Lady72nRob71

I have decided that I am going through with this if it kills me...
FOR UPDATES, SCROLL DOWN...

Okay, while I have Lady (a 1972) all torn apart, the ongoing fantasy of power windows has returned...
("Might as well while she is all apart (again)", I keep saying...)

OPG, Parts Place, and some other places sell bolt in conversion kits.
Has anyone used one of these kits or know about the success of the installation and the reliability of the products??

Geez... One seat tear and dirty carpet led to all this now...
She is getting just as expensive as a lady, especially around the holidays!

PS- check my posting number: 442!

Bluevista

All convertibles should have power windows, makes life so much easier. You just press buttons and do the latches to get ready to go or put it away.

Don't have any experience with those kits. Personally I would go all GM to maintain the Olds C'hi and keep it in harmony with the universe.

What about power door locks?

citcapp

Just bought a power window kit on e-bay for 90 bucks, will be installing it in December. I'll keep you posted

7244too

If you use the factory setup it's a fairly easy swap. Having a donor car that you can take pics of how things were run and fastened definately helps. My biggest concern would be the holes that need to be drilled for the boots in the front of the doors and behind your kick panels. It is not a hard thing to do if your doors are taken off. How about those new door panels you got with the interior kit. Are they going to work? Just some questions for you to consider. I ran in to this same situation with my 70 Challenger R/T. Found a complete setup after (figures) the car was completely restored. Wanted to add the option so badly but just didn't want to risk messing up any finish work. If you were planning a repaint I'd say go for it. Don't get me wrong, with some care and finesse and some extra hands it's not that hard. No experience with aftermarket setups other than helping friends with street rods. If you're talking the cable setups they are nice but you may need to drill for mounting or even have to weld something in. Factory is a bolt in. Like AMH555 suggested, if you're thinking about PL's that's the time to do it. Fisher body manual would help also. Just my $.02...Gery.

Bluevista

I was wondering how you drill those holes too. We use the steel knockout punches at work for electrical boxes and the like. You only need to drill about a 5/16" hole then put it together and wrench it and it pops a nice clean hole.
If you can get the hole through and access to the back to thread on the die you got it made.
I think you could do it without pulling the doors, worth a try anyway.

Allan

http://www.toolup.com/greenlee/holem...ndard-punches/

oldsconv

I added PW to my 70 Chevelle years ago and will be adding them to my 70 SX Conv. i would go with factory set-up, but they are getting hard to find. I got mine from junkyard cars and took everything off imagineable to make sure I had all parts, wiring, etc. Note, the dimples are all there for mounting - i think the rear regulators mount in same holes as manual Windows, but front you need to drill factory dimples which put it at 45 degrees off from the manual regulator- makes sense when you see it. On my Chevelle, I measured the junkyard window switches and it turned out the 3 single switches were all in the same spot as the crank handle was - I just had to square up the hole in the door panels with a chisel. The drivers door - the long rectange for the switch covered up the crank hole - I think the crank hole was all the way on the left of the rectangle once you cut it out.

For wiring boots - I borrowed metal holesaws and drilled them. You can buy these are hardware store - different than the cheap wood holesawas obviously. Good ones will not walk or wobble, so the hole size is clean and correct. If they wobble, the hole is too big. Factory hole diameter should be 2.5 inches on door jamb and 2 inches on door itself.

And yes - I agree you need PW on a convertible. I hate it when I see people driving with their top down and only the rear windows up - looks goofy.

Bluevista

Those are big holes oldsconv, they may not make those knockout punches that big.

I enjoy sticking my nose in this type stuff so I checked out those power window kits and was surprised.
Thought they would be those funky ones with the cable drive but they're basically the same as the originals with design differences, look good.

They are probably better than GM as they say on the site (especially worn out used ones) unless you're a real purist.
The price isn't bad either, used aren't much less.
Do they have them for convertibles? Or is there a difference? It says for 69-72 coupe.

