pechetr

Just purchased a 1970 Cutlass Supreme in very nice daily driver condition. Looking to upgrade the performance immediately with Headers, intake, ignition, carb. Hoping to breathe some life into her. Any additional non-invasive bolt-ons to consider? I would also like to track down a W-25 hood. Preferably steel, but glass would work too. Btw that should read Edmonton.

Thanks in advance

joe_padavano

Welcome. Just so we're clear, this is a "442" hood and is metal:



This is the optional W-25 hood and from the factory it was a fiberglass upper with a metal frame underneath:



Despite the fact that just about EVERY 1970 442 (and all Faux-Four-Twos as well) have the W-25 hood today, relatively few came that way from the factory.

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site, nice car.

pechetr

Thanks oldcutlass and you are correct Joe. I made the change. My knowledge is in the Buick GS's, this is my first Olds.

citcapp

Nice ride. I am a 40's, 50's Olds guy so can't answer your questions but you will get feed back from others on the site

scottv442

Hello Edmonton

Thats a nice car you picked up. I should know, cause I used to own it here in Calgary.
Bring it down to the all Oldsmobile show in July. Its held at Hildebrand Chevrolet in 'Olds' Alberta third weekend in July.



Cheers

Allan R

Re: breathing new life into your CS? Start with a good tune up and fluid changes. Chances are you have a 2.56:1 rear end in that car (most were built with economy gears) so I wouldn't hold a candle to upgrading the stuff you described to 'wake it up'. You'd be better off to install different carrier and gears like a 3.08:1. That might be a little tough considering you likely have an O type axle. BTW, installing headers on the car is a royal PITA, so you might want to consider a block off plate on the left side and just run duals back from the stock manifolds. You could go with a different intake, but the QJet that's on the car is actually a good one. Also, IF you do decide to install headers? The information about them not fitting the Cutlass Supreme is all incorrect. You can use this site to search for this information and it all spells the same outcome.

The W25 hood and underhood components are reproduced (correctly as OLDS made them in the day) by Thornton. They aren't cheap - 2500.00 USD + shipping + prep/paint + tie down hardware + breather element + duty and customs. You sure you want to end up with close to 4000.00 USD just for a hood??? Lessee now, that would be close to $C 5250.00 which won't do much to wake up the car. Nothing wrong with the way your car looks now IMO, as 100% of the Cutlass Supreme Holiday coupes never came with a W25 hood from the factory. The ones sporting them were either dealer or owner add ons. One other thing I'll clarify since Joe failed to do so: The CS Holiday coupe was never offered as a 442 in the 70-72 model years.

Was your car sold in Edmonton or somewhere else in Canada? If it was you can still get documentation on it from GM Heritage Center (for a fee, what's new huh?)

Where in Edmonton are you? I'm up in Elsinore. My car is a 72 Cutlass S we've had in the family since 1974.

Allan R

Wow, how cool is that? Do you have any other history on it?
re: the All Olds Show. He needs to register for that with Ken Pilidis. Here's the link to the Northern Lights Olds chapter. http://www.oldsnorthernlights.com/roundup.asp

Edit: Just noticed it's an SX! So it will have a 455/TH400. That should be plenty of torque to work with even with 2.56 gears.

pechetr

Wow that is very cool. I am actually bussing down to Calgary on Friday to pick it up. Would love to pick your brain about the car Scott. As for the upgrades Allan, I appreciate the comments. I bought the car because it is a nice clean platform to make the car my own. Good call on the rear. I think you can go up to 3:23 in the BOP 8.25 housing but I was told this has a 12 bolt. I want to definitely squeeze some extra power out of it with the bolt-ons and the hood is just a personal preference because I think it make the car look much more aggressive. My last car, a 1970 Buick GS was a show winner bone stock so I didn't want to "update" it. The Olds will be a perfect candidate. I am in the NE corner of Edmonton and will definitely be in Olds on the 16th of July. I signed up with Northern Lights today. It is not a true SX....wish it was but then it certainly would have cost more than I paid.

