Muscle Car..What car is considered the first?
November 10th, 2009, 03:18 PM
#81
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I don't have much use for Chevy guys. I grew up with them and they knew nothing about anything else . . . until someone picked up a '70 GS 455 and beat their tunnel-rammed BBC.
Another Chevy guy wrecked his car and picked up a cheap Falcon with a 289. As he was a motorhead teenager, he started working on it and thought, "Gee, those Fords are pretty nifty!" but he was more intelligent than some of the other Chevy guys.
Another Chevy guy wrecked his car and picked up a cheap Falcon with a 289. As he was a motorhead teenager, he started working on it and thought, "Gee, those Fords are pretty nifty!" but he was more intelligent than some of the other Chevy guys.
November 10th, 2009, 04:21 PM
#82
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I always thought it was the power to weight ratio that made the determination. The car had to have at least 10 hp for every 100#. So a 3500# car had to have at least 350hp from the factory.
I am a new member, and I am enjoying the group very much.
I am a new member, and I am enjoying the group very much.
November 10th, 2009, 05:46 PM
#83
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Certainly one of the most objective.
What 'cha got, Mike?
November 10th, 2009, 06:02 PM
#84
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65 Rag top
I have a 65 F-85 Cutlass Convertable 330 4 barrel with auto/console. Gearing up for a resto this winter. Bought it in 1987 for 2K with hopes of restoring it some day. The day has come as the front seal on the 2 speed jet a way is leaking bad. It was driven until mid summer this year. I am 3rd owner with the second only owning it for a short time. 135k miles. Loving it for over 22 years now.
Cheers--
Cheers--
October 15th, 2011, 07:48 AM
#85
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October 15th, 2011, 09:31 AM
#88
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I browsed through this thread and didn't see the reason why the 64 Ford 427 Thunderbolt, and the max wedge and hemi Mopars weren't added to the Supercar/muscle car list. Well, those were race engines and were sold with little or no warranty. The key to being a muscle car was that the car had the same, full warranty and the engine was basically a line-engine with a long projected lifespan. The Pontiac 389 was such, and was "big" engine, intermediate car. In 1965, Mopar tried the 426 street wedge, but their previous high-po big engines had the famous 5-50 warranty, and I don't mean five years, fifty thousand miles like the standard type engined cars had. I mean five seconds, fifty feet, as people said, meaning the cars were sold with no warranty. The 406 Ford doesn't qualify because it was in the big Galaxie. Ford had the 427 shoehorned into a cut up Fairlane in 1964 as the Thunderbolt, a limited production race car.
October 15th, 2011, 09:48 AM
#89
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survey_saysWRONG.jpg
I had to edit my post......
Turns out we've all been duped into believing this.
Rocket Raider was right.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...Rocket-88.aspx
The Pontiac GTO in 1964 was targeted towards an already EXISTING market of muscle cars
and was MARKETED as the 1st Muscle Car......when in fact it was not the 1st.
I had to edit my post......
Turns out we've all been duped into believing this.
Rocket Raider was right.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...Rocket-88.aspx
Named to complement the already existing 76 and 98 series, the 88 which was considered to
the grandaddy of musclecars of the 1960s was first introduced in 1949
the grandaddy of musclecars of the 1960s was first introduced in 1949
and was MARKETED as the 1st Muscle Car......when in fact it was not the 1st.
Last edited by Aceshigh; October 16th, 2011 at 11:07 AM.
October 15th, 2011, 10:20 AM
#91
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Yes, the first "muscle car" hands down was the 64' GTO. People might nit pick and argue it saying certain cars had performance V8s before that and yes they might have been nice hot rods but the first true muscle car was the 64' GTO
October 15th, 2011, 10:48 AM
#92
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It was the '64 GTO. This is what my Dad's garage looked like while I was in the Army playing "Rambo."
