JCMC64

Motor is a 455 on a original 350 chasis setup - w\ 350 frame mounts.
New Mounts -Part # 2261 mounts for this application.

Motor was sagging roughly 3\8" on one side - 5\8" on other.
I discovered this when I got a new 71-72' shroud and the fan was scraping lower side of shroud.

Car was 70% through a restore when I bought it. I assumed motor mounts were new because the engine has been completely rebuilt costing Orig owner big $$. So guy definitely would put new engine mounts on with new engine, right???

Wrong -

I checked the mounts and Driver side was really crushed.
Passenger side had completely come apart, but not collapsed as much.
(wait to you see the pics of one of them, P.O. put small bolts through it to hold together...yikes!)

Picked up new Anchor 2261 mounts for $3.45 at Advanced auto locally.

1) Jacked up front of car and put on stands
2) Dropped starter
3) Removed motor mount bolts off mount
4) Method I used to lift motor off mounts was to Jack up motor with 2x4 lifting motor one side at a time.
Placed 2x4 directly on block. Worked like a charm.

5) removed the mount through the space created by jacking the block up
6) dropped new mount in - very easy if you lift motor up enough
7) put engine side bolts on first and tightened snug
8) Lowered jack w\ 2x4 to align up long frame mount bolt
9) Torqued all bolts
10) dropped 2x4 completely lowering motor fully (this step I still ?...should I have dropped engine fully off 2x4 before torqing? It was mostly unloaded but not 100%)
11) repeat on other side.
12) Lowered car off jacks

Took about 2.5-3 hours to do.


Only issue I had was one mount would not align - the mount holes with the engine block threads.
I replaced it with the other new 2261 mount and it worked fine.
I compared the two new mounts and the holes were definitely off on one of them by about 1\8th.
But mis drilled mount worked perfect on the other side...strange.

The new mounts really lifted the motor up 5\8 inch on the driver side, and 3\8 inch on passenger side.
Now my fan no longer scrapes, and is much more centered within the shroud.

THE PROBLEM:
--Fan hitting shroud and off center
--Headers hitting frame

507OLDS

Something still sounds goofy.Your fan shouldn't hit the shroud,even with the engine sagging like that.If you use the 455 mount with the 350 frame pad,then the engine actually sits even higher than it should.Is it possible that the previous owner already put 455 frame pads in it,but used the 350 engine mounts?That would drop the enginelower than normal,if you could even get the holes to line up.

oldsguybry

Yea , Joe will tell ya you cant mix and match You either use the SB pad and mount or the BB pad and mount , don't mix .

Allan R

Great write up. Thought you had forgotten our addiction to pics till I got to the bottom line..... looking forward to seeing the images of your struggle.

joe_padavano

I had exactly this problem with a 2328 mount. A die grinder fixed the problem by slotting the hole. The fact that yours fit one side and not the other is just a coincidence of manufacturing tolerance stackups.

JCMC64

It has the 350 frame mounts. I used the pic Joe P posted of how to tell the different frame pads apart.


Easy to tell as 350 frame pad is only one that has that extended lower tab along with the ridges and smaller hump (Type 3)

I researched this whole thing for a couple days before I started, reviewing all the old post on it. Many members had the same issue with fan scrub and
the new mounts fixed it. Now Im included in that group.

The old pads on this car are the exact 2261 style as the new ones. From what I understand, especially from all Joe's input on this in so many threads he commented on, the 2261 is the 350 mount. So old ones were the 350 mounts.

I also have the larger 19" or 19.5" fan (hard to measure as my fan has the slightly curved fan tips, not straight like many Ive seen.) So clearance is tight ti begin with.

I got to download all the pics, and resize them. Will do this w\e.

Thanks for all the comments.
Jim

507OLDS

OK.I thought you used 455 mounts with the 350 frame pads.

zodiacblueS

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I just replaced the original mounts in my '73 BB as part of my rebuild, but forgot the heat shields (pic attached). I even cleaned them up and shot the with some hi-temp paint. I may have to do the 2x4 / jack process like JCMC but was looking for feedback if they are really necessary? The originals were black mush, but after 40 years I wasn't suprised. Thanks for any feedback.

