Del70

I am installing a 70-72 NOS Cutlass fender LH. I am having a difficult time getting it to fit correctly. If I line the fender/door character line (referring the line that sweeps across the two panels), and set the fender/door margin mid point on the fender to ~ ¼” (factory is .22 + .04/.00) and set the bottom flush with the rocker the fender is bowed in the middle. I have shimmed the various locations trying to balanace it, w/o any real luck. It is as if the fender is too tall, it . gets a bow in the middle, making the fender overflush to the door in the moddle/, It fits perferct at the bottom to 1/4 the way up Any shimming I do at the bottom to pull the fender down, to primarly pull the middle of the fender in to remove the bow, then pulls the top of the fender down , the fender character line drops below the door characterline line and top of the fender, at "S" area of the door/fender drops below the door characterline ....Hopefully this all makes sence to thoes who have a 70-72 Cutlass and thoes who have installed their fenders thanks..any ideas/tips

thanks

jensenracing77

sounds like the problem i had with an NOS left fender in 1999 on my Rallye 350. i took it back off to find the upper mounts that bolt to the cowl/door area was a little differant than the fender that came on the car. i ended up have a local body man fix it for me. he said he had to bend and relocate the upper mounts a little. at the nationals at seven springs the inline tube guys said that is common on the NOS left fenders. i am not a body man but just telling what i have seen and was told.

Del70

thanks. I will look at the brk again, and measure it and the holes on my factory fender and see if the NOS is the same. I looked and took some quick measurements before while trying to figure out issue..and it looked the same, but I will look at everything again...thanks for the info.

70Post

I'll second that....I've seen this on multiple NOS replacement '70-72 fenders. We removed and relocated the upper Apillar tab on one set to get them to fit right. I've also seen others where someone had to elongate (alot) the hole to get them to fit OK.

Del70

Wow, I am trying to see/understand how that Brk effects that fit to know what to do next….
If I Pull the fender out cross car...with shims on the fender bracket that secures in the door. It decrease the under flush of the fender to the door cross car...at the character line at the top..that makes sense and looks okay... The
Result is a bad bow in the middle of the door....looks bad. The fender lines up with door/rocker line no issues at the bottom, 1/4 or more the way up from the bottom to about where the Cutlass Supreme trim is. I get a good consistent gap between fender and door….this with not trying to pull the fender down with any shims at the bottom, just shimmed to take up for space between fender and J Nuts)

To remove the bow…If I shim the bottom ..to try to pull fender down , to pull the fender in it pulls the top of the fender down and in at the top...resulting in miss aligned character line , a gap at the top. The fnder is under flush to the door cross car..(fender is under flush about by about 1/8 or more from the top down about 1.75 to 2" from the top of the door character line, then again the fender sweeps out to be slightly over flush cross car to the door midway…If I add shims to the door mounting bracket to push the fender out the middle of the fender moves out…I have been back and forth with each area to try to get this to fit..

I will look at the A pillar brk/area again tonight....

Do you remember which direction you moved the Pillar tab?. (I assume you are referring to the thick mounting bracket that is secured to the A-pillar…thanks again

Ayone have any other ideas...thanks

70Post

Del--Sorry....I don't remember which way we moved it. This was a few years ago and I didn't take notes.

Yes...I am referring to the thick tab that you put the bolt (with attached washer) through to attach the fender at the bottom of the A-pillar.

I also can't remember exactly which way the holes were elongated on the other car. A buddy owns the car but it's not here in Austin. A prior owner did the elongation work (or his paint person did). I will take a look at another possible car with NOS replacement fenders tomorrow and see if there's any evidence of elongation, etc. Of course, if the tabs were removed and relocated on this particular car I won't be able to tell as the car was restored over 15 years ago and is complete/built/driven.

Not sure if it even gets you where you need to be as you point out. Maybe we could try some super accurate tape measure comparisons vs. some known original flat ridge type '70 fenders (I have some here). We would need to be on the exact same "wavelength" when measuring...you know...both measure across the exact same points on each fender.

