1968ragtop

I dropped in a rebuilt 455 w a rebuilt th400, got it back together and fired the motor up.... only to see 7PSI on the oil pressure guage. I think I'll try another oil pressure guage but if that isn't it I'm thinking there is an internal enjine issue!

Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks

gregvm

Sounds like somebody forgot to install the oil galley plugs at the ends(front and/or rear) of the lifter oil rails.....

Greg

firefrost gold

Did you prime it first? If so did it prime good with no fanfair?

1968ragtop

I did prime the oil pump before starting the motor and thought it was fine, but apparently not.

I have a feeling my enjine builder installed standard bearings on the bottom end with a crank that was turned .010 But I won't know until the motor is pulled and dis assembled.

Good thing I had the motor professionally re built!

On a side note I picked the motor up on a friday and the business was closed the next monday.... no warranty!

RAMBOW

Does your Oil Pressure rise with the RPMs?

if Oil pressure comes up to say 25 or so under a decent RPM load, i'd say run it & see if it lives.

If it does't come up at all, then you have problems. sucks about the shop closing & no guarantee...

1968ragtop

It gets worse from there. He charged me more than the original quote, telling me his cost on the pistons was $85 each (for just a cheap cast piston) I priced them out since and there probably 1/2 that price. the warranty was supose to be 3 year instead there is no warranty. Now the motor needs to come apart.

This guy is a life long olds guy, and I've known him for almost 30 years!

I think there might be some pay back coming his way!

Rickman48

Well, you can be upset about not enough pressure, which is correctable with $$, or thankfull you got your motor back before he closed - but I'd still find him!!
We've had a '65 400 numbers matching motor 'disappear' when a guy got evicted, and he's got more people looking for him - their cars were crushed!!!
Karma will get him!

gregvm

I would try priming by turning the oil pump driveshaft with a 5/16 socket. If it wont pump up to at least 30-40 by hand then you have a real problem. .010 oversize would do it
Greg

442scotty

Let us know who this guy is so no one else gets burnt...maybe my view is a little extreme but you should probably shut it down and take it out before any damage occurs...it could be something simple or not..same thing happened to me in calgary a few years back when a well know builder closed their auto division...go through it from top to bottom...in Calgary Precise engine has done lots of olds...davenport should be ok as well...

1968ragtop

I'm starting to lean toward a plug missing from the oil galley lifter rails as was mentioned. When I prime the oil pump with a drill I can see a large volume of oil spraying on the oil pump drive. There would need to be a 3/8" to 1/2" perfectly round hole on the drivers side of the motor at about the level of the camshaft (roughly) to produce this. Any thoughts on this? If this is the case how do access the plug? can you get to it from just dropping the pan?? Thanks for any info!

gregvm

You have to remove the engine and flywheel/flexplate to gain access to the galley plug at the rear. The right side plug is just that....a pipe plug. However, the left one is recessed back in the block and has a .040" hole in it to lubricate the distributor drive gear. Then a small "freeze" plug to seal it to the outside.
FRONT oil galley plugs are accessed by removing the timing cover/chain.
Same deal,only backwards. Right plug has a .040" hole to lube chain/fuel pump cam,left one is solid.

Soulds like your distrib plug is MISSING, with that much oil flowing in that area. I'd cut the oil filter open as well,to check for bearing damage from lack of oil.

Good luck
Greg

1968ragtop

So the rear plugs are in the belhousing area behind the fly wheel? If so, then that probably is not the problem. What distributor plug are you talking about? Where is it located? and how do I access it? Thanks for any info

svnt442

If you look at the back of the block there are two small freeze plugs. If you remove those you will have access to the oil galley plugs.

This is how the front should look:

DSCN0155.jpg

The rear will be very similar with the holes on both sides of the cam.

1968ragtop

OK, I'm picking this up now. As has been stated it sounds like the plug that lubes the distributor drive is MISSING. THANKYOU for explaining this to me, its hard to wrap my head around this without seeing it, but due to your explanations I think I know now. I am a little concerned for the motor being started with very little oil pressure though!