609.00 hood from year one, 289.00 shipping plus brokerage fees and exchange. Around 1400.00 all in then another 1000.00 for paint, locks and decals.

oldsmobiledave

Is this Kerry and did you sell the Rich John's restored Bamboo Cream GS455?

The Type O 12 bolt is a different animal than the 68-70 8.2 Buick. You have a lot of learning to do and there are lots of us here who will help.

Welcome to the Oldsmobile side of GM. See you at the show in July.


Dave in Cochrane

pechetr

Thanks Dave. Mine was Bamboo Cream, but unfortunately not the 455.

oldsmobiledave

When you start to think about performance keep in mind that your car has a non original low compression 1973 #8 head 350 in it not the original high compression #6 head 350. Hope that this is not news to you.


I looked at your car before Vaughn bought it but he can tell you a lot more about it than I can. I have pictures of how it looked 2 years ago if interested.

scottv442

Hey Edmonton

Allan R is correct. It has a Oldsmobile 12bolt 2:56 rear in it now. For upgrades you would be best to start there. I would swap out the Olds 12bolt for a '71-72' 8.5" corporate with at least 3.42 and posi. The engine is a low compression 73 block and heads with the original 4bbl intake and carb. swapped over by a previous owner. This intake and carb will be superior to any aftermarket aluminium intake and carb if your doing a "mild" engine upgrade. (i.e. carb & cam)
Has full walker dual exhaust installed (sounds real good) older pipes though.

Here's what i know from my ownership:

-Car was purchased by my previous owners parents in 1994 in St. Paul, AB.
-That owner then had a full cosmetic restoration done at a local GM dealership. Rear qtrs and front fenders have some fill, but still holding strong after all this time. Original color was Aspen Grn. w/Blue pinstripes. Dark grn now. After 20 years the paint still polishs to good shine.
-The car then sat in his garage for the next 20years and rarely driven.
-In 1994 the car had just over 94,000 miles listed on the repair docs.

-I bought the car in August 2015 with just over 96,000 miles on the clock.
-The previous owner drove it down to Calgary from St. Paul to go to school.
He had another more practical car for that and sold this CS to me.
Thats where Dave saw the car.
-I replaced the original wheels with a set of 15" SS3 and new Coopers
-I installed a set of repo SX trim tags on the fenders. (cause I like them)
-I dressed up the engine bay to look like an SX (it was painted chev orange)
-I installed New waterpump last fall. Old one started to weep.
-I had "Economy Transmission" reseal the transmission last fall.
all new seals and gaskets. Free up the tranny kickdown cable etc.
Unfortunately the trans started leaking little again from the front seal.
-Bench seat interior is original and no rips.
-Has the speed-minder speedo that still works.
-Has old rear air shocks. I installed new lines and valves. (old ones broke)
-I removed the old remote interior air compressor.
-I resealed the rear trunk after it leaked in the rain last fall, but have not
tested it since it was done. Hope it don't leak anymore.
-The 350 engine is strong and will do peg-leg burnouts easily.
-Original points dist. (set 11 initial, 36 total) (needs new plug wires soon)
-16 inches vaccumn steady (no valve problems)
-5w30 full synthetic oil changed last fall.
-I took it to the high river show&shine last fall. Drove fantastic.
-Car sat in my garage for full winter and spring. I hardly drove it last year.
-Put it up for a one day sale about three weeks ago when Kevin F. bought it.
-He told me it was a graduation present for his son. 29yrs old RCMP?
Got a text from him that night saying his son didn't want it?
-Next thing I see, its up for sale again and you now own it.

Heres a few pics:

scottv442

[QUOTE=pechetr;922605]Wow that is very cool. I am actually bussing down to Calgary on Friday to pick it up. Would love to pick your brain about the car Scott.

