be a tat more rpm than i want.
I think i'll start a thread when i get my block back and know my exact comp. ratio and other details.
Maybe i should go solid cam like you.
I also like to hear what captjim and a few other guys on this board have to say.
J , where are you located?
Thanks, tony

Jharken

Tony I'm from the great state of Minnesota twin cities.I run into Bill Sullivan at car shows and at the track in Wisconsin, Rock falls. He's a real nice guy his car runs the # also.
I would for sure go with a single plane intake with that xe294.

cutlassefi

What are your goals?

HWYSTR455

I'll take a shot: 425hp @ 5500, 12.50s depending on tune.

I think with a different cam selection you would do better, say something with more LSA, and a split-pattern favoring the exhaust, but would most likely be a custom at that point. (not a big deal).

Example: 242/252 @.050, 112 LSA, 108 ICL, .550/.550 solid.

or

244/254 @.050, 112 LSA, 106 ICL, .550/.550 solid.

You'll pick up 20+ from 4000 rpm up, right around where your converter is hitting. Could see a 35+ hp total gain, especially with a single plane. Pointless to go beyond 6250 rpm with your heads and intake, so shoot for something that makes most power below that.

You could call Crower, they turn around custom grinds quick, faster than Comp. A few days is all it takes.

.

cutlassefi

Or I can grind you an Erson as well. If your heads are good you might want to try a bit more lift.

Jharken

Jharken
I originally was going to go with a slight reverse split less duration on the exhaust.

With about 85% intake to exhaust ratio that is why I went with a single pattern. Why crutch a good flowing exhaust valve with duration unless I spray?

The 106 lsa is to help mid range torque Like after shifts.

Well thanks for the replies and keep em coming. This should be a fun project and I love a good challenge.

I'm thinking 425hp and 12.30et or better I hope.

HWYSTR455

Well, I wouldn't call 213 @ .500 a good flowing exhaust! And don't think anything over .550 - .575 lift is going to help either, probably hurt port velocity actually. I've seen more lsa cams do better than a number of the typical 'old school race grinds' too. Maybe Sim/model it, give you some more ideas.

As for spray, as SOP, I generally setup everything capable of spraying! Heh-heh!

I think you're pretty much right on target with your goals, sounds like you'll have fun with it!

.

tonycpe

thx J, Yes on the single plane intake .
I just happened to pm Bill Sullivan last week to ask about his alternator turn buckle as i won't be able to use my stock top mount with a single plane.
Looks like i'll be making a turn buckle for myself.

tonycpe

Goal is high 11.00's. I put this car together in 1968.
My money has never allowed me to get it to run as fast as i would like and i'm not getting any younger.

http://s259.photobucket.com/albums/hh315/tonycpe/

I wasn't sure what you meant by goals.
If i live long enough i would like to back half it.
Thanks , Tony

HWYSTR455

High 11s should be no problem, 50hp should do it. Cleaning up the bottom end and good seal should get a bit of that. Could probably get a few by doctoring the intake too. Bet you could get a couple with a forward facing scoop too, if you want to go that far.

What heads are you running out of curiousity?

Sweet ride by the way!

.

Jharken

Well got it together finally and here are the dyno numbers.
429hp 6100rpm
425tq 4600rpm

The cam degree in at 101.5 ICL

9.7 was the true comp.

VolEff avr 107%

On 91 octane 33 total timing

Very happy for sure.

HWYSTR455

That's great! And the VE numbers are super! Sure you're happy with that!

.

Jharken

The motor still had over 1 inch of vac at full throttle so a 850 at the track will be tried. Combo Ran Mid twelves on meter with massive converter slip.

Jharken

I just got around to posting dyno sheet.

380 Racer

Nice numbers!

Jharken

My buddy Steve Hammer Said you don't want to race this guy and it was you 380 racer LOL.

cutlassefi

Nice build J. If you ever start thinking about changing the cam give me a shout, I have a few ideas.

Good luck!!

380 Racer

LOL.....a terror I'm not

Jharken

I was going to make it a dyno Queen and cam for peak hp.Then my sensible side said cam the car for set up.

Mark what would you have grind?
What would you think would be the choke point for rpm?
The motor wanted all the tightening of lash I could give it.
Jim

gearheads78

Sounds like a killer combo. Need to drop it in a light g-body and turn it loose.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=cutlassefi;345985]If it wanted lash then the cam is too big or the lobe sep is too tight.
I would come back on the exhaust and spread it out a little. 9.8:1 ain't much compression.

