Cpriester123

Anyone purchased one of the following 2 radiators? Thoughts and opinions? Pros and cons? Did ALOT of reading on both because I want to upgrade but wasn't sure which way to go. Thanks guys

patmac

I've been researching the same thing. I'm on a budget so I went with the Champion American Eagle 2 row with 1" tubes and the added fans.

http://www.championradiators.com/Ame...roud-1966-1977

Durf

Bought a 4 core champion for my73 hurst put in a 180 mister gasket thermosat. Now when it 90 deg out and I flat foot the 468 under the hood never gets above 190deg.
So my votes for Champion

76olds

I purchased the 2 row 1" tube rad from Be Cool, all the welds are uniform, very well built rad. I haven't seen a Champion rad so I can't comment on the quality.
Be Cool is made in the U.S so you can be sure your getting to notch quality.
I have no complaints with my Be Cool rad.

Cpriester123

So how were your results? Did you have cooling problems before your purchase?

Cpriester123

Cool deal man thanks. Did you have cooling problems before the Champion radiator? If so, what were your high temps? And do you have a shroud and clutch fan?

Cpriester123

Cool man. How's your temps after the Be Cool and what was it like before it?

patmac

Just ordered last night so I'll post some pics when it arrives. The engine is out getting rebuilt so figured it would be a good idea to upgrade the radiator at the same time. I live in AZ so it will be put to the test and will post results in a couple months.

76olds

I had a 3 row copper rad with a 195 t-stat, on a good hot day my 76 would hit 230 in traffic, I'd just put the defrost on heat and sweat it out. Generally 210-215 was where it would sit on the gauge.

The 2 row Be-Cool with a 195 t-stat runs anywhere between 195-205.
The Champion rads seem to be a better deal, I didn't check them out when I was looking for an aluminum rad.
Hope this helps
Eric

Cpriester123

Definitely helps I appreciate it. Do you have AC? Like a condenser in front of the radiator? And what about your fan set up? Electric fans or clutch fan? Shroud? I'm just asking because our stories are exact. I'm hitting 215 easily and have tried everything, the only thing I haven't tried yet is upgrading my radiator

76olds

I removed the A/C, bought a new clutch and 6 blade fan (not a flex fan), still using the full factory shroud. Also put in the aluminum high flow Miloden water pump.

Eric

Fun71

I'm in Phoenix too. Quite a few years ago Joe Varley from the AZ Olds Club recommended a radiator shop to install a 4 row high efficiency core into my factory 3 row end tanks and that has worked very well. 110º out, AC on, 70 MPH on the highway and the engine runs around 200º. If I slow sown below 2800 RPM the temp drops to 190º and holds there. I don't even worry about in town driving.

Durf

When the stock radiator (4 core) went @11 years ago I replaced it with 3 core.
Last year rebuilt the 455 with a little kick, and lots of cash. Now she is a boatload of smiles. With the 3 core and a 190 thermosate would run 195/215 when flat footed. This is with stock shroud and clutched prop I mean 6 blade fan. As I stated before with 4 core champion and 180 mister gasget much cooler have yet to hit 200 degs.

Cpriester123

Thanks Durf...one more question if I may.....do you have an AC condenser in front of your radiator?

76olds

Are you still having overheating problems due to the Vintage air set-up ?

Cpriester123

It's the only thing I could think of that could cause it bc it didn't over heat before it was installed. So yea it's still over heating. I'm online now looking at radiators. I've tried everything except a new radiator. And this over heating is WITHOUT the AC on.

franks71cutlass

Go with the Champion! I have ran my 3 core w/ac for three yrs! Its extremely hot here at summer, its never ever gone over 195 degrees! Even when we fired up my total rebuild of the 350 in my 71 cutlass supreme it didn't over heat for the break in process! Can't say enough about their Quality, built in the good old USA!! OH, buy the way I'm running factory clutch fan, and shroud, everything fits like factory orginal !

