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My son is service manager at our local Buick/GMC dealership, and I tell him frequently that in my opinion that the current Buicks are the ugliest cars for sale today.
Although I are one to me they look like an "old man"car.
Whom ever is designing the cars of today, just does not get the sportiness of the cars of yesteryear. Do we have our government to blame for this or what is an excuse for government.
Whom ever is designing the cars of today, just does not get the sportiness of the cars of yesteryear. Do we have our government to blame for this or what is an excuse for government.
I have a hard time seeing how the Gov't is forcing GM to build ugly cars.
The reality is that all new cars are ugly. They are either SUVs that never go off road, four door blobs that look like a worn bar of soap, or "sporty" cars with ADHD styling (have you seen the new Corvette?). Plus, they're all silver.
The 05n up mustangs especially the 14 n up ones are still slick looking, course they are reminiscent of the 69-70 ones. I do agree that to many cars these days are silver, or grey, or even gray.....
I do agree that to many cars these days are silver, or grey, or even gray.....
Actually, I've seen a few lately that are what on the '46 F_rd would have been called "Dove Gray."
I think they look pretty good.
As for Buick's design, I'd suspect it's designed more for the international, and especially the Chinese, market than for the US market (which comprises only a small fraction of their international sales).
Probably Chinese buyers think the "old man" design is cool.
Actually, I've seen a few lately that are what on the '46 F_rd would have been called "Dove Gray."
I think they look pretty good.
As for Buick's design, I'd suspect it's designed more for the international, and especially the Chinese, market than for the US market (which comprises only a small fraction of their international sales).
Probably Chinese buyers think the "old man" design is cool.
Joe
i also agree that many cars today are painted silver.
My 69 442 has the original color of Platinum with blue pinstripe which most uneducated call silver.
Personally I really like the Platinum color to the point that 44 years later I invested a fairly large sum of money to match the one that I bought new in 1969(sold it in 1972 big biog mistake)
I have a hard time seeing how the Gov't is forcing GM to build ugly cars.
The reality is that all new cars are ugly. They are either SUVs that never go off road, four door blobs that look like a worn bar of soap, or "sporty" cars with ADHD styling (have you seen the new Corvette?). Plus, they're all silver.
I blame bumpers for a lot of it. It is very hard to make a color coded plastic bumper cover over foam and an actual aluminum bar look as nice as a properly contoured and fitted chrome bumper.
I blame proportions as well. The Camaro especially, Mustang somewhat, Charger a little, and Challenger just a bit, are fatter than their old school models.
The old Challenger is lower and wider (I know it's lowered), the roofline is less bubbled, the nose is lesser in overall height, the windows are longer, and it has less of a butt. It just looks sleeker.
A lot of this is design forced by features. The new car is a lot safer, and more powerful, and things like methods of construction and new component design drive changes in proportion etc.
The new Corvette is a beast, but it has departed from the classic look. Sometimes that's a good thing; I'd argue the C3 Vette is better looking than the C2, which was an improvement over the C1. The C4 Vette was kind of blah, and the C5 was ok, and the C6 was pretty good. This C7 is very different, and I think it's going to take ten years before it's generally regarded a good thing or not.
I do think some strides are happening to make passenger normal cars look a little sportier though, and that's always good.
I think the Challenger is one of the best looking ones out there and closer to original. I think the C7 Vette is exotic looking but I like the C6 a lot better. The fact about the Chinese liking the looks of the Buick is probably correct since they sell so many of them over there. I believe the Chinese are the reason GM kept Buick.
IMHO Buick shot themselves in the foot when they dropped the Lucerne. I bought a new one in December of 2005. The first one the local dealer sold and i still have it. There couldn't have been a better car to fit my family needs. Mine has the Northstar V8 and it still doesn't leak fluids. As far as a large car goes, the Lucerne was the best deal in the market at the time. Don't know why Buick dropped the line in 2012 and replaced it with a smaller car. Just another beancounter mistake.
Don't know why Buick dropped the line in 2012 and replaced it with a smaller car. Just another beancounter mistake.
Not really. A larger car wouldn't sell well overseas, and that's their target market - US sales are just gravy.
It wouldn't pay for them to run a whole other line in the US for a completely different car, when GM already serves the US market with lots of larger SUVs and pickups, which don't sell as well in other countries.
The market for larger cars in the US, distinct from SUVs and pickups, is just not large enough for them to make money on.
GM already serves the US market with lots of larger SUVs and pickups, which don't sell as well in other countries.
The market for larger cars in the US, distinct from SUVs and pickups, is just not large enough for them to make money on.
- Eric
There is still a group, small group of old people, who does not want an SUV or pickup and cannot afford the price of a Caddy or Mercedes or other brand that is way overpriced just because of their name. I still feel the US auto manufacturers have sold out on their loyal customers.
There is still a group, small group of old people, who does not want an SUV or pickup and cannot afford the price of a Caddy or Mercedes or other brand that is way overpriced just because of their name. I still feel the US auto manufacturers have sold out on their loyal customers.
Of course they have. But no car company is going to make a completely different model for "a small group of people."
Let's face it, once you're a member of "a small group," the car makers (and any other large business) don't care about you at all.