They need them for Vista Cruisers but probably not enough demand.
The Vista Cruisers are to Cutlass (or Cutlii as Joe P. says ) like Macs are to pc's, not a lot around.

http://www.early-birds.ca/part-39486.html

Allan

Allan R

Hey Rob,
I know what you mean about the options. I bought a completely refurbished (man this setup looks like it was just built by GM) power window setup from a guy on ebay. $500.00 is not cheap, but he also offered a 2 year guarantee on the parts, plus it includes all the switches (NOS), A pillar boots, relay, regulators, rollers, installation instructions, attaching hardware.... Packed to survive a hurricane! Since I went new with the hardware, I also bought all new tinted glass for the sides.

Since my car is a fastback, I wanted to be able to put all the windows down for ventilation since I don't have air. Stopping to roll them up and down is such a pain. One of the biggest things you've got to do is make sure your grounds are really good. That's one of the major problems with power options back in the day.

Since you're doing the PW, may as well put in the PDL and P Trunk too. Never have a better chance to organize the wiring to the back than while the interiors out.

"Lady" needs to be elegant and a show off. Post what supplier you use on the PW options. I'm trying to keep my car OEM, but it costs way more than aftermarket options.

Did you get a cruise unit installed yet? I know you were looking for one but I don't know if you were able to get one.

Lady72nRob71

Yep, they should all have PW, especially since these old cars are SO WIDE! I cannot stretch over that far to crank the passenger window down!

Olds C'hi? Is that like the Feng Shui of Oldsmobile??

Power locks were added last year!
However, one of the switches is bad already. The alarm system made for keyless entry, too!

Lady72nRob71

Yes, the kits I am thinking on getting are a factory bolt in type setup. I do not want to modify anything.

The boot holes in the door and cowl areas are my biggest issues. Taking the doors off will be a pain, but that will be a time the hinges can be refreshed, too. Just need to round up a helper or two...

The door panels should work, as the crank holes just need to be squared off for the switches. The switches mount in these exact locations from what I have seen so far...

Lady72nRob71

Damn good idea!! While hunting through the toolbox at work for a tap on Friday, i ran across a set of these hole cutters, and I think there IS one big enough!!
I know I used a 2" one long ago when i built a stereo tube amp, so big ones DO exist... Now is the metal too thick for the ones at work? I shall find out...

I have a small boot there with a 1/2 in hole; they are for the speaker wires and the wiring for the power locks I put in last year.

This is a great idea!!

Lady72nRob71

Good points on the grounds - the hinge pins may not be the best source...

PDL are installed and work great, except for a bad switch. Window switches do not sub due to higher current of the locks...

Trunk lock solenoids are about as rare as hen's teeth, so i gave up on that, although it would be nice.

The Parts Place has two kits, a standard and an OEM style. I will call them tomorrow and see what the differences are.
It is HARD to find true OEM style switches. Also, some kits even include icky plastic switches.

I did get most of the cruise control setup, except the bracket for the servo, the hose "Y" and a hard-to-find O-ring for the brake switch.
A local classic car boneyard quoted me 45 bucks for just the bracket, so i may just make my own. And since flea bay no longer allows real, conventional payments, I do not go there anymore.

Yep, Lady will indeed be a big show-off after all this (as if she wasn't before!)

Lady72nRob71

For 1972, the front doors already have the holes there and drilled, but I think two holes need to be drilled for each of the rear.
I will need to recheck this.

Good info on the switch cutout on the door panel. In 72, the metal for the switches is already cut to accomidate the long switch, so just trim mods wil be needed.

Looks like i will spend the bucks and go for it!

Yep, PW will be very convenient for a convertible, especially for long trips when weather conditions change often.

hamm36

I am not promoting "flea" bay, but you can always email the seller and ask if they will take M/O, or check, etc... I also hate PayPals, but it sure make it easy to turn loose of your money and no running to the Post Office, or bank.

Bluevista

Sounds like a plan Rob. You won't know how you lived without power windows after you're finished.
I actually had a good idea for once? hope those knockout punches work.
Find an old piece of sheet metal the same gauge and make swiss cheese out of it.

Ever see those guys cut circles with a plasma cutter and jig? I can do it on a table saw, with wood of course. There was a crazy carpenter/cabinetmaker I apprenticed with that had a thing for table saw tricks and taught me everything he knew, ever Formica a truck? I have.