The '66 GMC was Dad's work truck. The '67 Bonneville was Mom's car. Dad traded in his '64 Olds Jetstar I for the '67. Hated that '67
Oh well..... it's all history now
October 15th, 2011, 12:58 PM
#93
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i have to agree with jetstar88 and the rest of the '49 olds 88 bunch. from what i've seen & read the 88's were smaller than the 98's. in fact their is either a '49 or '50 olds 88 out north of town, it's turned upside down on top of a scrap pile... i don't know what the wheelbase is but it can't be any more than my A body cutlass 4dr.
to me this arguement is more about technicality than reality...
to me this arguement is more about technicality than reality...
October 15th, 2011, 05:38 PM
#94
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You punks need to learn your Oldsmobile history.
It was the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88. GTO was actually late to the game of stuffing the hottest engine into the light/midsize body. Even AMC/Rambler beat them to it in 1957.
Some hardcore Buick guys insist it was actually the 1936 Buick Century, but it was the big-body Buick. It could easily break 100 mph hence its name, but wasn't as quick as the Olds, Pontiac or Rambler.
But, none of these cars had the advertising and marketing push the GTO did, nor did they hit the market at an opportune time like the Goat did. I mean, there was even GTO cologne
. The Rocket came close, but GTO established the musclecar market.
And I used to love GTO's until the ****-retentive investor types took them over. The vast majority of "musclecar" people now do not have a clue what those cars were really about. They'd have a coronary if someone burned the tires till they popped like so often happened in the true musclecar days.
It was the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88. GTO was actually late to the game of stuffing the hottest engine into the light/midsize body. Even AMC/Rambler beat them to it in 1957.
Some hardcore Buick guys insist it was actually the 1936 Buick Century, but it was the big-body Buick. It could easily break 100 mph hence its name, but wasn't as quick as the Olds, Pontiac or Rambler.
But, none of these cars had the advertising and marketing push the GTO did, nor did they hit the market at an opportune time like the Goat did. I mean, there was even GTO cologne
. The Rocket came close, but GTO established the musclecar market.And I used to love GTO's until the ****-retentive investor types took them over. The vast majority of "musclecar" people now do not have a clue what those cars were really about. They'd have a coronary if someone burned the tires till they popped like so often happened in the true musclecar days.
I remeber you calling me, back in 1986 or 87 and I said my two favotive cars as a 67 GTO and a 68 Toronado. I bought up the point Toronados were bought by "older folks", and less likely to of been 'beat on", unlike GTOs.
I rember back then, you could buy sweet GTOs for $7500.
October 15th, 2011, 07:09 PM
#96
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The Olds argument is kind of lame in my oppinion. Yes it was a sweet hotrod, no it was not the first muscle car. Of course there are going to be people on here that would love to think Olds had the first muscle car, the same as if you were on a Buick forum theyd say Buick had it, and if you were on a Plymouth site theyd say Plymouth had it. No, the first, original muscle car was the 64' GTO. A V8 coupe isnt a muscle car, V8 coupe is part of what makes a muscle car a muscle car. First "muscle car" was the 64' GTO, not only because it was the first to meet all the criteria, but because without the 64' goat opening a can on that Ferarri the idea of dropping massive big blocks into small production cars would never have caught on the way it did.
Stubborn people can argue it but when 85% of people say the GTO was the first and 15% have their own oppinions the win will go to the GTO. Just like if you walk down any street in America and mention the word "***", odds are nobody is going to hand you a cigarette...
Stubborn people can argue it but when 85% of people say the GTO was the first and 15% have their own oppinions the win will go to the GTO. Just like if you walk down any street in America and mention the word "***", odds are nobody is going to hand you a cigarette...
October 16th, 2011, 03:51 AM
#97
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What a mujscle car means to me;
A 2 door coupe version of a car offered as a 4 door, convertibles and wagons may be other variants but don't enter this argument for me.
A big block engine is mandatory, other performance options are not required.
The car should be mostly about straight line performance, however comfort and convenience options should not preclude it.
That narrows the field down for me, no doubt you all have your own definitions....
Roger.
A 2 door coupe version of a car offered as a 4 door, convertibles and wagons may be other variants but don't enter this argument for me.
A big block engine is mandatory, other performance options are not required.
The car should be mostly about straight line performance, however comfort and convenience options should not preclude it.
