wmachine

Okay, moving a thread that changed to the subject of cruise control:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tml#post202994


Don't have numbers for combined options (unless they are exclusive).
Okay, now cruise definitively is a relatively rare option.
Approx 2.1% of the 442s had cruise. Highest % was in the Cutlass Supreme Series at approx 6.5%
Overall in the F-85 lines, it as approx 1.7%.
V-8 and auto trans required for cruise.

wmachine

That's pretty interesting. Please explain the data what you mean with the different TH400 models.

stlbluesbrother

My car, 1970 Cutlass Supreme, has cruise control and factor a/c. I'm not sure how to prove it, but I think the cruise control is original. However, the turn signal stem has a black **** as opposed to the chrome colored one I've read about.

If anyone has a pic, or better yet, willing to sell a 1970 cruise/turn signal stem, please send a private message. Thanks.

stevengerard

and if someone has a second one let me know

Bluevista

Are you talking about the black on the very end like the shifter?
It took me forever to find a halfway decent one for my '71.
I know some had lengthwise grooves in the chrome end piece but I'm not sure what year.


On the other deal...I've never heard of cruise control transmissions?
Need some hard facts on paper to back that one up.
You could get cruise dealer installed, I don't think they switched transmissions when they did it?
If it is the case I have a rebuilt ultra-rare cruise control edition turbo 400 sitting in my barn.

A couple of pics of my lever.

66ninetyeightls

Transmissions have nothing to do with cruise control.

BlackGold

The difference probably was just the speedometer cable hook-up. I believe some models (big cars) got their speedometer cable feed from the left-front wheel, depending on whether or not they had cruise. Someone with a big-car assembly manual should be able to confirm or deny. Or maybe the cruise control tranny difference was some minor internal difference. It could be something as simple as changed valving to prevent it from downshifting as easily on uphills, which is something an 80-year-old grandma might find annoying while on cruise control. That is speculation on my part, but I'm telling you that there were different transmissions for cars with cruise control. (No, I'm not saying that the transmission had anything to do with how the cruise control operated.)

Kurt, I didn't explain very well the serial number thing. What I'm talking about is two articles published in the 1970 Service Guild bulletins. These were near the end of the model year. Each told the technicians about some minor design change made to the TH-400 transmissions. The articles list the exact serial number for each type of TH-400 at which the design change occured. Since the serial numbers were sequential, this gives us a good idea of how many of each TH-400 were built in 1970. If you don't have the Service Guild bulletins, let me know and I'll provide more detail.

Thanks for the percentage numbers for cruise control. It's good to see confirmation of my estimate.

66ninetyeightls

No those full sized cars got their speedo from the left front wheel wheter they had cruise or not. If they had cruise they had a different two piece speedo cable.

stevengerard

BlueVista you are correct, that stalk is 71 and later the fluted plastic chrome one is 66-70 though very few cruise control units were sold before 70 and as just stated hardly any in 70 - wow just 2.1% of 442s of course if they tried it before they ordered it they wouldn't have bought it, its like a sleeping grandpa driving the car - set it to 55 miles per hour and the car slows to 47 then speeds up to 59 then slows to 47 then speeds up to 59 then...........

Joffroi

My 70 SX has cruise control, this is what it looks like under the hood

stevengerard

my diaphram looks different than yours but the mechanical part on the right of your photo behind the alternator looks the same as mine.

stlbluesbrother

My turn signal stem is identical to that posted by Bluevista and the diaphragm within the engine compartment is the same as Joffroi's.

Bluevista

1970-71 use the diaphragm/servo/power unit like Joffroi, mine's the same.
Stevengerard has a '72 and up servo, pretty sure both use the same bracket, the transducers are completely different from 71-72.
The 1969 servo was different than both of those, it's shaped a little more like the '72 version but has two mounting studs and the bracket is flat instead of having the step in it.

stevengerard

Ugh, interesting, there use to be an "original" W30 convertible in my neighborhood owned by the 2nd owner complete with window sticker and protect-o-plate we both had the same cruise diaphragm, of course I guess they both could have been replaced at some time. I guess its time to keep a look out for the 70/71 at swap meets.

BlackGold

A minor correction to my last post:
The Service Guild documents to which I refered were not known as bulletins but Product Training Manuals. The two relevant documents were dated July 1970 (identified starting serial numbers for TH-400s with a new governor screen assembly), and October 1970 (identified starting serial numbers for TH-400s with a new teflon oil seal ring).

For those who still don't believe that some cars used a different TH-400 if they had cruise control, check out the chart on page 98 of section 7 of your 1970 assembly manual. You'll see several references to K30, the option code for cruise control. An easy example is Delta 88 models with a 350 engine. Those with cruise received the OA transmission; those without received the OF transmission. Similar situation for 88s (and 98s) with a big block.

stevengerard

that's interesting but didn't all 442s with automatics come with an OG and W30s come with a OW trans whether they had cruise control or not

BlackGold

You're right, the A-bodies TH-400 selection didn't seem to be affected by cruise control. It's a B-C body thing. That's why I thought it might have something to do with the speedometer cable drive. I'm still suspecting that. I'm going to spend some time this weekend with a Parts Catalog and see if I can find the difference between, say, an OA and OF TH-400. I checked section 7 of the Chassis Service Manual last night and didn't see anything. Stay tuned.