Allan

Lady72nRob71

Okay, this PW kit thing is becoming a real bear, and that's just out of the box!...
Here is what I found out so far...

Now before buying anything, I did a bit of research on the two commercially available kits from Nu Relics and Electric Life. These have non-OEM style motors and wiring configurations and come with featherweight chromed plastic switches that are mid-late 70’s square style, but they have a middle "ring" in the bezel - not OEM looking.

SOooo, I opted for the custom "OEM" kit that The Parts Place sells.
From what a lady there told me, they put together their own kit from separate OEM style parts and package it up as a kit. For not much more, it is supposed to look and mount just like stock. I decided to bite the bullet and buy it for 799…

It came in yesterday and several things were not true about it.
FIRST, it came with rounded 69 & 70 style metal switches.
SECOND, the door boots are incorrect, BUT they warned of that ahead of time...
THIRD, they do not package it themselves, but it come prepackaged from Auto City Classic. Their site sells it as 70-72 and includes the incorrect rounded switches.

I am now in a battle match with the Parts Place, as they are very defensive about it. They still stand by the claims of OEM style, even thought the switches are not.
--Their suggestion: Since there are "no repros" of the OEM square switches, I must use their new GM switches that will cost me another 250 bucks, and that is if I return these rounded ones!

No deal, and they gave me a false statement... Fusick sells repros of the square switches for not much more than the rounded ones. I talked to a guy at Fusick and he confirmed what he had. He says he does not sell PW kits because of the headaches they bring. He also did not talk nicely about the guys at the PP, and bap...

I did offer to compromise to the PP guy: if he can find some good used square switches, I would take those in direct exchange for these rounded ones.
He said to call back in a few hours and I will see what they can do.
In the mean time I will do some more research.

Perhaps i am picky, but my square OEM door lock switches next to rounded ones will grab the attention of any car show judge - see picture. I want this car to look right, the way it should.
Attached are pictures of this kit and the included switches...

TBC...

Allan R

Rob,
Maybe I'm out of line with this but....
why not just return what you're not happy with? Like the whole thing. Then buy a proper working set out of the web with specific door switches for 71 / 72? I would expand my search to Chebby, Buick, Pontiac parts because they're all the same for A Bodies in those years. I know you can get them for a whole lot less than 799. (Wowsers, that's an incredible pile of cash for something that youre not happy with). I also know there's nos parts or close to them for just the switches for quite a bit less than 250.
Hope you get the problem with PP resolved. I've never had problems dealing with them in the past.

Bluevista

I wouldn't settle for those switches either, especially with the lock switches right there. The set-up looks pretty good other than that.
If the car has power door locks what kind of wiring boots are used for those?

You inspired me so I started going through my parts and figuring things out and was surprised that I had everything to do the power locks and windows for the Vista. Just have to replace two rollers I have on order and make the holes for the boots. Otherwise all installed, tested and everything actually works.

Lady72nRob71

Okay, so things are looking up.
A couple days ago I had a big arguement with Joe at the Parts Place, who insisted the switches were not for my year but were OEM correct, meaning correct but incorrect and nothing was misleading...
This reminded me of the dead parrot skit in Monty Python...

The next day, we came to an agreement. If I returned the incorrect switches, he would either credit me back 150 bucks or he would exchange with a used set of square switches.
I opted for the credit, as I found used switches to often have corroded, pitted contacts inside and stop working after a short time. There is no way to open them, either.

So, I ordered repros of the single switch through Rock Auto, although their discount code would not take. They were only 10 bucks each but looked good in the picture. I'll report on them when i get them.
I got some other stuff there as well.

The 4-gang switch for the drivers side will come from Fusick, as they are the only one who sells a repro of it. Not sure why...

In all, I almost broke even. I will proceed with installing this "OEM" kit by Auto City Classics (ACC). It is available on their website for less, too.

The boots that come with the kit do not look correct, so i may order the right ones, depending on the hole sizes required. I plan to redo the doors (again...) in the spring.
I already had a small 1/2" rubber conduit for the door speaker wiring, so when I installed the power locks, I crammed the three 10gauge lock wires through them with the help of soapy water. Nothing else will fit.