That narrows the field down for me, no doubt you all have your own definitions....
Roger.
October 16th, 2011, 07:45 AM
#98
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Since everybody is splitting hairs, I'll add my comments. If you disagree, I don't care, as this entire definition is completely subjective, and nobody is really right or wrong (except me - I'm right!).
1961 Chevy 409.
The motor was powerful and was offered in 11.25:1 compression with a solid lifter high performance cam, and (I think) came with a mandatory 4-speed, as well as the SS package, which suspension and brake improvements and special trim.
I think that the whole "small car / big engine" thing is off base - the key was a light (non-luxury) car and a big engine that was tuned for speed rather than drivability, with a manual transmission.
Excluded candidates:
Corvette - a "Sports Car," not a muscle car
Chrysler 300 - a luxury car
Thunderbird (even with the 427 tri-power) - ditto
Riviera - ditto
Toronado - ditto
Ventura - okay, you could make the argument for the 389 / 348 HP / tri-power
You could have the '61 Impala (or Biscayne, or Bel Aire, or whatever) with the big engine and the 4-speed, basically otherwise completely stripped down. In '61, there WAS no mid-sized Chevy (nothing to equate to the Tempest, F-85, and Skylark), just the Corvair, and B-O-P were NOT putting big engines into their compacts.
Okay, so since I gave the right answer, this thread is closed now... Right?
- Eric
1961 Chevy 409.
The motor was powerful and was offered in 11.25:1 compression with a solid lifter high performance cam, and (I think) came with a mandatory 4-speed, as well as the SS package, which suspension and brake improvements and special trim.
I think that the whole "small car / big engine" thing is off base - the key was a light (non-luxury) car and a big engine that was tuned for speed rather than drivability, with a manual transmission.
Excluded candidates:
Corvette - a "Sports Car," not a muscle car
Chrysler 300 - a luxury car
Thunderbird (even with the 427 tri-power) - ditto
Riviera - ditto
Toronado - ditto
Ventura - okay, you could make the argument for the 389 / 348 HP / tri-power
You could have the '61 Impala (or Biscayne, or Bel Aire, or whatever) with the big engine and the 4-speed, basically otherwise completely stripped down. In '61, there WAS no mid-sized Chevy (nothing to equate to the Tempest, F-85, and Skylark), just the Corvair, and B-O-P were NOT putting big engines into their compacts.
Okay, so since I gave the right answer, this thread is closed now... Right?
- Eric
October 16th, 2011, 08:04 AM
#100
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October 16th, 2011, 08:19 AM
#101
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That's my take to. I always understood the 50's era Dodge D100, Hemi equipped two door was considered the first. The hemi, dual exhaust and posi were all there back then.
October 16th, 2011, 10:14 AM
#102
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I did a little research......
Looks like RocketRaider was right for a change.
http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...cars-work1.htm
1949 Oldsmobile 88 was considered the first muscle car.
I'm not sure why they gave the honor to the 1964 GTO 15 years later when this car obviously was the first of it's kind for power and speed.
Not to mention the 1955 Chrysler 300 had 300hp damn near a decade BEFORE the GTO.
Sounds to me like magazines overshadowed this with the GTO and the Pontiac guys have been pushing it since.
Looks like RocketRaider was right for a change.
http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...cars-work1.htm
The growing public interest in speed and power gave birth to what many regard as the first muscle machine, the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88. It was a car any hot-rodder could understand: a powerful new engine in the lighter Olds body. And the engine was a breakthrough: America's first high-compression overhead-valve V-8, the result of research begun at General Motors well before the war.
1949 Oldsmobile 88 was considered the first muscle car.
I'm not sure why they gave the honor to the 1964 GTO 15 years later when this car obviously was the first of it's kind for power and speed.
Not to mention the 1955 Chrysler 300 had 300hp damn near a decade BEFORE the GTO.
Sounds to me like magazines overshadowed this with the GTO and the Pontiac guys have been pushing it since.
Last edited by Aceshigh; October 16th, 2011 at 10:18 AM.