Jharken

[QUOTE=cutlassefi;345988]
My bad

Dyno sheet was lash tightened to .013

lashed At .019 it was down 8 hp and peak was 5700rpm.also torque was up 1.

cutlassefi

[QUOTE=Jharken;346018]On both? If so that tells me it wants more duration and it's probably pretty fast ramped. Needs more off the seat time, but I'd still spread it a little.

Jharken

[QUOTE=cutlassefi;346032]Yes both sides were tightened.
I ran out of time on the dyno made 18 pulls total.

Also had 6"of vac at idle so no power brakes here.

But sounds just awesome.

cutlassefi

Depends on what you're looking for. When you loosen the lash you will make more torque sooner (more cylinder pressure) but lose upper end hp(less flow).
Seeing as how you have a 80% or better exhaust to intake ratio, I'd either do a little more intake duration or less exhaust duration and widen it just a little, 107-108. In theory that would give you more midrange tq and maybe even a little more upper end hp. Did you ever try changing just the exhaust or just the intake lash? That would have been interesting to see.
Remember, take 12-15 degrees off of a solid to equal the same for a hyd. So in essence you have about a 232-235@.050 hyd flat tappet in it. Ask yourself, is that too much or too little for a 9.7:1 Small block? Hmmmm...

Plus Bullets are fast ramp cams, minimal off the seat time for the @.050 duration numbers.

Jharken

I wanted to open up the exhaust to make more torque but ran out of time.

That 12-15 degrees off to compare to hydraulic is with cams that lash .024/.030

I deduct half lash to compare to hydraulic cams.So tight lash cams like mine with .013 would compare at minus 6.5 in a hydraulic or 240.5@.050

Depends on the lash ramp but pretty accurate.

cutlassefi

I think with more compression (10.25:1) and a reverse dual pattern I'll bet you would have hit 450. Jmo.

Just curious, did you try carb spacers? Is the plenum divider cut?

Thanks J

gearheads78

We need more threads like this on this site. Carry on.

Jharken

I tried 1"4 hole spacer good but not quite as good average power as 1"open.No spacer was 1 hp less at 100rpm less and 1.5ftlbs less.Intake is bone stock no mods.

950 hp was 6hp and 5ft lbs. better than my 750 dp with choke horn and choke plate.

33 timing was the best sec place was 32 total.

Pulls were done at 300rpm/second and water was 145deg.

Jharken

It's Been a long time but got this car going and wanted to give results on this post.

Took the car to the the track here are the results.
1st pass
60'... 1.852
330...5.247
1/8...8.131
MPH..84.79
1000..10.652
1/4....12.796
MPH...104.86

Best Pass
60'... 1.821
330...5.224
1/8...8.105
MPH..84.80
1000..10.622
1/4....12.765
MPH...104.76

Average run with spin
60'... 1.872
330...5.285
1/8...8.164
MPH..84.81
1000..10.678
1/4....12.811
MPH...105.35

Notesld stock shocks front and back,front sway still there, almost full tank of gas.no pump shot or shooter tuning.Played with Air pressure went the wrong way going less.open exhaust with collector extensions.

Stock gas tank fuel lines and Mr gasket mechanical fuel pump.

Car with Strange S60 and me race weight is 3850lbs.

Thought I would share.

Jharken

4.10 gears now with the Dana oops.
Also converter sent to ultimate converter concepts Lenny.
4400-4600 flash

12% slip at track


Link to video

gearheads78

Nice times. The 60 looks a little slow. is it spinning at all? I am thinking you might have a little to much converter. Your 1/8 mph shows you should be solidly in the 7's from my experience.

captjim

Nice! I bet you get a 12.5 with a little tuning, seems like there is some more left in the 60'. The other numbers look pretty good.

Jharken

Had spin and carb was off some.

I will try to put up video of solo pass.

gearheads78

Back when I was first sorting out my old Malibu. I fought what I thought was carb issue for 1/2 a year. It would hiccup off the line no matter what I tried and was stuck in the 1.8x 60's.

I finally found the problem was timming was comming in to slow. After getting my curve right I went right to low 1.6x 60's with no other changes

Not saying this is your issue but might be something you want to look in to.

captjim

I had locked timing at 36 and a start retard on my little wagon. The throttle response was ridiculous.