The ACC wiring harness has OEM type connections on it, so factory OEM switches will work with it - I verified. The Electric life and Nu relics sets use the 80's type switches, which are wired differently - each single switch gets 5 wires, whereas 1964-1978 Olds A bodies use 3 wires per single switch.

I installed the wiring yesterday but was not too impressed with the lengths of the different segments. However, after installing it a little differently than they intended, it worked out. The connectors, wiring and tape job were okay.

ONE THING TO CONSIDER: The wiring for this kit crosses to the right side under the carpet under the front seats, not under the dash like stock! Luckily, I have no carpet installed, so that was not an issue. The harness also comes with a connector (w/ 12 ga wire) for power seat if you wish to install one.

The motors and regulators look very similar to stock ones and require the "other" dimpled set of holes drilled in the rear quarter. The holes are already there in the doors.
The frames of the regs are heavy stamped steel, while the Nu Relics are extruded aluminum... Also, the Nu Relics kit's rear regs bolt in place of the manual reg., no extra drilling required.

TBC...

Jamesbo

In this economy with as many forums, boards, blogs etc. I am amazed that companies don't understand the harm their "customer no service" people are doing to their bottom line.

Bad PR spreads like wildfire, It just doesn't make good business sense to spend money on advertsing and then have you reputation destroyed on the Net over a relatively small amount of money.

It's just stupid.

Lady72nRob71

Lady72nRob71

I know how that is... I wanted to confront them about their annoying and contradicting "on-hold" recording that said how special the customer is, the holidays are when people are so much more generous, customers are "first priority", etc...

On the opposide side of the fence, I ordered the Nu Relics PW kit last year from OPG. Being a newbie and not on this forum, I did not know how to mount the front reg. I talked to their tech support and sent them pics of my door. The guy there could not figure it out either, so he said my car was "unique" and sent me a fedex return label and got a FULL refund. A month later I realized I was just supposed to use a different set of holes in the door that were already there...
OPG tech support is not too knowledgable, but their customer service was great.

citcapp

Hope this all works out well for you. When I get home from vacation I have a power window kit to install in my 57 Olds hardtop. Hope to not have the problems you have had.

Lady72nRob71

What kind if kit did you get and where did you get it?
Did the 57 offer PW as an option? I am thinking yes, and in that case, it should not be TOO difficult... I will keep my progress posted.

Bluevista

I worked on mine a little today, drilled the rear boot holes with a hole saw. It worked fine, just kept it lubricated with oil and took my time. I'm going to take off the front doors tomorrow and do those boot holes and attempt to run the front harness.

That front harness has to be fed in through the hole on the left cowl then down through the hole above the relay and then across the car.
I'm wondering how difficult it's going to be getting it across there? looks tight.

Otherwise a piece of cake so far You should have lots of band-aids or duct tape and paper towels on hand, that sheet metal inside the doors bites.


Allan

citcapp

Can't remember the kit name, bought it on evil bay for $119.00. Yes the 57's did have a power window option. The directions don't look to tough. When I get home I will post the manufacture

Lady72nRob71

Do you recall the diameter of the holes and what kind of boot you are using?

Running that big harness across the car under the dash will be a bit of a pain, but is doable. Taking off the A/C plenum may gain you mare wiggle room. I find having no seats installed makes underdash work easier on your back!

I wear long sleeve sweatshirts and thickster nitrile gloves when working in doors and quarters. I learned that after having my arm look like it was run across a cheese grater...

What year is your VC??

Jamesbo

Before working on a car,I like to get in shape by running a wood rasp over my knuckles and dunking my hands in a bucket of kerosene.

Bluevista

The Vista Cruiser is a '71, 350 2 barrel. It has factory cruise, steering, brakes, air and am-fm stereo so may as well load it up the rest of the way.
I have to find a tilt column next, more so I can fit in the car than anything else.
I'm using the stock GM boots that are on the harnesses. I'm going out now to take the doors off and drill those front holes and I can get the exact sizes. They measure bigger than they should be, I went about 3/8" smaller on the rears and they fit perfectly.