October 20th, 2011, 08:14 PM
#103
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The 1962-3 Thunderbird did have 3x2 carbs as an option, but on the 390. There was no bigger motor until the 428 in 1966.
If you're going to consider the '61 409 the first muscle car, why stop there? Why not the '61 Ford with 390/401? Or the Ram-Inducted 383 Mopars from the same year?
Clearly, the 409 was not the first muscle car, much like a 17-second '55 Chrysler was not the first muscle car or an 18-second Olds wasn't the first muscle car.
In 1964, Pontiac came out with the GTO. In 1965, the rest of GM had a host of imitators. Chrysler couldn't figure it out yet, even though the 426-S was a strong machine, and Ford only had hi-po Mustangs, Fairlanes, and Comets aside of the big 427 cars. The GTO was the first muscle car, but there were muscle cars before the GTO. The 409 would be considered one of them, but the '49 88 would not.
If you're going to consider the '61 409 the first muscle car, why stop there? Why not the '61 Ford with 390/401? Or the Ram-Inducted 383 Mopars from the same year?
Clearly, the 409 was not the first muscle car, much like a 17-second '55 Chrysler was not the first muscle car or an 18-second Olds wasn't the first muscle car.
In 1964, Pontiac came out with the GTO. In 1965, the rest of GM had a host of imitators. Chrysler couldn't figure it out yet, even though the 426-S was a strong machine, and Ford only had hi-po Mustangs, Fairlanes, and Comets aside of the big 427 cars. The GTO was the first muscle car, but there were muscle cars before the GTO. The 409 would be considered one of them, but the '49 88 would not.
October 20th, 2011, 09:29 PM
#104
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This is an issue that will be debated forever. Part of the problem is there is no real definition of a muscle car. Me along with a lot of other people consider it the 64 GTO. But who is to say we are correct. I don't remember the first time I heard the term "muscle car" but it wasn't around in the 60's.
October 20th, 2011, 09:53 PM
#105
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Although Pontiac has no small block nor big block, since all engine configurations from the 301 to the 455 look the same (other than deck height in the 301's case)
The 1964 Pontiac GTO is considered to be the original Muscle Car, Olds followed suit with the 64' 442, but with only a 330 (police interceptor) it couldn't keep pace. (didn't have time to get the 400 in the 442 to compete in 64'. But in 65' they got the 400 and was able to run with the GOAT, by 66' Olds W-30 dominated. (too bad the tri-power option was only available for one year.
Another cool fact that all 64' 442's were all 4 spds, until 65' when you could get one with an automatic as well. So I guess in 65 442 stood for 400 engine, 4 brl. carb., 2 exhaust.
The 1964 Pontiac GTO is considered to be the original Muscle Car, Olds followed suit with the 64' 442, but with only a 330 (police interceptor) it couldn't keep pace. (didn't have time to get the 400 in the 442 to compete in 64'. But in 65' they got the 400 and was able to run with the GOAT, by 66' Olds W-30 dominated. (too bad the tri-power option was only available for one year.
Another cool fact that all 64' 442's were all 4 spds, until 65' when you could get one with an automatic as well. So I guess in 65 442 stood for 400 engine, 4 brl. carb., 2 exhaust.
October 21st, 2011, 12:58 AM
#106
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How about the British 1954 Morris Isis?, it was basically a Morris Cowley but it had a 2.6 liter six in place of the aneamic 1.5 liter four.
This fire breathing monster could top 90 mph on a good day!.
This fire breathing monster could top 90 mph on a good day!.
October 21st, 2011, 03:00 AM
#107
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Not a logical approach.
The 1964 GTO was only a 14.8 ET car in the 1/4 mile.
(source)A 2004 Honda Accord coupe 6 cyl did 14.5 ET in the 1/4 mile. (source)
So does that deny the GTO it's "Muscle Car" status since a 6 cylinder beat it 8 years ago??
Then why would the GTO's status deny the Olds 88's 15 years prior ??
Modern muscle cars are in the 11's and 12's from the factory.
Hell even 2006+ Honda Civic Si's are 14.5 ET cars these days with 4 cylinders.
