4-speed wagons (65' or other years)

[RickSE]

Has anyone here ever seen a Muncie 4-speed Olds wagon? I talked to a guy a few years ago who owned a factory 4-speed 69' wagon but have never see or heard of any others. I'm mainly interested in 65's but also wondering if there are more out there of other production years.

I now own two factory built 4-speed f-85 wagons and am trying to figure how many they really built. The most viable number I've heard is less then 200 in 1965. My family is the original owners of my first car, a Lansing "L" code car, and now I just bought another one from the original owners, a Fremont car. Both are complete, original and very restorable.

[Oldsmaniac]

I have only seen a couple in pictures....a few years ago a 67 VC with factory buckets and 4spd...dont remember if it had a console....also many years ago saw an ad for a 67 for sale here locally...advertised as factory 4spd but not sure if it was a VC or Cutlass wagon.

[Olds64]

There is a 71 Vista Cruiser on Hemmings that has a 4 speed in it. However, it isn't original. It has been there for about a year. The owner restored it as a W-31 clone and wants a pretty penny for it. It is a cool car, just not many people out there that would want one I guess.

[Rallye469]

There's a '70 flat roof by me with a 4 speed.
He's got an F head 455 in it to...that part is not original though.

guy lives in Kingston, NY

[aliensatemybuick]

Originally Posted by RickSE

Has anyone here ever seen a Muncie 4-speed Olds wagon?

Yes, Rick, I remember well seeing your / your father's car on 442.com starting around the late 90s. Glad to hear you found another!

[joe_padavano]

Based on the factory ordering sheets, I don't believe bucket seats were available in the Vista. The 4 spd was definitely available, but with a bench. Note that the Olds factory Hurst shifter stick clears the bench seat just fine.

[Oldsmaniac]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

Based on the factory ordering sheets, I don't believe bucket seats were available in the Vista.

Thats what I thought however this car is what made me believe otherwise. I believe there was documentation of some sort in the ad but my mind remains open.

[Bluevista]

Joe is right and the 4 speed was available in all the A-body wagons, 3 speed was standard. I think you had to get the 455 to get the 4 speed in the later years. They actually used the 4 speeds for towing, not any racing aspirations. I used to see lots of 442's towing big airstream trailers and boats too. I've never heard of buckets available in any Olds wagon to the general public, seen a few special oddballs here and there. A good dealer could do lots of things and they installed all kinds of options after delivery, so who knows? They wouldn't be on any build sheets or broadcast cards if installed at the dealer though. If they did have them wouldn't there have been 5 and 7 passenger wagon designations?

Allan

[joe_padavano]

Originally Posted by amh555

...3 speed was standard.

Allan

In fact, the three-on-the-tree was the base transmission for the A-body cars, except for the 442, which came with the Ford... er, DEARBORN top loader three speed and floor shifter as the base trans.

[68Tom]

Here's one on eBay now. Pretty cool.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318

[Jamesbo]

Originally Posted by amh555

I've never heard of buckets available in any Olds wagon to the general public, seen a few special oddballs here and there.

Allan

Oddball here

Mine has buckets, center consol, tilt, tic toc,455, 15" SSII AND a "Tiger in the Tank" Ok, I admit it, I'm an Oddball

But it didn't come from the factory that way.

[wmachine]

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

In fact, the three-on-the-tree was the base transmission for the A-body cars, except for the 442, which came with the Ford... er, DEARBORN top loader three speed and floor shifter as the base trans.

Uh, not until some time in '66 that is. The toploader with the Hurst shifter was introduced in Feb '65 as the M-14 option. (Joe and I enjoy dualing details)

[wmachine]

4-speed wagons are pretty cool! Rick, I presume both of yours are '65s?
Is this your window sticker?

[Bluevista]

Originally Posted by 68Tom

Here's one on eBay now. Pretty cool.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...1%7C240%3A1318

That car is cool. Is that the powerful antenna on the top of the left rear quarter?
If so that's enough in itself for me to want the car.

I like the guy dogging the seller in the Q and A section.

[aliensatemybuick]

Originally Posted by amh555

That car is cool. Is that the powerful antenna on the top of the left rear quarter?
If so that's enough in itself for me to want the car.

I like the guy dogging the seller in the Q and A section.

Well, I think there are TWO guys who asked "questions"..one brought up a legit. issue regarding where the car was produced, which the seller politely acknowledged. The other guy was beng catty, of course; I'm not sure I am prepared to believe 100% it is a factory car, though I'm not quite doubting it either. I am reserving my right to be a skeptical enquirer. Those who see the built sheet would be in a better position to decide.

Certainly the engine is not original, and the seller kinda cleverly avoided saying so explicitly (Toronado "Line"?!). Its appears to be a Toronado engine if one is to judge based only on the paint on the valve covers)...of course the air cleaner came from somewhere else. The word "cobbled" comes to mind. Still, kinda cool.

[RickSE]

Originally Posted by wmachine

4-speed wagons are pretty cool! Rick, I presume both of yours are '65s?
Is this your window sticker?

Yes, that's my window sticker, from my dad's car.