I was searching around and this guy has a few pointers, same type hole saw I used on the rears and oil technique. I won't let WD-40 anywhere near my car before it's painted though, just the basic 3 in 1 type to lubricate the saw, slow speed. Luckily I had a 3 way female connector like he shows with an eyelet end that goes on the circuit breaker threaded post, need it for the window and lock feeds.

http://www.buickperformance.com/PW.htm



I'm usually pretty careful but I slashed myself on one of the cutouts from the hole that dropped into the door.
The worse injury I got on this car was on the edge of the turkey pan manifold gasket while assembling the engine, the 3fiddy has been consecrated in blood.

I perfer battery acid in my cuts jamesbo

Allan

Lady72nRob71

The single window switches arrived from Rock Auto within just a couple days. It is the Dorman “HELP” # 94245. This is the replacement for the original GM 1725094 single switch. NOTE: The Dorman switch comes WITH the clips!
I had also ordered 8 of the retaining clips, Dorman # 49272, in assumption that they did not come with the switch. Now each pack contains 5 pieces, so now I have 40 clips I do not need… I will see if I can return them.
Here is a comparison of the Dorman switch (left) and old GM (right).

Both are metal and the finish is just a little different. Not bad for the cost, though!
The 4-button switch (GM #1731231) is not offered by Dorman and is a bit harder to find… I will order it from Fusick along with some other stuff…


Allan,
That was a good link; it gave me a few more tips before tackling this project.

James,
I will try the rasp and kero trick. I can use all the prepping I can get!

citcapp

When ever I work on my cars I end up looking like I was in the middle of a cat fight holding then by their tails. Blood everywere. Sheet metal work is the worst. Those door switchs are a very good match. Let us know how things turn out

Bluevista

I spent all day working on the Vista and got the boot holes drilled and the PITA harness ran across the dash.
The doors came off with no problem, just did it myself with the jack technique. I used a 2x2 intead of a 2x4 and held it with zip ties through the drain holes to keep it from slipping and it also held it off the floor when I was drilling it.

The front holes were 2-3/8 inches for the cowl and 1-3/4 inches for the doors, I made them snug so no water has a chance to get through there. The holes for the plastic retainer pins were 9/64 of an inch, 1/8 inch was a little too tight.

The harness has to go up through that round hole then through a smaller hole above that then turn towards the front and keep it above all the other wires, speedometer cable and cruise vac line, two harness wire bundles with the door locks. Just trying to feed that taped up stiff bundle of wires through and turn all those corners was a lot of fun, be a lot easier with help and some grease.
There is no way I could see to get it above the pedal support without cutting the connectors off or tearing the dash apart.
I kept it high above the fuse panel then dropped down and went through the support above the column then up and across the dash against the firewall just below the windshield. I took out the glove box liner and pushed a coat hanger through behind the defroster ducts then taped the harness ends to it and slowly pulled it through while feeding it a little at a time from the other end, lucky I have long arms.
I just have to fasten the wires and put it all back together now, repair a few rollers (got the parts today) and cut the holes for the lock switches in the front door panels.
I'm guessing they go in the inset woodgrain panel in front of the square access hole?

That switch looks like a pretty good match Rob, glad it worked out. I can't remember the last time I used those other three switches in my goat.

Allan

I still can't get bigger pics to upload as attachments? Can I ask how did you do that one of the switches Rob?

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3088297802_7e56b25cb7_m.jpg3088294404_7c4a4df2bd_m.jpg

Lady72nRob71

Allan,I am now glad that my harness runs under the carpet! It sounds like you are having more fun than I would like!
Now I did run my lock harness under the dash, but that was only 3 straight cables - easy enough.

Good pics of the boot holes. I guess i will have to pull the doors off this spring to install them. Need to do hinge rebuilds anyway...
Are you using the OEM type boots?

Do you get errors about your pictures being too big? If so, set your camera to take a smaller size image. Each of my pictures are about 1MB in size, small enough for the "manage attachments" software to convert and large enough to see details.
Yea, those switches are not bad for 10 bucks apiece.