That's the logic you're using if you think about it.
14.8 seconds isn't fast by 2011's standards, but it WAS very fast for 1964's standards.
Just like 18 Seconds wasn't fast by 60's standards, but it WAS very fast for 1949's standards.
Today just about every 6 cylinder family sedan can do 14's. It doesn't make previous
generations any less of a Muscle Car tho.
We're talking about an era
1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88 - the First Muscle Car
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...st.html?cat=27
History of Muscle Cars
http://tailfinsandchrome.com/automot...f-muscle-cars/
Hudson Hornet: Rocket 88′s only competitor
Opinions on the origin of the muscle car vary, but the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, created in response to public interest in speed and power, is often cited as the first of the breed. It featured an innovative and powerful new engine—America’s first high-compression overhead valve V8 in the smaller lighter Oldsmobile 76/Chevy body for 6 cylinder engines(as opposed to bigger Olds 98 luxury body).[9]
Musclecars magazine wrote: “[t]he idea of putting a full-size V8 under the hood of an intermediate body and making it run like Jesse Owens in Berlin belongs to none other than Oldsmobile… [The] all-new ohv V8…Rocket engine quickly found its way into the lighter 76 series body, and in February 1949, the new 88 series was born
Opinions on the origin of the muscle car vary, but the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, created in response to public interest in speed and power, is often cited as the first of the breed. It featured an innovative and powerful new engine—America’s first high-compression overhead valve V8 in the smaller lighter Oldsmobile 76/Chevy body for 6 cylinder engines(as opposed to bigger Olds 98 luxury body).[9]
Musclecars magazine wrote: “[t]he idea of putting a full-size V8 under the hood of an intermediate body and making it run like Jesse Owens in Berlin belongs to none other than Oldsmobile… [The] all-new ohv V8…Rocket engine quickly found its way into the lighter 76 series body, and in February 1949, the new 88 series was born
Last edited by Aceshigh; October 21st, 2011 at 04:01 AM.
October 21st, 2011, 03:35 AM
#108
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I may be wrong, but I believe it was a limited production option.
I'll post more if I should ever find those manuals (say, in several years
).- Eric
October 21st, 2011, 05:00 AM
#109
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I was stunned to find that Oldsmobile enthusiasts thought a stinkin' poncho was the first muscle car!
All wrong thinkers...drop and change your oil!
I would be embarrassed as hell if my handle was next to a thread sayin' a poncho was first! ROFL!!!
Hell, even wiki had it right...
Early muscle
1949 Rocket 88 engine
Hudson Hornet: Rocket 88's only competitor
Opinions on the origin of the muscle car vary, but the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, created in response to public interest in speed and power, is often cited as the first of the breed. It featured an innovative and powerful new engine—America's first high-compression overhead valve V8 in the smaller lighter Oldsmobile 76/Chevy body for 6 cylinder engines(as opposed to bigger Olds 98 luxury body).[9]
Musclecars magazine wrote: "[t]he idea of putting a full-size V8 under the hood of an intermediate body and making it run like Jesse Owens in Berlin belongs to none other than Oldsmobile... [The] all-new ohv V8...Rocket engine quickly found its way into the lighter 76 series body, and in February 1949, the new 88 series was born."[10]
The article continued: "Walt Woron of Motor Trend enjoyed the 'quick-flowing power...that pins you to your seat and keeps you there until you release your foot from the throttle [...] Olds dominated the performance landscape in 1950, including wins in the NASCAR Grand National division, Daytona Speed Weeks, and the 2100-plus-mile Carrera Panamericana. In (Belgium), an 88 won a production car race at Spa-Francorchamps [...] A husky V8 in a cleanly styled, lightweight coupe body, the original musclecar truly was the '49 Olds 88."[10]
Jack Nerad wrote in Driving Today: "the Rocket V-8 set the standard for every American V-8 engine that would follow it for at least three decades [...] With a displacement of 303 cubic inches and topped by a two-barrel carburetor, the first Rocket V-8 churned out 135 hp (101 kW; 137 PS) at 3,600 rpm and 263 pound-feet of torque at a lazy 1800 rpm [and] no mid-range car in the world, save the Hudson Hornet, came close to the Rocket Olds performance potential..."