1968ragtop

So I beleive the culprit has been found thanks to you guys. Now my question is what should be checked on this motor while it is out? It was run with 7psi oil pressure on the guage for probably 20 or 30 seconds Should I inspect main and rod bearings? cam and cam bearings? I'm thinking piston and rings should be ok??

blueRAYwhale

same deal happened to me with my TH400...sucks. really does sound like some internal oil leak, plugs, barings, something. probably hasn't damaged anything, yet. maybe the plugs could be put it, or you could check the barings. maybe a shop would take-on the job. some dude that worked assembling/testing olds motors back in the 70's said that they would run the engines with no oil to see how long it would go. said the olds. ran for 33 minutes on average without oil, who knows.

MDchanic

A newly rebuilt motor with well oiled bearings should not be damaged by 20-30 seconds of running with low oil pressure, provided that it really was that long and not much longer.
The question is how much pressure was getting to the bearings. If it was 7psi, then no problem at all. If it was less, or none, thenthat brief time should still be okay, but just barely. If you could open it up and look at s bearing, you'd have some peace of mind.

By the way, what was wrong?

- Eric

1968ragtop

I havn't taken it apart yet, too busy right now, but I'm sure there is at least one plug missing from the oil galley. It did have 7 psi of oil pressure (new auto meter mechanical guage) and the fitting is at the front of the motor at the top, so I'd say maybe more pressure at the bottom of the motor and maybe less at the rockers, but thats just a guess.

1968ragtop

Ok, I'm looking to get back to working on this motor. I have the original 350 in my shop, I pulled the frost plug in the bellhousing and the plug in the oil galley in front of the distibutor... there was NO orifice in the plug to lube the distributor....SHOULD THIS BE A REGULAR PLUG OR A PLUG WITH AN ORIFICE FOR LUBING THE DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE?? sorry don't mean to yell but this info is very important.... thanks.

507OLDS

The plug on the driver's side should have a small orfice to lube the distributor gear.

1968ragtop

Brian, thanks for verifying that. So the plug I pulled out of my 68 350 is the wrong one for that motor (no hole)??

ah64pilot

There are two plugs in the back of the engine...the driver's side plug has a .040" hole in it, the passenger side has NO hole. If you pull the driver's side plug and cannot see a hole in it, try using a paper clip to clean the middle of the plug until you can see it. It may have just been gunked up.

1968ragtop

The plug I took out of the 68 350 does not have a hole in it (drivers side behind a frost plug) Where can I get one of these plugs??

MDchanic

You can just drill a hole in it - there has been some debate over the precise optimal size, but the stock 0.040" should be fine.

- Eric

1968ragtop

what size of drill bit would give me .040" thanks

MDchanic

http://www.physics.ncsu.edu/pearl/Tap_Drill_Chart.html

Just google "tap drill chart" to find more if you like.

Looks like a #60 drill is 0.040".

- Eric

ah64pilot

Dremel bits go that small if you don't want to buy a whole set. I bought a 5 bit dremel set for under $20 and it worked fine.

1968ragtop

OK, I finally got around to working on the car again, pulled tranny and fly wheel pulled frost plug installed plug with .040"hole drilled, primed oil pump... has lots of oil pressure. started motor, again has lots of oil pressure now. Hope the cam and lifters will be ok.

question 1. I'm going to start with petroleum based oil...what oil should i run in this motor? 10w30??

question 2. What should I set the timing at?

motor is a 455 9.5:1 comp. "C" heads, performer intake and carb, comp cam 262H 442 ex manifolds, HEI ignition

Thanks for any info.

blueRAYwhale

that would be a good choice, or some 10 W 40. timing...hmmm maybe 8 or 10 degrs. BTDC. seems like timing is more representative than actual. like enough advance to crank/start easy, good performance, acceleration, fuel economy, don't overheat. ususally i mess around with it and a vaccum gauge, noticed a couple degrs. don't make alot of difference. i think the vac. advance thingy makes a difference. i use the one from a S-10 pick-up, it don't have alot of total advance and it doesn't come in to quickly, but i run alot of initial, like 14-16 degrs. cuz i have a EGR equipped motor. i found a shop that uses a 4 gas analyzer to set things up, i'm going there soon.

ah64pilot

1. http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/brk.aspx

2. 35* total timing or less. For a stock HEI it's usually between 12-14 BTDC.