JCMC64

Motor mounts were sagging causing engine to sit real low.

Notice how bad the Driver side pad height had shrunken and was squished\collapsed



Over all the height had dropped approx 5\8".

JCMC64

Checkout the comparison of the new mount to the old driver side one, and the rigged passenger side mount by PO.



Obviously the guy ran out of money real bad to put this garbage back in on his restore!!!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Great write up, thanks, i will be replacing my mounts very soon.

JCMC64

New Mounts

JCMC64

After mounts are out (lifting motor up with jack and 2x4),
Here is the 350 frame mount




New Pads in place:








Notice below pic where the header is now off the frame, but dent and rust remain!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

That's really impressive, do you have a picture of where you places the 2x4 on the engine to jack it? I'm guessing you didnt jack off the oil pan?

JCMC64

Dramatic clearance gains, and Headers now have so much more space.

Gained the 5\8" back I lost.





Fan now lines up much better because engine was leaning so far to the Drivers side.
Scraping fan is gone, but still need to modify slightly more to my ultra **** demands! (Pic soon)

New Header clearance:







Headers got a full finger + of clearance now.

BTW - these headers will get replaced at some point. They've seen their better days.

JCMC64

Hey Tony,
No not off the oil pan, off the block itself. You can get at it in several places. (including off the oil pan side rails where the oil pan bolts are. One fella
said he did it off the block\Head pad where the code is. That pad area is on each side of block.)

Do one side at a time, after you remove the long frame pad bolt. I personally removed all the mount bolts, then jacked up one side at a time.
I estimate I lifted engine maybe about 1.5" or so on each side to get that sucker out.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Great! Thanks for the tip. I'm not rebuilding my engine yet, BUT, i definitely want to tighten up my oil pan (which i need to drop my starter for anyway) and at 5 bucks a motor mount, it's preventative maintenance.

I think this would be alot easier than renting an engine crane, unbolting the carb, etc etc.

JCMC64

It is pretty straightforward, though with my car there are always surprises.

Just put front end on jacks, and then use lift under the engine block with 2x4 vertically under one side at a time. I had to drop my starter to get at driver side mount. But I am also rerouting the battery cable the way it should be, so it didnt matter. Passenger side is a snap.

Allan R

Jim. That's a great write up and photo documentation. When you were lifting the engine, did you take out the other frame pad bolt at the same time so there would be less chance to damage any trans seals? I know 1.5" isn't much but prolly enough to create some torque stresses. Just asking cause I haven't done this and your methods intrigue me!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Agreed, i find this really interesting, it makes me want to change my motor mounts...

They have them at advanceautoparts for a bit under 4 dollars a pop for the 2261 anchors.

Now... should i replace the timing chain... or risk it... i dont have a harmonic puller...

Allan R

YA!!! Go Tony!!! You know you waaannnnnnnaa!! OMG this is so much fun.....Puller? borrow one from work..... CT near you might loan you one on the loaner program or is that only partsource? Does advance have a loaner program??? Hang on I'll look that up.......Hmm, looks like advance is the same as Otterzone and Partsource. Ph them and ask if they have loaners.

Caveman-455

WOW after looking at these pics i can tell that my motor mounts for my boat are completely crushed !!! (i was wondering why i couldnt get the EX off !! haha)


so if i read this correct the motor mounts are only $4 a piece ? :-/

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Check autozone.com less than 4 bucks each.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

That means I'll have to do water pump too .........

AHHHHHHHH!!!!

JCMC64

Advanced auto had them for $3.29.


Alan, yes I took out both frame pad bolts.
But it wouldnt of matter on mine, as Im guaranteed something will go wrong regardless! I think my leak is actually at the speedo cable. I saw a write up on that somewhere, I think it was warrant officer who did his in his rebuild thread. Maybe the pressure on the cable from jacking the car, and then the motor on top of it?
Bad O ring seal there? I got that and the broken pulley bolt I found during this one as my extra homework-yea!!


Got to give a shout out to Joe P on the motor mounts fix. When I researched this, his write ups in the old post were very valuable!!

midrange

There was a thread a while back about header installation that had someone using 350 mounts with a 455 engine.
What is the advantage of doing that?