Nerad added that the Rocket 88 was "the hit of NASCAR’s 1950 season, winning eight of the 10 races. Given its lightning-like success, one could clearly make the case that the Olds 88 with its 135 horsepower (101 kW) V-8 was the first 'musclecar'..."[11]
Steve Dulcich, writing in Popular Hot Rodding, also cites Oldsmobile, concurrently with Cadillac, as having "launched the modern era of the high-performance V-8 with the introduction of the "Rocket 88" overhead-valve V8 in 1949."[12]
I had to edit my post......
Turns out we've all been duped into believing this.
Rocket Raider was right.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...Rocket-88.aspx
The Pontiac GTO in 1964 was targeted towards an already EXISTING market of muscle cars
and was MARKETED as the 1st Muscle Car......when in fact it was not the 1st.
All wrong thinkers...drop and change your oil!
I would be embarrassed as hell if my handle was next to a thread sayin' a poncho was first! ROFL!!!
Hell, even wiki had it right...
Early muscle
1949 Rocket 88 engine
Hudson Hornet: Rocket 88's only competitor
Opinions on the origin of the muscle car vary, but the 1949 Oldsmobile Rocket 88, created in response to public interest in speed and power, is often cited as the first of the breed. It featured an innovative and powerful new engine—America's first high-compression overhead valve V8 in the smaller lighter Oldsmobile 76/Chevy body for 6 cylinder engines(as opposed to bigger Olds 98 luxury body).[9]
Musclecars magazine wrote: "[t]he idea of putting a full-size V8 under the hood of an intermediate body and making it run like Jesse Owens in Berlin belongs to none other than Oldsmobile... [The] all-new ohv V8...Rocket engine quickly found its way into the lighter 76 series body, and in February 1949, the new 88 series was born."[10]
The article continued: "Walt Woron of Motor Trend enjoyed the 'quick-flowing power...that pins you to your seat and keeps you there until you release your foot from the throttle [...] Olds dominated the performance landscape in 1950, including wins in the NASCAR Grand National division, Daytona Speed Weeks, and the 2100-plus-mile Carrera Panamericana. In (Belgium), an 88 won a production car race at Spa-Francorchamps [...] A husky V8 in a cleanly styled, lightweight coupe body, the original musclecar truly was the '49 Olds 88."[10]
Jack Nerad wrote in Driving Today: "the Rocket V-8 set the standard for every American V-8 engine that would follow it for at least three decades [...] With a displacement of 303 cubic inches and topped by a two-barrel carburetor, the first Rocket V-8 churned out 135 hp (101 kW; 137 PS) at 3,600 rpm and 263 pound-feet of torque at a lazy 1800 rpm [and] no mid-range car in the world, save the Hudson Hornet, came close to the Rocket Olds performance potential..."
Nerad added that the Rocket 88 was "the hit of NASCAR’s 1950 season, winning eight of the 10 races. Given its lightning-like success, one could clearly make the case that the Olds 88 with its 135 horsepower (101 kW) V-8 was the first 'musclecar'..."[11]
Steve Dulcich, writing in Popular Hot Rodding, also cites Oldsmobile, concurrently with Cadillac, as having "launched the modern era of the high-performance V-8 with the introduction of the "Rocket 88" overhead-valve V8 in 1949."[12]
I had to edit my post......
Turns out we've all been duped into believing this.
Rocket Raider was right.
http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z...Rocket-88.aspx
The Pontiac GTO in 1964 was targeted towards an already EXISTING market of muscle cars
and was MARKETED as the 1st Muscle Car......when in fact it was not the 1st.
Last edited by 67 442; October 21st, 2011 at 05:03 AM.
October 21st, 2011, 05:03 AM
#110
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This thread content has been the subject of countless threads, discussions, etc. over the years. And every one I've witnessed has been as vague, rambling, and directionless as this one.
The OP said "Muscle Car..What car is considered the first?"