Bluevista

The boots are stock GM that were on the harness. The elderly gentleman sold me lots of parts with the car, either that or unload them all. There were more in the garage, filled my van in the background of the pic below with the parts and had the car transported.

Thanks for the tips on the pics Rob, I think it is set for large images, they are huge full size.

I know how to do these pics.




That's my wife talking to the guy and saying how much she likes the car, not much haggling after that. She convinced me to buy it too.
I think she knows cars better than me.
She really doesn't work on cars but can spot parts a mile away at swap meets or tells me I just walked by them, I hate that.

Finished the wiring up today and everything checks out okay so far. I have no idea what the harness is out of but there is a lot of extra power door lock wire and a feed for rear lighters? along with the power seat feed so maybe a full size.
I just have to put in the driver's door regulator, replaced the rollers today. It's tricky getting the front in because it won't fit past the front glass track/guide with the motor on it and it's under tension from the assist spring when you swing it into place. GM has one strategically placed hole for one motor bolt so you can get the regulator bolted in then bolt in the motor. You can then unbolt the regulator that is kept from springing back by the motor gear and get in the other two bolts.

They did have engineers that figured these things out, those holes in different places all over inside of the doors are are actually there for a reason.

Allan

Lady72nRob71

Wow - so THAT is where all the Olds parts are - up north!
Finding old cars and parts here is tough. So few places spread WAY out with lots of horrible traffic and bad areas to go through...

Remember, the holidays is a time to SHARE!

It is also hard to find women here who shares either a good interest or better yet, KNOWLEDGE about old cars. Many that I meet cannot believe what I have spent on a 36 year old car. Oh well; that is why i am not married, either!

The reg setup in your VC is quite different than the coupe and 'vert'.
I hope I have good luck with it, but will not find out until spring when I do the doors.

I will prolly get the repro boots from Fusick, as good used ones may be difficult to find.

oldsconv

Lady Rob... - - Any interest in trading the rounded 70 and earlier switches?. Coincidentally, the PW set I got from a junkard was from a 71 and has the square switches. I have the full set used - 3 of the singles and 1 of the 4 gang switches for 71 and up. I am putting this PW set in my 70 SX and could use the correct rounded switches and would trade my square ones.

Also, just to clarify on the large door jamb holes - the 2 inch for door and 2.5 inch for jamb are correct for the factory wiring boot, not sure about repro boot. ALSO, on the door and the jamb, you will see 3 factory dimples running vertically. The center one is the center of the 2 or 2.5 inch hole and the outer ones can be drilled with 1/8" or so bit and is for screws or push fasteners to hold the boots on.

Lady72nRob71

Well, had I not sent those rounded ones back already, i would have considered your offer! I did get a 150 credit for them, so I went with it.
It was just a little shy of the cost of buying a set of repro square ones.
However I may consider buying yours anyway just to have some spares.
PM me and lets see what you have.

To your advantage, the rounded switches are made by many different companies and are easy and cheap to find repros of. Chev parts suppliers may offer better deals, as they are more common.

Those are some HUGE holes just to run a few wires through! Why this big I wonder... 1" would have been plenty! I like the idea of MORE METAL...
And don't worry, I will not even pick up a saw until I have the boots in my hands. This is based on my routine luck...

Bluevista

Measure twice and cut once.

I just finished up the driver's door regulator on the Vista and secured all the wires, ran a final test and everything actually works.

Even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while.

Allan

Lady72nRob71

Me: Measure twice - TWICE and cut once.

Glad your progress went smoothly. I will be starting in the rear left quarter this week, if my neighbor is available to hold the window up.

I will be the one to test the blind squirrel theory.

Bluevista

Did you see the nut the squirrel found?.. No?...well neither did the Squirrel.


I know one guy who doesn't even measure, just uses stick scraps and marks them to length. The numbers don't change, just hope you don't mix up your sticks.

I used a piece of clothesline and looped it under the window through the door and tied it to the top of the window frame, but without frames that may be a little tough.

Just tie it to a tree branch or ceiling joist.

Allan