I would suggest taking a measurement from the top to bottom. Starting point would be the body line at the top of the fender where it transitions from a horizontal surface to vertical. Same point at the bottom...where it goes from vertical back to horizontal on its way to the bottom fender mounting area. The tape should FOLLOW THE CONTOURS OF THE FENDER and be placed far enough forward so the tape is just touching the whole vertical skin.

Beginning and ending points should be IN THE MIDDLE of the body lines.

Del70

Okay, yes my A-post bracket is off....on my NOS and used Service fender....what luck two fenders with issues.. Both Outboard about 1/4" which will shift it down as well. I elongated the hole which helped some but still have that bow, but it is slightly better..I will open up (elongate) the hole more tommorow, and hopfully once the top character line of the fender/door are lined up and set flush locked down the middle will come in some, w/o loosing the flushness of the character lines..If the bracket was easily removed I would do that....thanks

Del70

After a lot of finessing of the A- post bracket, I finally got the LH fender on. Fit is okay. I do have a slight bow in the middle, which is very slightly out of spec ( there is supposed to be bow by design), but overall it turned out okay.
FY...I to anyone thinking of an NOS 70-72 Cutlass front fender, and any used fender... As mentioned in this post by others, there are NOS fenders/ service fenders out there with misplaced A-post brackets . My RH fender I picked up 20 years ago was a used /service fender and it too, had the bracket out of position. My NOS fender bracket was off by ¼”outboard and 1/8” slightly forward. This effects more than just the number of shims on the A-post. It changes the center line of the bracket/A-post bolt center line. It ends up effecting the fender set. It seems this bracket position is critical to set the gaps, and margins and. I ended up having to open up the hole for the A-post bolt and bent the ear of the bracket down/up and in. Trying to get it close to my 70 factory bracket. I ended up needing 3 shims at the A-post. I am sure the bracket could be separated from the inner support, but I was concerned about removing and rewelding it, and damaging that inner support piece. If I could not fit it, I would have removed it. Was getting real close to doing that…thanks

69442C

Many times, these replacement parts became service replacements because they had problems and didn't fit correctly. Since production was the name of the game on the assembly line, they would just grab another fender that didn't have a problem and designate the problem one for the parts group.

507OLDS

I think DaveH had mentioned that there were times that fenders were being installed,and if they didn't fit right away,they were put aside & later sold over the counter.Maybe he will comment on this.

If you pull up on the fender,over the headlight,does it remove the bow?

66400

When fenders are installed on the assembly line aren't they are already painted to match they car?

Henry

69442C

The front ends for the cars were assembled prior to being painted and then installed onto the car as a complete assembly after painting. In order for them to assemble the front without the body, there must have been a fixture they used to do so. If it came together on the fixture, it went out for finishing. If something didn't fit and was too far off to make it work quickly, that part could have been sent to the parts group.

Del70

No, pulling on the fender at the headlamp area does not remove the bow. At least not in this case.

- Also, I assume these fenders, and other parts. were still made after production stopped on the 72 model year to fill the parts depot/service requests.

Does anyone know if there is a way to determine the date a fender was produced from the sticker, or a stamping mark? (..I know visual the difference between a 70 vs 71/2) thanks

Del70

Okay, ended up just moving the a-post brk. Drilled out about 5 spot welds, easily-- must have been a great drill bit, was surprised how soft each weld was... and re-postioned it per my Fact. 70 fender Brk. Moved it a good 1/4 inch in and to the rear...Did it help. yes and no. Still a little (more bigger than I like ...) bow along the door, that I can't fix...but the fender no longer has to be stresed into postion at the A-post bolt, and bolt tightens up where it is placed, lines up and no 3/4 think shimming pack etc...Overall this NOS fender was not the best one ...Never thought that I would have had to put this much time into this fender to get it to fit. I know what to look for next time (if I ever need to.. I think this is, last resto for me with this car) .. In the end no rust, but a not so great fit..