I agree most new cars are awful. I HATE almost all the new crossover's, Diapermobile's as I call them. The reason for that is either people with kids or old people drive them, both wear diapers. The 14 and up GM trucks are the nicest in years and the new 5.3 finally has enough power and decent mileage. But at 60 plus grand for a nicely equipped one, forget it. The latest Camaro is also much better. The newest Mustang is OK and the gen before was very nice. The Challenger is the most practical. Room for 5, 4 adults comfortably and enough trunk space for everyone. Our 2010 3.5 SE 5spd auto version will pull 32 mpg imperial in good weather and has a lot of passing power, it is really geared for the highway. Now that it is paid for in December, I may do the shorty headers and bigger throttle body, both make a nice difference from what I read online.
There is still a group, small group of old people, who does not want an SUV or pickup and cannot afford the price of a Caddy or Mercedes or other brand that is way overpriced just because of their name. I still feel the US auto manufacturers have sold out on their loyal customers.
Take a look at "large" car sales on this site, and take a look at how they have fallen out of favor in the market:
GM is merely producing what the market demands, yet still builds the cars that you may be seeking.
For an n of 1:
My father is in his late seventies. He is constantly working on his vehicles and gets around fine, but he can't quite move the way he used to.
He had a very nice small convertible that he bought new over 15 years ago, drove very little, and finally passed on to me, because he just couldn't get in and out of it anymore, and he found the clutch uncomfortable to operate.
He drives a newish full size top-trim GM pickup, a low-mile early-2000s full size Dodge van, and a late model high-trim Toyo mini-van, and his wife drives mostly a late-model Acura crossover and a 10 year old Grand Cherokee.
Unifying factor? High enough off the ground to get in and out of easily, and new enough to be dependable and not need tinkering.
He's got plenty of old vehicles that he plays with, but he doesn't want any uncertainty about whether any of his daily drivers will start in the morning.
I send him ads for low-mile original '60s full size Oldsmobiles whenever I see them near him, as I am sure he'd enjoy the ride, but he hasn't taken me up on one yet because he says he wouldn't be sure it would start every time, and he likes his automatic climate control and his ABS (and the 25 to 35mpg he gets with the newer vehicles).
Extrapolate this out, and you can see the market problem for US automakers and new cars:
Nobody is going to make a fullsize car as big as an old B- or C-body now, and what they call "fullsize" now is really about as big as the compact Nova (and Ωmega) or Dodge Dart was in the seventies. My old man, and millions (?) like him, would like a car that size, for ease of entry and exit, but the only place they're going to find one is in a truck, or maybe a "crossover," or in an old car. The problem is that the options of trucks, vans, and crossovers already exist, and are socially acceptable for a "regular" person to drive, and most of the members of this demographic group are happy enough to buy one of the above, so that a market for a new "large" car just doesn't justify the development and production expenses.
I send him ads for low-mile original '60s full size Oldsmobiles whenever I see them near him, as I am sure he'd enjoy the ride, but he hasn't taken me up on one yet because he says he wouldn't be sure it would start every time, and he likes his automatic climate control and his ABS (and the 25 to 35mpg he gets with the newer vehicles).
I'm now sure how this diversion applies to the topic of GM's photo shop misidentifying a photo, but...
Comfortron was available in the mid-1960s.
Has your dad ever actually engaged the ABS while driving? Frankly, every car I own has "ABS". It's called "my right foot". If I feel the brakes start to lock, I modulate pressure on the pedal. Same thing for traction control.
Can't help with the MPG, however, but the difference in purchase price likely buys a lot of gasoline.
I'm now sure how this diversion applies to the topic of GM's photo shop misidentifying a photo, but...
Next stop on this thread:...... CUBA!!!!
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Comfortron was available in the mid-1960s.
And occasionally continued to function into the mid-1970's.
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Has your dad ever actually engaged the ABS while driving? Frankly, every car I own has "ABS". It's called "my right foot". If I feel the brakes start to lock, I modulate pressure on the pedal. Same thing for traction control.
I agree. It's really just an extra excuse to avoid buying a new project, as fas as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Can't help with the MPG, however, but the difference in purchase price likely buys a lot of gasoline.
As I myself have noted in conversations.
The difference between the 50 or 60 grand he spent on a new truck, and the 7 or 8 it would cost for a really nice original 98 would buy a whole lot of gas (and a few tows as well...).
And he'll never use the in-flight WiFi, because he doesn't even know what it is.
(I will admit he's perpetually ticked by the electronic selective 2/4/all wheel drive, though...)
. The 14 and up GM trucks are the nicest in years and the new 5.3 finally has enough power and decent mileage. But at 60 plus grand for a nicely equipped one, forget it. The latest Camaro is also much better. The newest Mustang is OK and the gen before was very nice. The Challenger is the most practical. Room for 5, 4 adults comfortably and enough trunk space for everyone. Our 2010 3.5 SE 5spd auto version will pull 32 mpg imperial in good weather and has a lot of passing power, it is really geared for the highway. Now that it is paid for in December, I may do the shorty headers and bigger throttle body, both make a nice difference from what I read online.