After some tinkering I now have the second wagon running and drivable. Years of sitting outside had left the brake hydraulics dry and the gas tank full of crud but nothing that couldn't be fixed. This car has non self-adjusting brakes on all four wheels, something I've never seen. Most of the parts look original but I still haven't figured out if it came this way; I'd have to think not but don't know for sure yet. At first I thought the rear brakes were missing parts or had later model parking brake levers until I got to the front brakes and found the same setup, big star adjusters that lock into the springs and no adjust levers. The front clip comes off next for sheet metal work then I’ll put it back together and drive it while I start the restoration on my dad's car. No big surprises yet and it actually seems to run pretty good, motor was rebuild some time ago by the original owner’s son. The son got the car from his dad, drove it for a while then parked it with the intent to restore. I think he said his sister was responsable for the front end damage and that a mustang lost the battle. I need to thank Jim in Florida for turning me on to this car. Without his info I would have never known about the car. Thanks Jim.

I'll try to keep you guys posted with pictures of both cars if you’re interested. I redid my wife's 65 Convertible back to original a few years ago and will do the same with these cars but may 442 clone one.

Not sure what to think about the eBay 66’. The shifter boot looks fairly original with the rubber lip covering the boot mounting bracket but the shifter does not, since those boots only fit the factory round shifters. My original boot was the same way but none of the reproduction boots match with the lip. I’m betting it was like mine, a 330 4-speed and someone switched the motor. Cool car though, wish I had room.

[wmachine]

Very cool and rare car there, Rick. That's why I kept a copy of that window sticker!
Please keep us posted, I'm interested!
The brakes are interesting, possibly a difference in power/non-power brakes?
You definitely have 2 cars to compare! Post the info (data plate, etc) on the new one and we'll determine what we can.

Re the E-bay '66, from what I can gather, the 4-speed is legit, but the 425 isn't. I don't believe the shifter boot is original, but the shifter appears to be. '65 Olds A-bodies are the last year for the round handled Muncie 4-speed shifters. In '66 they went to the rectangular bladed Hurst shifters and handles, 442 and otherwise. Posting the correct boot.

[citcapp]

Interesting collection of Oldsmobiles. Send more interior pictures of the 4-speed

[RickSE]

I've been picking away at my #2 wagon in an attempt to make it drivable and then I'll start a full restoration on #1. I straightened the original front sheet metal and got it in sealer. After having problems with the carburetor getting plugged with crud I finally pulled the fuel tank for a good cleaning/stripping and now the car runs great.

[RickSE]

I'm still missing a few pieces of trim and need to decide what to do about the bumper. I've got 2 cores but both are too beat up for a driver. I'd like to get the entire car in sealer but I'll probably just touch it up so I can move onto #1.

Most of the interior on #2 was redone some time ago, all the panels have been recovered along with seats and headliner. The carpet is the only original covering left. The dash was painted black by the owner's son a while back. Both of the wagons are J-J? cars, Forrest Green in and out and would have had the same interior coverings. The only real difference I've found so far is that the #1 Custom Deluxe wagon has a lower piece of trim on the tailgate that #2 does not have.

[ent72olds]

Now, you just need to sell it to me....cheap!

[ent72olds]

Amazing you have 2 wagons the same color....yes, with the Forest Mist(J), you could have had green,dark green or fawn int. Post many more pics please.

[wmachine]

Originally Posted by Bluevista

Joe is right and the 4 speed was available in all the A-body wagons, 3 speed was standard. I think you had to get the 455 to get the 4 speed in the later years.
Allan

Originally Posted by joe_padavano

In fact, the three-on-the-tree was the base transmission for the A-body cars, except for the 442, which came with the Ford... er, DEARBORN top loader three speed and floor shifter as the base trans.

Now that this has been brought up again, I thought I'd add a few things:
4-speed Muncies were available in F-85 series wagons from '64-'69 only, and were available with any engine.

Right, Joe, '66-'69, but not in '65. The M14 was introduced in Feb '65 as an option with the 442 only.

And Owen Griesemer brought his '69 4-speed gold flattop wagon to the Nats this year. His father bought it new!

[lshlsh2]

Not Olds but a number of years ago saw a pontiac tempest wagon. It was a 4 speed. With the options it had someone wanted a GTO but the wife said we need a family wagon.
If I remember correctly
66
3dueces
4-speed Hurst
4.11 pos
heavy duty suspension
A/C
Had the orginal window sticker
Larry

[vista461]

I would love to have a 64 or 65 4 speed wagon

[WTony]

Originally Posted by wmachine

Now that this has been brought up again, I thought I'd add a few things:
4-speed Muncies were available in F-85 series wagons from '64-'69 only, and were available with any engine.

Right, Joe, '66-'69, but not in '65. The M14 was introduced in Feb '65 as an option with the 442 only.

And Owen Griesemer brought his '69 4-speed gold flattop wagon to the Nats this year. His father bought it new!

Dont know if anyone was at the Nationals from this board and may have seen Owen's wagon. Really cool story behind it. His father actually sold the car and Owen tracked it down and bought it back.

I had the pleasure of talking to him for some time during the weekend because my wagon was parked next to his.