76olds

What rad is in the car now? Copper 2 row or 3 row ? Are the fins loose between the tubes in any spots? Is the water pump ok, see good flow through the rad with the cap off?
By the sounds of the responses a Champion rad may be a good deal, Be Cool rads are much more expensive.
Before I removed my AC I had a 3 row copper core and it cooled very good, don't underestimate copper cooling. 4 row copper core rads are very good. I only went with the aluminium for the weight reduction.
Kenneth (Fun71) haven't had any issues with his rad, I would take that into serious consideration as well.

Eric

Cpriester123

Thanks Eric and right now it is a 3 row copper. Fins are fine all the way around. When the thermostat opens you can see real good flow. One reason someone suggested it might be the radiator is because when I get home from a short 10min ride and reaching 220....I can spray water slowly on the radiator and in less than 1min the temp drops from 220 to 190 immediately. A 30 degree drop in less than a min. He said it's almost like cooling the source of the problem because the radiator is not keeping the coolant cool like it should. But either way I just placed my order for a 4 row aluminum rad from Champion. So we shall see when it arrives

76olds

Sounds good, the 4 row should do it. Let us know how it worked out after the install. I'm really surprised that the 3 row copper core is overheating the engine especially if its in good shape.

Durf

No not any more, but the older I get I might just hook it back up . It was 90 degs out today. Went to local car show after work today wife was with me temp never got past @ 185. Funny thing damn car get better gas mileage with her riding shotgun too. Just not as many smiles.

patmac

I'm not sure what the difference between Champion and American Eagle is but they have the same address so I think they could be the same company. The American Eagle 2 core with 1" tubes showed up today and it looks well constructed. I attached a ledfoot shroud and fans. Here are some pictures compared to the auto zone brass 4 core. What stood out right away was how many more fins there were. When the engine goes back in I'll let you know how well it cools but for less than $400 I'm happy so far.

tmaleck

I have the Champion 3 row in my 67 as well. I added my own fans, and hooked them to the EFI controller. So far I've added 2.5 gallons of 50/50 and after bleeding it still wants more. It seems well built, we'll see for sure next weekend. BTW, I had to change the saddle cushions, they were too small for the tanks.
Tim

therobski

Tmaleck-just chimed in on this thread. If your not satisfied with the results on your 67, a Suburban radiator is a drop fit in a 67 core support ( certain year). Texas heat, my 67 455 stays between 160 and 180 degrees at the most a stock fan blade. I did install a Champion in the 64 F-85 Pro touring build with dual electric fans. Have not started the car yet. FYI-a Champion radiator for a 64-65 GTO is a drop fit in 64 Cutlass core support. PATMAC did not mean to jump your thread just offering info....Robski

76olds

I hope you guys are installing a high flow impeller water pump with a high flow t-stat so it will flow through the new 4 row rads properly, even the 2 row 1" tubes could use a new water pump and t-stat. Jus' sayin'
I hope you guys report back with your findings on these rads.

Cheers
Eric

patmac

Is there an optimal operating temp for a F block 455? What tstat temp would you recommend for an AZ car?

Thanks!

Stevec

I went with Ron Davis and if I remember correctly they were cheaper than Be Cool. It's got 2 huge Spal fans on it and the overall quality of this radiator was EXCELLENT!

76olds

Kenneth (Fun71) would be the best guy to ask about a t-stat and keeping your car running cool in AZ.

Eric

Fun71

I use a Mr Gasket high flow 180º thermostat from the local O'Reilly Auto parts store.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...3442&ppt=C0331

patmac

Sounds good. Thanks for the info!

Cpriester123

UPDATE: Hey guys just to give you all an update...I received my Champion 4 row all aluminum radiator last week and with a few modifications for a nicertain fit I must say I am VERY PLEASED. Before, I was hitting close to 220 in temps on a hot day just on a regular cruise for about 10min doing 45mph. Now I can hit the road at that same speed and I'm barely past 180. Very well built radiator. Even with the AC on I may hit 190 now depending on the weather and speed. Champion radiators are highl recommended in my opinion!