**Despite what others make think, uh hem, timing plays a crucial role for you engine. Timing can make it difficult to start or a dream to cruise. It can make power and it can cause detonation. It is not something I "get close" with. It's up to you how you want to treat your new engine, but I would know exactly where my timing is both at idle, and at WOT. Total timing in excess of 35* on street gas can be the death of your engine, don't play Russian roulette.

1968ragtop

right now I'm running a heavy weight rotella recomended by the enjine builder, after the cam is broken in I', thinking of going to a 10w40 petroleum based oil if you have any recomendations let me know!
Thanks

442scotty

Im using Joe Gibb synthetic 10w30 high zinc oil from Mopac in Calgary in my 455 (similar engine specs to yours)......I had my HEI recurved and using 10 degrees initial timing...car runs well... never goes over 195 degrees even yesterday in heavy slow traffic...

If you have been reading the other threads of engine issues I strongly recommend setting your carb using an air fuel ratio guage or an exhaust gas analyzer...keep an eye open for detonation issues and consider getting your HEI professionaly recurved to your engine/vehicle specs...could save you a lot of grief...this is from my own experiences...

Chesrown 67 OAI

I've been using DIESEL motor oil 15w40 in my street 67 400 motor because of the increased zinc content. But now that they have even further reduced the zinc content in the "Rotella" and other diesel rated oils, I believe its almost imperative to use a zinc additive to you oil, such as ZDDP! The zinc has been removed from standard motor oils because its properties ruins/defeats the purpose of the catalytic converter on the newer cars. If you dont have one ---- you can safely use the hi-zinc oils or the additives. MOO!

ah64pilot

YES! Get away from Rotella, it is no longer the high zinc oil it used to be. Now that diesel engines run catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters Shell Rotella had to conform to stay a competitor in the diesel market.

Spend the money on an aftermarket oil like the Joe Gibb or Amsoil. Here is a link to the Amsoil I run after the break in period http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx

oldcutlass

I use valvolene racing oil, its readily available at the auto parts store!! Oreileys also has a zddp additive on the shelf that I add when my oil gets about 1/2 quart low. I think STP has zddp in it also!

1968ragtop

So I finally got the car back together and running, just took it for the first drive tonight. Seems to run good, but seems like a bit of a dog. Once I get the timming set right maybe it will come to life a bit more, motor is not broke in yet either.

Distributor is an HEI from a smogger vac advance is capped.

How important is it to recurve the distributor??

Motor is a 455 fully rebuilt 9.5:1 compression "C" heads comp cam 262H performer intake and carb 442 ex. manifolds

ah64pilot

Recurving the distributor will help overall performance but isn't going to be the make or break point of the performance. Recurve is really just changing advance bushings and springs so that the advance comes in at a different rpm (higher or lower depending on the weight of the springs). The bushing will change the amount of mechanical advance the distributor is allowed to give.

You can get an HEI advance curve kit for really cheap at almost any parts store. When I ran HEI's I usually used the medium weight springs with good results. For now, if you want it to run better I would get your initial timing set around 12-14 degrees initial advance.

1968ragtop

Thanks for the info, I was going to try set total timing at 35 total advance. The other problem I have is my carb is probably way too small it is a performer carb 600 cfm
I want to change it, probably go with a performer 750 carb.

ah64pilot

35 is the most I would put on it with 93 pump gas. If you put 35 total, then look at what the initial works out to be you can adjust the HEI mechanical advance bushing so that you will have more or less initial advance. For a mild build it should be around 12-14 initial with 21 mechanical advance (33-35 total).

Your carb is a little small, but not so small that the car is suffering greatly. You will see a difference with the 750 and they aren't going to break the bank.

1968ragtop

This car has pretty lame gears to which is not helping. I thought they were 308s but they might be 273s which will really kill the performance. I'd like to go to 342 or 373 posi rear.