Now, I MAW look at mine since the car is on stands........

It never ends. LOL

midrange

double tap

JCMC64

If you have an original 350 car with 350 frame pad mounts where there at one time used to be a 350 engine in the car, you must use the 350 engine mount on the 350 frame pad. Cant use 455 engine mounts on 350 frame pads. Learned this from Joe P and others here.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Why dont we just all do our motor mounts and be done with it! Before prices go up!

Allan R

Hmmm, at 4.00 per side I can afford to wait... But you know me. I'll go buy them and keep em in storage till I'm ready. So your saying I should do my water pump and timing gears/chain when you do yours? I think I need to do a rebuild instead of little by little. Need to do a compression test, but I'd bet that I'm looking at 125-135 per cylinder right now. Purty low.....A can of 'Restore' will help for a short while.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

You know Al, i think a rebuild is not far in the future for me either.

My car drips a coupe drops a day. Nothing major, but as you said, i might just go under there with a tube of RTV and try to seal it up so my car can pass inspection. (it would be so much easier if i could actually drive the car places)

I've never put anything in my crankcase, i was too worried it would gum up my valve train. I haven't done a compression test on my car in a long while. Am i supposed to do it while hot engine or cold?

507OLDS

I run solid mounts,even in my stock restos.They can't sag that way.We weren't blessed with a good motor mount design.Back in the mid 90's,I would go through 2 or 3 stock rubber mounts on the driver's sides each summer.They don't like modern power very much.By the time I built the 72,I wasn't even going to try them.
I run urethane transmission mounts.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

p/N?

wafpdemt

hi i got a 71 holiday coupe and i am trying to figure out why my motor sits so low in the well it didnt have a fan shoud when i got it but i found one out of a wreck installing it was not fun i had to cut the bottom half off in order for it to clear the fan the fan sits about 3,5 inches below the bottom of the radiator its driving me crazy need help

joe_padavano

Well, obviously the factory was able to install the shroud without cutting it, so you have a different problem that should have been fixed before you hacked up the shroud. The fan should not hang below the radiator, either. It sounds like either you have bad motor mounts or the trans mount is incorrect and too high or the fan is the wrong one.

Greg Rogers

My oil pan was actually hitting on the crossover and still the original fan wasn't hitting the shroud on my 71 Cutlass. I replaced these mounts in '97 or so and the collapsed that much since then. I replaced them with the cheap ones you guys are talking about at auto zone, etc and ok for now. I have heard the newer ones are nowhere near as good as the older ones. I will keep a eye on them. I'll bet they will need to be replaced every couple years or so.

joe_padavano

Well, the readily available ones are Chinesium...

Note that oil and grease on the rubber mounts will accelerate deterioration.

wafpdemt

ok i understand i should not have had to cut the shroud but it was the only way it would fit
my oil pan does not touch nor do my headers and the fan is the right size and the trans mount is the right one granted the left header only is about a 1/4 inch off the frames not sure if i have the right towers heck i aint sure what year this motor is it has a #8 on the heads it is a 4bbl i know after running the numbers that it is a 71 cutlass holiday coupe built in lansing mi and that it is a v8 car so now i am still running the rest of the number i have found figuring out the paint color

Larrys'66

My friend had been warning me about buying replacement parts throughout my rebuild project. As usual, he was right...

Before I placed the 455 into my car, I thought I would be proactive and bolt fresh motor mounts on so I didn't have to think of it for a while. I wish I would have seen this post first.

For me, the mounts were way too high and the mounting bolt holes were 1 inch away from lining up. I lifted each side of the engine and put the used set back in place, fortunately they are in good shape. The motor lined up perfectly, and the bolts slid right in.

My lesson was learned and as a reminder, I got to touch up all of the scratches in my engine paint from the jockeying around. Foreign replacement parts are bad news...

joe_padavano

The problem isn't that you bought replacement parts, the problem is that you bought the wrong ones. The difference between 2261 and 2328 motor mounts will be just about one inch difference in the bolt hole location. The correct replacement mounts would have gone in with no problems. Once again, the mounts need to match the frame pads, NOT the block.