JohnnyBs68S

Here's another thumbs up for Champion. I installed a 3-row aluminum radiator last summer, fits great. The one radiator hose neck seemed to be a little undersized, but using the shipping "cap" that was installed on it and cutting out the center, I was able to fill the gap between the neck and hose without over-clamping the hose and causing a leaky wrinkle. Great quality, and the polished aluminum tanks could be mistaken for chrome (just had a guy mention that to me about an hour ago). I should also mention that the cap that came w/ the radiator didn't seal right and I ended up getting a replacement from Auto-Zone.


Cooling-wise, previously my stock 350-2bbl didn't have any issues w/ the 4-row re-cored brass radiator the Champion replaced w/ a clutch fan and factory shroud. That setup, however, was a big step up from the original 2-row brass radiator and "thin-bladed" clutch-less aluminum fan, which always seemed to overheat in traffic after my dad installed an aftermarket (under-dash) A/C unit back in '76. That fan was advertised to increase power by reduce loading on the engine (by pulling less air obviously), and I think dad was thinking that was needed to offset the load added by the A/C. Of course, back in those days getting stuck in traffic was much less likely and wasn't a big consideration for him. Bottom line, I believe the Champion cools at least as good, if not better, than the 4-row brass radiator it replaced.

RetroRanger

what car and what radiator, i see the mc161 on ebay but it says it doesnt fit my 72 w BBO?

I need a new radiator and champion looks like the one for me...

Cpriester123

I have a 1969 Cutlass S. And I went with the biggest one I saw, the 4 row. Here's a link for the one I purchased www.championradiators.com/product/MC161

olds 307 and 403

There is a lot of argument about which is better, 2 large cores or 4 small cores. Good to know Champion makes a large 2 core as well. I had the Champion 3 core G body rad, it was well made and had no leaks. With a 160 thermostat my 403 ran between 190-205, not impressive. I have a slightly wider 2, 1" core that ran cooler by had a slight leak. I got it sealed but now cools like crap but a 260 is going in the Gbody, so I care not. I think my 88 CSC is just a challenge to cool, has all the factory air dams in place. The Champion 3 core G body rad never got above 180 in the Olds powered 4x4, till it burnt, tells me air flow.

L77F85

I bought a 3 row aluminum champion radiator for my 65 442 & ended up returning it for 2 reasons....

1) it was slightly tweaked.... when laying it down on a flat surface one corner was about an inch off the table.

2) I didn't want to have to fabricate new upper & lower mounting brackets to mount the radiator to the support since the car is mostly stock

In the end I opted to have my original repaired for $80. Around here getting old brass radiators fixed is a dying art.... probably because of epa laws & such. I know a guy here in San Diego if anyone locally needs one done.

My442

The best aluminum radiators were made by Alumitech......but they went out of business.

My old car with that radiator, factory clutch fan and shroud, and a 180 degree high flow thermostat would NEVER get over 180 degrees, even on q 95 degree day.

I used to check the thermostat housing with a IR heat gun to verify.

oldsonharmont

Ken,

I realize this is an older post, but which radiator shop did you use in the Phoenix area to convert your core from 3 to 4 rows? I'm doing my engine swap later this month, and will be looking at cooling right away. Thanks.

Fun71

I don't remember the name of the shop, and I don't even know if it is still there. It was in Scottsdale near 90th and Via Linda in an area with a lot of automotive shops but I searched online maps for it a few years ago and didn't see it.


https://www.google.com/maps/search/a....8872754,18.5z


I have the part number for the 4 row core written down on a pad in my tool box at home, so I can post that later for you. The shop owner said it was only available as a core so only radiator shops would have access to it, and it likely doesn't really matter which shop - as long as the core is still being made. With everything being made from aluminum these days it may not be available.

olds 307 and 403

This is a good thread. As said, radiator shops are disappearing fast. My BIL's family ran a rad shop for years. They basically had to transition to small motor and propane system repairs to survive. I imagine cheap Chinese rads along with tougher regulations are to blame. My recored 2 core is seeping, it will need upgraded with the Stroker rad. The American Eagle 2 core looks really nice for the money.