I will going to the "Okotoks Collector Car Auction" friday afternoon, but can meet you earlier?

pechetr

Who is Vaughn (ScottV?) Yes I would like some pics if you have. Thanks.

pechetr

So Kevin told me he purchased the car a year ago from an estate sale and that the previous owner (a 75 y/o gentleman) had passed away. He also told me the car was original. i.e. numbers matching. Appreciate the information on the car.

oldsmobiledave

Are you starting to smell a rat?


Prior to your purchase I had email conversations with the person who you purchased the car from & told him directly that it was not an SX & not original.

scottv442

Kevin corrected his ad to say it was an SX Clone, 350 rocket 4bbl. May 18/2016

oldsmobiledave

Yup. After he & I exchanged emails.

scottv442

I called him on to change it too.

pechetr

Yeah I knew it was a clone. That was clear. But how he acquired the car, the length of time he claimed to have owned it and the originality of the car "aside from the SX item" were false.

pechetr

I assume that means 8.0:1 compression? So a head swap or will thicker head gaskets help? I am thinking might just be cheaper in the long run to find a new engine. I was hoping an intake, headers and Pertronix ignition would be all I needed.

oldsmobiledave

You need to quantify your performance expectations 1st. Then decide where your budget allows you to go.

scottv442

If you got the abilities and tools.....swap out the 350 for a 1968-72 Olds 455. That and a set of rear end gears will get you the 'stoplight' torque your looking for.

pechetr

I think the factory rating is 200bhp on the 73 engine. I would like to get another 100bhp out of it at least. Budget is not an issue but I didn't want to really get into tearing the engine apart. I can get the engine done up nicely for 3500 bucks with some head work, a cam and some machining but really wanted to do bolt on only. At the end of the day what is the most the car will be worth? I don't want to drop a bunch of money into the car I will never get back.

pechetr

Definitely something I am considering. I can do an engine swap myself but where do I track down a decent running 455?

Allan R

Stop now. You will NOT get what you put into the car as a return. Stick with your bolt ons and be happy. This site has seen countless posts by folks who put up to 30k into their car, thinking it increases the value by the same amount. That's laughable. On a good day, I might, if I squeezed really hard, be able to wring $US 15K out of it. Good thing I don't need to sell it.

The law of return on investments? The car NEEDS a motor to run; it also needs the rest of the driveline. You putting 3500 into it does not increase the value of the car by 3500.00 It simply makes it more reliable in terms of having not worn out parts. Almost everyone I know with a project car has spent more time and money on it than the car is worth. Project cars = Money Pits. This shouldn't sway you, just inform you - based on what you expect for valuation. You can increase the value of the car with improvements, but it's NOT a 1:1 ratio.

Is this car for your enjoyment, racing, or show? IMO those issues need to be addressed first before you start dumping $ into it. Wanna know how I know all this? My project car is not finished, and will never be worth the amount of time, $$, and parts I've spent on it over the years. Yes, it's worth more now than what it sold for new, but it will never be a show stopping 6 figure car. It is, however, a very nice looking, riding and desirable car that I'm proud of.

scottv442

If your concerned about resale value, and we know its a low compression 350.....best bang for your bucks is a 50- 100 shot nitrous kit. Hook it up to your carb with a wide open throttle switch and enjoy the ride wen you want it. 100 shot is reliable and will not harm your engine. Plus its removable when it comes time to sell. I did this to a 1979 delta 88 and got high 13 second passes out of it at race city Calgary 10 years ago. The surprise factor from the other racers was priceless.

pechetr

Ha ha....Well turns out the issue has almost been decided for me. Had an exhaust leak on the passenger side manifold today so I took the manifold off and low and behold broke a bolt off in the head.