BlackGold

OK, I spent far too much time with the April, 1976 edition of the Olds Parts Catalog. Despite what Craig said about all big cars (with or without cruise control) using the left front wheel for their speedometer, the parts catalog seems to prove that big cars with cruise control did indeed drive the speedometer cable from the TH-400, not the front wheel. Please remember, I'm talking about 1970 only here. It may be different for any or every other year.

Specifically, Group 4.343 calls out a Gear, transmission speedometer drive, part number 8623323 (18 teeth) as being used on 1970 TH-400 transmissions OD, OK, OL, OG, OP, OR and OW. Of significance is the fact that this includes the OK and OR models which were used for 88s and 98s with cruise control. Absent from the list is the OB, OC, and OF models, which were used for 88s and 98s without cruise control.

Group 4.338, Sleeve, transmission speedomoeter driven gear, calls out part number 1362294 (used with 34-39 tooth driven gear) for 1970 applications with K30 (cruise control) except F85 and Toro. In other words, for 88s and 98s with cruise.

Group 4.342, Cable and casing, transmission to C.C. regulator, calls out part numbe 6478124 for 1970 applications with K30 (cruise control) except F85 and Toro. In other words, for 88s and 98s with cruise. Likewise, these applications are not listed for the speedometer cable part numbers which is driven by the front wheel.

64Rocket

My '68 Cutlass "S" has factory cruise control. I need a good diaphragm. My button on the end of the turn lever looks similar, but has no name on it.

Gene

Bluevista

Nobody has a pic of an original 1970 turn signal/ cruise lever?

Are you sure those parts are original to the car 64Rocket?
These things are confusing.


That looks like a 70-71 servo and a 1972 and up transducer? Could be right, I have no info on '68.
The schematic from the parts catalog for a '69 F-85 uses the transducer like the 70-71 but the servo/bellows is different?

I know some Olds place is selling the 70-71 servo now, saw it awhile back somewhere.
I couldn't find one a few years back, searched around and figured out that 1980's Jaguar XJ6 and XJS models use the same one.
19 bucks at Rockauto.

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...parttype=11679

You have to use your old end plates and the spring inside, apply a small bead of silicone in the servo end plate grooves to seal them before you assemble it to prevent leaks, says to do in the service manual.

BlackGold

BlueVista, are you sure that the differences are divided by model year? I don't have my 1970 assembly manual in front of me right now, but I vaguely recall the cruise control pages making note of two different systems using different parts. This might have been related to different assembly plants?

6inarow

I have this picture from a 70 Cutlass with cruise. Sorry it's not a better picture. Can anyone confirm this is the right one from this picture? Thanks.

71 sienna supreme

^in a Row... You have the right one,, The curise Control switch on your cutlass is the same as the one on mine...

stevengerard

yes I agree that is the right one, and that car is loaded, convertible with cruise, tilt (notice the tilt lever is a fluted chromed plastic as well), console (no PRD on speedo) and hood lock. I think there was a question on what spot the top switch was depending on whether a car had cruise or not, early cars had the top switch all the way to the right and a space between the wipers, but most convertibles with cruise control that I have seen have wiper, top, cruise from left to right.

6inarow

This car is loaded. It's not mine though. Just a picture I had.

Bluevista

Mine is wipers, cruise, rear window, same switch as a convertible.
Everybody with '71-2 convertibles has a hard time replacing the top switch, always seems to be to the far right against the column.

It's very possible that different plants used different cruise parts.
I see all different set-ups, I think all the parts mix and match.
Still have to calibrate mine, goes five miles an hour slower than where you set it, holds the speed nice and steady though.

stlbluesbrother

My config is: wipers, cruise, top

stevengerard

I saw the elusive 70 cruise lever in person this weekend and even snapped a close up

stlbluesbrother

Good shot - it's the first close-up I've seen. Looks like that cruise stem has gotten some good use over the years. Was the button still present?

69ho aurora

That is the same turn signal lever used in my factory '69 setup (not that it makes it any easier for you to find for 1970). Completely different under the hood though. I saw a lot of the later style (with the black end) as dealer replacements in the earlier cars that were supposed to have this type already in the early 1980s.

stevengerard

no, the end button wasn't there though the guts of the button was, and yes it had plenty of usage. Funny how these cars are - this car looked all original to me - even the rust did and the owner has had it for years but told me it was repainted decades ago - looking at the fenders it has 71s on it, I was suprised.

Joffroi

I actually have that option in my car. I went ahead and took a bunch of pictures of them. You can see them here. Sorry for linking them to another site, it was just easy for me to re-size that way. Let me know if you want different angles on the option:

http://www.mysx455.com/2010/09/photo...ol-gallery.php

stevengerard

Thanks, can you take a picture of the back side of the diaphragm, I'd like to see if it is in fact the same as the 72's just with a double rubber diaphragm instead of a single one.

Joffroi

I'll try as soon as I get off work.

stevengerard

thanks, no hurry, that's for sure.

Joffroi

posted, gotta love those lunch breaks. Same link. Let me know if those worked out.

Bluevista

The '72 servo end plate is much bigger, the servo is totally different than the earlier versions, same bracket.
Rob posted everything you need to know about servos and cruise in general in his '72 cruise control install thread.


https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-control.html

Lady72nRob71

Your servo hose is cracked...

stevengerard

I was just thinking that the end plate may just be wrapped by the rubber of the 72 and newer while the 70 version rubber didn't go all around I'm going to check mine out and see what it looks like inside

stevengerard

Great thanks perfect shots between yours and Rob's post this will help a lot of us out.