How in the world can there be any resemblance of definitive answer to that question without:
1. The word "musclecar" being defined.
2. "considered" by who? being answered.
How can "the first" of anything be discussed without having and clear definition of what one is talking about?
I don't get it.
The OP said "Muscle Car..What car is considered the first?"
How in the world can there be any resemblance of definitive answer to that question without:
1. The word "musclecar" being defined.
2. "considered" by who? being answered.
How can "the first" of anything be discussed without having and clear definition of what one is talking about?
I don't get it.
October 21st, 2011, 05:12 AM
#112
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Well, I don't think I have my 1962 Thunderbird manual with the 1963 supplement anymore, so I can't look this up, but I distinctly remember a section on the 427, and I notice that RockAuto lists a 427 as one of the engine options on the 1963.
I may be wrong, but I believe it was a limited production option.
- Eric
I may be wrong, but I believe it was a limited production option.
- Eric
October 21st, 2011, 06:51 AM
#115
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I agree the Olds 88, Rambler Rebel, Hudson Hornet, were all the most powerful of their day!! But Chrysler was at the forefront of big engines in smaller production cars!! I think the B Bodies were the beginning of the muscle car era! Everything after that was chasing Chrysler!
Last edited by oldcutlass; October 21st, 2011 at 08:43 AM.
May 16th, 2012, 08:06 PM
#117
May 17th, 2012, 08:08 AM
#118
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Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 238
The 1964 GTO was the first. The term muscle car came out in the 60's, and it was used to define the GTO category. There were no muscle cars before the GTO. There were powerful cars, but there were no muscle cars.
Don't rewrite history.
The 49 Olds 88 was not the first OHV V8, it was the 49 Cadillac. Olds being the first modern OHV V8 is a myth, handed down by Olds fans over and over again, and now people just grab crap off the web and write articles. The 49 Cadillac beat the 49 Olds to the showrooms by a couple months.
Cadillac began their V8 design before WWII. They stopped their development before the war, then picked it up again post-war. Olds jumped into the mix very late, and rushed their design out to beat Cadillac.
Since Cadillac was not known as a high-perf car, and there are very few Cadillac fans compared to Oldsmobile fans, this myth that Olds developed the first OHV V8 (and the first muscle car) continues to go unchecked.
The fledgling Motor Trend magazine's very first "Car Of The Year Award" came down to the Ford, Cadillac, and Oldsmobile. They gave their award to the 1949 Cadillac.
Directly from the 1949 magazine :
"The Cadillac was chosen in preference to the Olds because, while both have outstanding new V-8 engines which are similar, they are not by any means the same. The Cadillac, with 10 per cent more piston displacement than the Olds, develops 18.5 per cent more bhp and weighs a few pounds less."
And again, the 1964 GTO was the first muscle car.
Don't rewrite history.
The 49 Olds 88 was not the first OHV V8, it was the 49 Cadillac. Olds being the first modern OHV V8 is a myth, handed down by Olds fans over and over again, and now people just grab crap off the web and write articles. The 49 Cadillac beat the 49 Olds to the showrooms by a couple months.
Cadillac began their V8 design before WWII. They stopped their development before the war, then picked it up again post-war. Olds jumped into the mix very late, and rushed their design out to beat Cadillac.
Since Cadillac was not known as a high-perf car, and there are very few Cadillac fans compared to Oldsmobile fans, this myth that Olds developed the first OHV V8 (and the first muscle car) continues to go unchecked.
The fledgling Motor Trend magazine's very first "Car Of The Year Award" came down to the Ford, Cadillac, and Oldsmobile. They gave their award to the 1949 Cadillac.
Directly from the 1949 magazine :
"The Cadillac was chosen in preference to the Olds because, while both have outstanding new V-8 engines which are similar, they are not by any means the same. The Cadillac, with 10 per cent more piston displacement than the Olds, develops 18.5 per cent more bhp and weighs a few pounds less."
And again, the 1964 GTO was the first muscle car.
May 17th, 2012, 09:00 AM
#119
Trying to remember member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,112
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