Now the intake is off as is the head. Bolt was drilled out and tapped. I am incredibly impressed by how clean that engine is inside though. I think I will just replace the head gaskets, add the Edelbrock intake with the factory Rochester and a set of headers. Then focus on the rear end and drive it. Any value in getting some mild head work done while they are off? Can I add a little compression with a thicker gasket? Which one would folks recommend? Engine shop told me to add a cam would require milling the heads and possibly going with different push rods. Regardless the engine is coming out to get repainted. Blue, orange and gold layered on with a spray can and overspray everywhere.

scottv442

Thicker head gaskets will reduce your compression ratio (CR) not increase it. You probably meant to say thinner head gasket? That is old school copper gasket thinking and was not very reliable for long head gasket life.
If you have the heads off, get the surface milled 030 and us a good cometic gasket (9.0:1). This requires a complete head overhaul now and cost $$.
Last pair of SB heads I had done at Davenport cost 1500.00/pr will mild porting, new springs, and a 3 angle. This combined with a new cam, lifters, pushrods, oil pump, timing chain, gasket set , headers, exhaust work, and engine breakin can easily top 3000.00 Depending on the cam, you will need to get new rear end gears (3:23-3:42) and posi (1000.00) and maybe even a new stall speed convertor and shift kit int the trans (800.00). See how fast this can get expensive.

Heres the path I would take. Buy this truck on Kijiji with a rebuilt olds 455 and transmission (for a little as possible). Swap the engine and trans into your supreme. Reassemble the #8 head 350 and install back into the truck, then sell the truck. You might even make a profit if you do it all yourself.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/...ationFlag=true

pechetr

That's a good idea, but a lot of work. I think new head gaskets, new intake and headers. Detail the engine compartment and put it back together. Paint it gold and then do the rear with a 3:36 posi. Then enjoy it until it is time for something different.

oldsmobiledave

So you are planning to not use the olds Type O rear end since no 3.36 gears exist. And you are not planning to use a 71-72 8.5" rear end since no 3.36 gears exist either.


Which rear end is it that you are planning to bolt under this car? You do realize that a new driveshaft & U joints will also be required.

Allan R

Hmm, maybe he can talk you into a rear you might have lying around? I'd go with either 3:08 or 3:23's myself. Much easier to get parts/gears for the 8.5 corporate rear.

This guy in Millwoods has an 8.5" corporate for 150.00. He's wrong that it's 68-72 though. 8.5 was 71/72 http://www.kijiji.ca/b-auto-parts-ti.../k0c31l1700203 I don't know if it comes with axles.

pechetr

Thanks Allan. I think that one should work. 3:23 is fine with me.

Allan R

You'll also be able to keep your prop shaft. It should bolt right up. If you farm out the differential for work? DON'T use Alberta Driveline. They screwed up mine royally and it has to go back AGAIN for a new pinion seal - 3rd one!

pechetr

Yeah I was thinking Western Powertrain.

Allan R

I don't know them. I looked them up on the web. Appears to be a smaller business. I'm curious what they'd quote you on a posi and gear upgrade. I'd have the diff bushings replaced at the same time. I did mine myself. I took out the rear axle and dropped it off, cleaned it up when I got it back and reinstalled it. Not a terrible job.

I bought my series 3 carrier from Jim Mitschke on this site. (monzaz) who is a rear end specialist. He even pressed the carrier bearings on for a very small fee. I also bought the 3.42's from him and his prices were decent. By comparison when I talked with AD, they quoted me prices that were 3x what Jim offered and that was for used parts. Worth checking out Jim and asking what he can do for you. He runs J.D. Race and Restoration.

pechetr

I will definitely contact them. In the mean time here are a few pics of this weekends efforts....

Allan R

Valley looks really nice. The coolant passages on the block are horrible - they're totally plugged.
Color on the VC and head looks good. What did you use?

pechetr

Couldn't find the correct Oldsmobile gold so believe it of not it is high temp caliper paint. Called Universal gold. That bank still has the head gasket on it. Here is the other side without the gasket.